You can keep her.

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    Nov 25, 2009 5:51 PM GMT
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091124/entertainment/palin_marg_delahunty


    "Palin strolled over, looking down on Walsh and her crew to tell them that "Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit."

    "Basically, she said government should stop doing the work that private enterprise should do," Walsh said. "


    ...so there you have it - it's not about people or health it's about profit.
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    Nov 25, 2009 6:54 PM GMT
    Perhaps she feels that the health industry will then channel some of that profit to mostly right-wing candidates and office holders, just like they do in the US. But I'm not sure myself how Canadian politics are funded, how much individuals & companies can contribute to parties & candidates, compared to the US.

    I might mention that my partner gets one of his prescriptions from Canada, legally and with his US doctor's approval. It's his most expensive, and costs 1/3 of the cheapest price he can get in the US, 1/4 of the price he sometimes sees.

    Yes, Sarah, by all means introduce US profit models to Canadian medicine, so one segment of the economy can prey on another, the good old American way. icon_razz.gif
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    Nov 25, 2009 8:19 PM GMT
    lol, that was such a simplistic and er, dense reply that it took us aback for a second.

    The above organizations and professionals do indeed get paid well for what they do and what they provide up here in Canada. It's kept affordable so ALL have equal access. It is NOT however a 'charge what the market will bear and the sky's the limit' industry mentality like you have down there. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Our healthcare system teaches and promotes proactive health from lifestyle to eating habits. Your system, requiring ever geometrically expanding profits, requires a nation of sick people (consumers) to steadily increase profit margins.



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    Nov 25, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
    Palin advising Canada. That's rich. I wonder if Canada will give a collective "fuck you, tits" to sarahcuda.
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    Nov 25, 2009 8:52 PM GMT
    you know she has to keep one eye on Russia and Putin and one eye on Canada and Harper when they rear their little heads. All from her house. It is no wonder she didn't have time to be governor .. must be hell to have Gladys Kravitz as your neighbor icon_eek.gif

    gladys-kravitz-nosey-neighbor_abner.jpg
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    Nov 25, 2009 8:55 PM GMT
    So, Palin doesn't like Canada?
    This article implies that Sarah's comparable to a feared Mob Boss. But really the whole recent situation about her book signing sound too weird, even though I understand it's a book signing not an interview.
    I wonder If she falls under the the label of eccentric yet.
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    Nov 25, 2009 10:50 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    meninlove said...so there you have it - it's not about people or health it's about profit.


    Newsflash: We're not a socialist or communist country down here in the USA, though we are moving in that direction thanks to the current leadership in power in Washington DC.

    Companies need to make a profit in order to continue to survive and grow.

    Newsflash #2: And hospitals, doctor's practices, health insurance companies, drug companies can actually make a profit while also providing the products and services that people need in order to stay healthy or be treated for a disease or condition.

    Do you honestly NOT know that????


    I hate to be so straightforward, but I think you're a jackass.

    Do you know about the history of health care? Why it was started, who started it and for whom? Educate yourself on the issues before you let your keyboard-happy fingers paint you into a corner.

    But chin up, little soldier. Don't cry for your precious health insurance industry.
    There isn't a single health insurance company in the U.S. that is feeling any pain right now. The last time I checked, most were touting another year of record profits.
  • MercuryMax

    Posts: 713

    Nov 25, 2009 11:07 PM GMT
    She's just another idiot, it seems. So glad Obama is President. At least he's trying to help people. Not saying I agree with all his policies, but I do believe that he understand what the United States should be. A fair nation that promotes equal rights and liberties to all.
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    Nov 26, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    (sorry it's just too funny)

    southbeach quoted us saying that your system, requiring ever geometrically expanding profits, requires a nation of sick people (consumers) to steadily increase profit margins.

    and replied with "Incorrect."

    And we'll say oh, possibly, with a shortage of sick people a.k.a. consumers, the alternative is to charge $25.00 for a band-aid...oh wait, they're already doing that. Share holders! Dividends!
    We don't play the stock market, but wonder how much of the US health care system can be bought and sold on the floor.




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    Nov 26, 2009 1:44 AM GMT
    meninlove said lol, that was such a simplistic and er, dense reply that it took us aback for a second.

