Evil "Christian" Leaders (title corrected as per request)

  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Nov 20, 2009 7:08 PM GMT
    Evangelicals, Catholics: Gay Marriage Paves the Way to Incest


    http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=&sc3=&id=99256






  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Nov 20, 2009 8:51 PM GMT
    Title should be Evil "Christian" Leaders. There is nothing Christlike about these monsters...
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    Nov 20, 2009 8:58 PM GMT
    When gay marriage first became legal, I finally was able to call my sister and propose to her!
    Unfortunately, she had already accepted an engagement from my brother.

    Somebody suggested a triad, but that is so perverted.
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    Nov 20, 2009 9:01 PM GMT
    The thing that amuses me about all this is how christians seem to think that they are the only people in the history of the world who have been able to do ethics, as though the bible were the ONLY way of making decisions about right and wrong and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK icon_eek.gif

    hello? Anybody home?
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    Nov 20, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidThe thing that amuses me about all this is how christians seem to think that they are the only people in the history of the world who have been able to do ethics, as though the bible were the ONLY way of making decisions about right and wrong and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK icon_eek.gif

    hello? Anybody home?


    I think there have been examples of what happens when all thoughts of the divine have been abandoned. and none of us want to have those sort of experiences occurring again.

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    Nov 20, 2009 9:25 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Lostboy saidThe thing that amuses me about all this is how christians seem to think that they are the only people in the history of the world who have been able to do ethics, as though the bible were the ONLY way of making decisions about right and wrong and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK icon_eek.gif

    hello? Anybody home?


    I think there have been examples of what happens when all thoughts of the divine have been abandoned. and none of us want to have those sort of experiences occurring again.



    Oh so wrong

    (1) My point was not about "all thoughts of the divine" but rather about the conservative idea that the bible and the bible alone, as interpreted by "my" church (whether "my" church is Roman Catholic or Conservative baptist) can be the basis for ethical decisions. This is demonstrably wrong and yet is the basis of all the "slippery" slope arguments against gay marriage.

    (2) It is in itself far from obvious that "thoughts of the divine" are necessary at all in any shape, though I wasn´t actually arguing for this particular claim.
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    Nov 20, 2009 11:56 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    I think there have been examples of what happens when all thoughts of the divine have been abandoned. and none of us want to have those sort of experiences occurring again.


    Equally there are many examples of unbelievable cruelty and disgrace done solely in the name of the devine.

    Let me assure you that the devine has no place in my life and I've not raped, murdered or burnt anyone at the stake all week. Who'd have thought?
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    Nov 21, 2009 12:12 AM GMT
    makeumyne said
    Blackguy4you said
    I think there have been examples of what happens when all thoughts of the divine have been abandoned. and none of us want to have those sort of experiences occurring again.


    Equally there are many examples of unbelievable cruelty and disgrace done solely in the name of the devine.

    Let me assure you that the devine has no place in my life and I've not raped, murdered or burnt anyone at the stake all week. Who'd have thought?


    Absolutely! it cannot be denied that evil has been done it the name of God.

    it also cannot be denied that lots of, if even not more evil has been done in societies that were considered secular or by rulers who believed that they were not answerable to a higher power.

    the divine has every place in my life and i've not raped, murdered or burnt anyone recently either.
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    Nov 21, 2009 12:45 AM GMT
    Original sin:

    Wasn't it cruel and unjust punishment for god to cast Adam and Steve (me, wink) out of the garden of eden for merely eating an apple? One apple? OK, some people say the apple is a metaphor for sex. Is it fair to damn an entire species because two people got it on? Is there another metaphor for the garden of eden story that encompasses the irrational and vulgar punishment dished out by the god so many say they worship and adore? Or has this part been re-written?

    If god is the father of all, then he or she is what today would be considered an abusive parent.
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    Nov 21, 2009 12:59 AM GMT
    Well, as far as "Christians" using the Bible to form their own code of ethics, you have to also realize that the majority of people are, to be blunt, stupid. That being said, it's not surprising that many are unwilling to look just beyond what is written in the Bible to why something was written in the Bible in the first place.

    The very foundation of Christianity is one of love and the New testament makes exceedingly clear that "Love works no ill toward its neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Actions contrary to that are usually self evident and same sex unions are not antagonistic to that principle in themselves. Although any relationship can suffer from wrong motives, Scriptures like Galatians 3:28 make it clear that gender cannot be a dividing line.

