House Of Numbers

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    Nov 24, 2009 7:11 AM GMT
    So I just got done watching this film and boy was it an awesome experience! My school was lucky enough to have this brand new award winning documentary come to campus along with the actual filmmaker so we could have a Q and A session after. After the movie there was an EXTREMELY intense debate about it. There were some microbiologists, immunologists, etc in the audience from my campus that were extremely closed minded and attacked the filmmaker extremely unprofessionally. The students were pissed and called out many of the professors. Some of the professors were being completely irrational and I was left decently offended by some of their comments. I can honestly say I have never been through such an intense/controversial situation.

    I was wondering if any of you have heard of this film or have seen it and have any opinions on it? It completely challenges the whole paradigm of HIV/AIDS and I dont see a problem with that. Maybe this is crazy talk but why not look into it? Why not challenge the status quo because maybe it is wrong, who knows? If no one challenged that the Earth was actually round would we still think its flat? Scientists thought they were crazy and look who was right. (I know the analogy may not be the greatest but the point is still challenging the status quo) Thoughts?
  • Latenight30

    Posts: 1525

    Nov 24, 2009 12:49 PM GMT
    Can't comment unless we know the film?
    Do you have a name?
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    Nov 24, 2009 1:54 PM GMT
    jprichva saidThoughts?

    Well, you haven't said HOW the film challenges the paradigm of HIV/AIDS. It sounds to me like it's another rehashing of those HIV doesn't cause AIDS theories that have been routinely debunked for over 25 years now, although they keep cropping up. If that's the case, of course the immunologists were offended---it means that what they've devoted their entire professional lives to has been a sham. Frankly, from what I know, these theories can be lumped into the same basket as black helicopters from the U.N.

    But maybe the film was about something else? I'm only guessing, because you really said very little.


    There's a preview of the film here, but it doesn't reveal too much substantive information:
    http://www.houseofnumbers.com/
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    Nov 24, 2009 2:38 PM GMT
    sorry I was kind of directing it to people that have seen the movie, if anyone has at all, to comment on it. It would take me forever to write about it on here and I wouldnt do a very good job of it. It has been traveling around to many colleges and film festivals so I'm sure others have seen it. It will be released to theaters soon.
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    Nov 24, 2009 2:52 PM GMT
    Well, the film is supposed to stir up controversy, so neither of are surprised at the reactions the OP describes.


    That said, we lived through the horror years, and maintain that not one single person that tests negative develops AIDS.

    Occam's razor.
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    Nov 24, 2009 3:02 PM GMT
    jprichva saidIt sounds to me like it's another rehashing of those HIV doesn't cause AIDS theories that have been routinely debunked for over 25 years now


    Right you are. Ben Goldacre has a little piece on this movie.

    Here are some choice quotes

    Ben GoldacreIt would take two months of columns to address all the bogus claims of this film, and that blizzard, perhaps, is the point of making it, with all the classic rhetorical devices that have been honed by Aids denialists and creationists over decades. It engages, for example, in repeated overstatement of marginal internal disagreements about the details of HIV research, to the extent that 18 doctors and scientists interviewed for the film have issued a statement saying that the director was “deceptive” in his interactions with them, that it perpetuates pseudoscience and myths, and that they were selectively quoted to make it seem as if they are in disagreement and disarray, when in fact they agree on all the important facts.


    Here is an especially poignant observation

    Ben GoldacreThere is an interview with Christine Maggiore, who talks about her difficult decision to go against medical advice by refusing Aids medication, medication, and how much better she felt as a result. What the film doesn’t tell you, as you shout at the screen, is that Christine Maggiore’s daughter Eliza Jane died of Aids and PCP pneumonia three years ago, at the age of three, and, as I reported nine months ago, Christine Maggiore herself died two days after Christmas 2008 of pneumonia, aged 52 (the film finally acknowledges her death in the last 2 seconds of the film, at the end of the lengthy credits, in small letters).


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    Nov 24, 2009 3:07 PM GMT


    lol, we'd really like to see news of an individual with untreated AIDS that tests neg. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 06, 2010 8:58 AM GMT
    ok, so I've never seen this film...but I can say this much...I know microbiology to a fairly good degree and HIV/AIDS is one seriously bad virus.
    That said, I want to address some of the above comments.

    1) It has been said that "nobody that has tested negative for HIV/AIDS has died from it." Well...thats not true. HIV tests are relatively innacurate (compared to other testings of disease). The incubation period for HIV is very long (up to 15 years) that a person could test negative and be carying the virus. Maybe its not compeltey pertinent to this discussion but I believe in stopping misinformation.

    For the seriously misinformed...nobody realy dies from AIDS...they die from a secondary infection (bacterial pneumonia and the "FLU" are common causes of death). This makes HIV/AIDS statistics realy ambiguous because some healthcare centers report their COD's in different ways. For example...some would report a death of pneumonia in an AIDs patient as an AIDS related death...others would not.

    As for the film and debate...I WISH I could have been there! I would love to watch it and give further opinion if I knew what it was called icon_smile.gif