    The above organizations and professionals do indeed get paid well for what they do and what they provide up here in Canada. It's kept affordable so ALL have equal access. It is NOT however a 'charge what the market will bear and the sky's the limit' industry mentality like you have down there. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Our healthcare system teaches and promotes proactive health from lifestyle to eating habits. Your system, requiring ever geometrically expanding profits, requires a nation of sick people (consumers) to steadily increase profit margins.

    I don't think you understood my meaning, and no doubt I wasn't clear enough. But you're 2 of the guys here with whom I don't wanna get into a debate.
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    Nov 26, 2009 1:52 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    meninlove saidWe don't play the stock market, but wonder how much of the US health care system can be bought and sold on the floor.


    None of it.

    Shares of companies can be bought and sold on the floor.

    You really do not understand what a stock market is, do you?

    And apparently you have a hatred of capitalism.


    I'm beginning to develop a hatred of dumb people
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    Nov 26, 2009 2:01 AM GMT
    "And apparently you have a hatred of capitalism." Hardly, our thing is real estate and we're now on our third house.

    We do however have a hatred of suffering and poverty, and of those that would keep the first two enshrined in society.

    Surprise surprise, southbeach. Ever hear of The Hospital Corporation of America? They were publicly traded right into 2006 til their LBO transaction.

    From their website: "With our LBO transaction successfully completed in November of 2006, HCA is no longer a publicly traded company. You may obtain copies of the company's financial filings posted under "SEC Filings/Reports."


    ..and this is even better...

    http://web.streetauthority.com/cmnts/pt/2005/05-17.asp

    "Hospital Stocks Poised to Benefit from an Aging Population"

    Nice. This is probably the best of the three:

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/130982-hospital-stocks-on-the-upswing

    "Hospital Stocks on the Upswing
    by: Joshua Morgan Brown April 15, 2009"
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    Nov 26, 2009 2:27 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    meninlove said...so there you have it - it's not about people or health it's about profit.


    Newsflash: We're not a socialist or communist country down here in the USA, though we are moving in that direction thanks to the current leadership in power in Washington DC.

    Companies need to make a profit in order to continue to survive and grow.

    Newsflash #2: And hospitals, doctor's practices, health insurance companies, drug companies can actually make a profit while also providing the products and services that people need in order to stay healthy or be treated for a disease or condition.

    Do you honestly NOT know that????


    Photobucket
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    Nov 26, 2009 2:27 AM GMT


    OK ok ok...we'll play this silly game ...

    Are hospitals part of the US healthcare system? We think so.

    so again, "but wonder how much of the US health care system can be bought and sold on the floor."

    By how much perhaps we should have said 'which parts'? There, better? icon_lol.gif

    When we say health care system we refer to all the parts that make it up. Don't know about your mysterious US one, but our healthcare system is mainly composed of hospitals and their employees, doctors and their staff, regional authorities to oversee services, and the government.

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    Nov 26, 2009 2:38 AM GMT
    I guess we need a definition of what our Health Care System is.

    Do we have a System?

    I understand the Social Security System; The Medicare System and any other System that is Socialized.


    meninlove...you have to have someone you would like to trade?
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    Nov 26, 2009 2:56 AM GMT


    Dustin_k_Tx said, "meninlove...you have to have someone you would like to trade?"

    Oh hey...we'll trade Stephen Harper for one Barack Obama. Sarah Palin we'll take too, but only to be a regular on This Hour Has 22 Minutes. She'll be safe there. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:09 AM GMT
    meninlove said

    Dustin_k_Tx said, "meninlove...you have to have someone you would like to trade?"

    Oh hey...we'll trade Stephen Harper for one Barack Obama. Sarah Palin we'll take too, but only to be a regular on This Hour Has 22 Minutes. She'll be safe there. icon_wink.gif


    I thinking more along the lines of Ryan Reynolds.

    He's still Canadian write?
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:10 AM GMT
    "And where is the innovation coming out of the Canadian "system" of healthcare that you outline above? What incentive is there to innovate?

    Seems to me that all those medicines and medical equipment and yes, breakthroughs in treatment that you all enjoy up there in Canada were created under a capitalist system - a system that doesn't exist with respect to health care in Canada."

    OK southbeach...here you go... and we began with this century as the list was too long for a post with the last century included....