    It's pretty much a matter of these people totally rejecting the foundational principles of Christianity that they purport to follow. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became as fools."
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    Nov 21, 2009 1:01 AM GMT
    I might point out that there are many examples in the Bible itself of non-believers behaving better than the believers. Though certain Christians may choose to believe they are better than the rest, their own Bible contradicts this.

    Right and wrong are what they are. One's religious faith doesn't change this.
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    Nov 21, 2009 1:19 AM GMT
    Lostboy said
    Blackguy4you said
    Lostboy saidThe thing that amuses me about all this is how christians seem to think that they are the only people in the history of the world who have been able to do ethics, as though the bible were the ONLY way of making decisions about right and wrong and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK icon_eek.gif

    hello? Anybody home?


    I think there have been examples of what happens when all thoughts of the divine have been abandoned. and none of us want to have those sort of experiences occurring again.



    Oh so wrong

    (1) My point was not about "all thoughts of the divine" but rather about the conservative idea that the bible and the bible alone, as interpreted by "my" church (whether "my" church is Roman Catholic or Conservative baptist) can be the basis for ethical decisions. This is demonstrably wrong and yet is the basis of all the "slippery" slope arguments against gay marriage.

    (2) It is in itself far from obvious that "thoughts of the divine" are necessary at all in any shape, though I wasn´t actually arguing for this particular claim.


    ah ok- i thought you were arguing for just that when you stated, "... and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK "

    becaue that is exactly what happens. ivan karazmov nailied it correctly when he said; "if God does not exist then everything is permitted." without curbing thoughts of the divine looking over the shoulder - all hell breaks loose
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Nov 23, 2009 2:56 AM GMT
    Will Catholic Bishops Start Denying Communion to Gay Marriage Supporters?

    http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/will_catholic_bishops_start_denying_communion_to_gay_marriage_supporters



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    Nov 23, 2009 1:06 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    ah ok- i thought you were arguing for just that when you stated, "... and that once you abandon it as an infallible book of instructions suddenly ANYTHING IS OK "

    becaue that is exactly what happens. ivan karazmov nailied it correctly when he said; "if God does not exist then everything is permitted." without curbing thoughts of the divine looking over the shoulder - all hell breaks loose


    wow. You are worse than my students.

    It is patently NOT TRUE that the only way of making ethical decisions is on theistic grounds. A cursory acquaintance with the history of ethics should make this clear. It is even further from the truth to suggest, as conservative christians do, that once you abandon the Bible then you have immoral societies. They may not have the SAME morality, but that´s quite a different thing.
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    Nov 23, 2009 2:29 PM GMT
    The problem here is the word "Christian". They are not a homogenous entity. There are plenty of gay-friendly churches and even gay-friendly denominations. [Not many of them are Catholic].

    The paradox of course is that their power is maximised if they present themselves as a homogenous entity, but by so doing they have to trample over those who disagree with them who are also Christian, and this conflict in fact weakens their power.

    What we're seeing is a power-struggle within the church for relevance and orthodoxy. Religions do not have a means for expressing and adjusting power to suit changing times, so they resort to ideological conflict as a proxy. The sad thing is we, the subject of their war, are by construction the ones who suffer.

    It is mean-spirited and deeply hypocritical. But they are a dying people; let them die.
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    Nov 23, 2009 2:45 PM GMT
    Once again hatred is being done in God's name. There is nothing Christian about this, there is nothing spiritual about this. This has an insightful agenda and reminds me of how Hitler got started.
  • trl_

    Posts: 994

    Nov 24, 2009 12:52 AM GMT
    TigerTim said

    It is mean-spirited ...But they are a dying people; let them die.


    Oh the hypocrisy contained in the space between twelve little words is sometimes staggering.
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    Nov 24, 2009 1:04 AM GMT


    icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 24, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    DrEric saidOnce again hatred is being done in God's name. There is nothing Christian about this, there is nothing spiritual about this. This has an insightful agenda and reminds me of how Hitler got started.


    I agree, and I wish people would realize that too.
  • MercuryMax

    Posts: 713

    Nov 24, 2009 1:12 AM GMT
    jarhead5536 saidTitle should be Evil "Christian" Leaders. There is nothing Christlike about these monsters...


    I wouldn't know, I've never met Christ. Perhaps he may have been like that. Perhaps not. I suppose time will tell.
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    Nov 24, 2009 1:12 AM GMT
    fizzle said
    TigerTim said

    It is mean-spirited ...But they are a dying people; let them die.


    Oh the hypocrisy contained in the space between twelve little words is sometimes staggering.


    It's mean spirited to wish that these intolerant bigots did not believe the things they do? How nonsensical!