    "
    2000 Discovery of the mechanism of formation of amyloid, the basis of Alzheimer’s and other diseases, and the subsequent development of drugs to treat this. (Kingston General Hospital — Kingston, Ontario)

    2001 Discovery of a clinical rule that may reduce use of unnecessary x-rays for low-risk neck injuries and could aid in reducing use of imaging tests in alert and stable patients. (Ottawa Health Research Institute — Ottawa, Ontario)

    2001 Development of the first animal model for Hepatitis C in mice, using transplanted human cells, providing a convenient way to test new treatments for Hepatitis C. (Capital Health/University of Alberta — Edmonton, Alberta)

    2001 Tissue factor is a cell surface membrane protein involved in the initiation of blood clotting. Overexpression or increased activation of tissue factor can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease. The research group demonstrated that overexpression of GRP78 (a protein), can block the coagulant activity of tissue factor in human cells. These studies are important because they have identified a relevant cellular factor that can mediate tissue factor activity. (Hamilton Health Sciences Centre — Hamilton, Ontario)

    2001 Identified the emerging role that albuminuria as an important risk factor for both kidney and heart disease. (Hamilton Health Sciences/McMaster University – Hamilton, Ontario)

    2002 Introduction of revolutionary medication doses for depression and schizophrenia through positron emission tomography (PET) technology. (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health — Toronto, Ontario)

    2002 Creation of a simple system to generate T-cells in a Petri dish. T-cells are a vital component of the immune system that orchestrate, regulate and coordinate the overall immune response. This discovery provided a method to create model systems to study the genetics and molecular biology of T-cell development and points to future clinical therapies for people whose immune systems have been destroyed, for example, by HIV or toxic cancer therapies. (Sunnybrook & Women’s Research Institute — Toronto, Ontario)

    2002 Discovery that a type of self-destructing “suicide cell” activity, previously believed to only be detrimental, is in fact necessary for the proper formation of muscle tissue. (Ottawa Health Research Institute — Ottawa, Ontario)

    2002 Pioneered the use of Botulinum Toxin A to reduce upper limb spasticity in children with cerebral palsy. (Bloorview Kids Rehab – Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Discovery of a molecular marker to diagnose hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC), the most common type of liver cancer. HCC is usually asymptomatic at early stages, and has great propensity for invasion, making it difficult to treat. A test was developed for the early diagnosis of HCC, which could also be useful for the screening of individuals that are at high risk for developing this disease, such as people chronically infected with Hepatitis B and C. (Sunnybrook & Women’s Research Institute — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Researchers discover a way to make the immune system specifically recognize infectious prions, proteins that cause brain-wasting diseases like mad cow disease and Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease, its human equivalent. This discovery paves the way for the development of diagnostic tools, immunotherapy and a vaccine. (Sunnybrook & Women’s Research Institute — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Major international clinical trial provides first alternative treatment to taxol for preventing breast cancer recurrence in survivors five years post diagnosis. (University Health Network — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Compilation of the complete DNA sequence of chromosome 7. Researchers decode nearly all of the genes on this medically important portion of the human genome. Chromosome 7 contains 1,455 genes, some of which, when altered, cause diseases such as cystic fibrosis, leukemia and autism. (Hospital for Sick Children — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Study makes it easier to identify patients with deep vein thrombosis (DVT), providing faster diagnosis and significant savings to the health care system. (Ottawa Health Research Institute — Ottawa, Ontario)

    2003 Performed the world’s first deep brain stimulation for depression, causing depression that was previously treatment-resistant to go into remission. (University Health Network — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Identification of a cancer stem cell responsible for brain tumors. This discovery may change how this deadly condition is studied and treated in the future. (Hospital for Sick Children — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Linkage of maternal folic acid intake to a decrease in neuroblastoma, a deadly childhood cancer. (Hospital for Sick Children — Toronto, Ontario)

    2003 Performed the world’s first hospital-to-hospital telerobotic assisted surgery on a patient more than 400 kilometres away. During the procedure, they completed a Nissen Fundoplication on a 66-year old patient located at North Bay General Hospital from St. Joseph’s telerobotics suite in Hamilton, Ontario. (St. Joseph’s Healthcare – Hamilton, Ontario).

    2003 Developed a genetically modified vaccine that can completely prevent the recurrence of metastatic breast cancer through genetically altered cells that only destroy cancer cells. (Hamilton Health Sciences/McMaster University – Hamilton, Ontario)

    2003 Developed first draft DNA sequence for coronavirus implicated as cause of SARS (Provincial Health Services Authority/BC Cancer Agency, Genome Sciences Centre – Vancouver, British Columbia)

    2003 Found that the vast majority of heart attacks can be predicted by nine easily measurable factors that are the same in virtually every region and ethnic group worldwide. (Hamilton Health Sciences/McMaster University – Hamilton, Ontario)

    2004 Performed the world’s first simulated underwater surgery during the NASA Extreme Environment Mission Operation (NEEMO 7). During the 10-day NEEMO 7 Mission, they successfully telementored the NEEMO7 crew through various surgical simulations from their base in the underwater Aquarius habitat located 19 metres below the surface off the coast of Key largo, Florida. (St. Joseph’s Healthcare – Hamilton, Ontario)

    2004 Development of StemBase, a database of gene expression data from DNA micro array experiments on samples from human and mouse stem cells and their derivatives. This growing resource is used to find genes whose activity is related to stem cells. (Ottawa Health Research Institute — Ottawa, Ontario)

    2004 Discovery of the apelin receptor and design of an analogue that can interfere with and block the actions of apelin, in order to decipher its role in the brain. (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health — Toronto, Ontario)

    2004 Discovery of over 70 novel human receptor genes; many of which, together with their chemical activators, mediate unique functions in the brain and are being targeted for drug design. (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health — Toronto, Ontario)

    2004 In the first large, multi-centre clinical trial of its kind, researchers provided evidence to suggest that artery grafts from the forearm should be used in place of vein grafts from the leg in heart bypass surgery because radial arteries have significantly higher graft patency over one year. Graft patency, a measure of whether the bypass remains open enough to permit efficient blood flow, is critical to success after surgery. (Sunnybrook & Women’s Research Institute"
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:13 AM GMT
    brought to you by....

    http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/2007/11/canadas-greatest-medical-research.html
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:16 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidAnd now post all the innovations in the field of medicine created in the USA for the same period.

    The numbers will be staggeringly in favor of the USA.


    Isnt that beside the point, that the residents of the US can barely afford their innovations, and Canadians can afford them?
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:16 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    meninlove saidYour system, requiring ever geometrically expanding profits, requires a nation of sick people (consumers) to steadily increase profit margins.


    Incorrect.


    You misspelled "correct"

    In case you were unaware, Canada is not a socialist country; we, too, are owned by big business and big banks, for big business and big banks. However, we DO have universal health care (which alone is not an accurate definition of a socialist state).

    Further, America's health care system is NOT a free market system. I don't know what ideal system you are attempting to defend, but it isn't there. America's health "care" system is more accurately a corporatist/fascistic system: collusion between big government and big pharma/insurance/corporate. When the government and corporations merge and collude in constructing systems of governance, that's called corporatism, or economic fascism.

    On that note, Obama is NOT a socialist. His administration has shown a great support of corporatism, while at times espousing a more socialist-like rhetoric. However, words don't make the man, actions do.

    Your argument was still-born.
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:18 AM GMT
    Canada's healthcare system is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much CHEAPER! And awesome!

    Also, MeOhMy is seriously hot! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:19 AM GMT

    well, let's see...Canada's population is 35 million, the US's is 350 million at least, so that could very well be, as with that many people you'll have a bigger resource base. As well, it's what the innovation is that's far more important than the numbers of them.

    We also notice you're offering none of this info yourself, but making us look it up.

    Sorry bucko. Two can play that game (or three in this case), lol!

    Now you go look up all the US innovations and post a link here for us.
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:26 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    north_runner saidIsnt that beside the point, that the residents of the US can barely afford their innovations, and Canadians can afford them?


    Per capita income in the USA is 25% to 30% higher than in Canada.

    But you bring up a good point. How is it that Canadians can afford their health care system?

    I am totally in the dark on this one and I assume you are Canadian, so maybe you will know.

    What are the tax rates like in, for instance Toronto?

    If I earn $50,000 (Cdn) a year, what percentage of that is taken out in taxes by the government? (Federal, Province and Toronto).

    If the percentage is higher compared to an American earning $50,000 (US), then that's probably the answer... Canadians are paying for their health care system via higher taxes.


    It's THIS simple: the cost per capita is actually TWO THIRDS of the cost per capita of the American system! And the outcomes in Canada are equivalent or better!
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    Nov 26, 2009 3:26 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    north_runner saidIsnt that beside the point, that the residents of the US can barely afford their innovations, and Canadians can afford them?
    Canadians are paying for their health care system via higher taxes.


    no shit Sherlock

    but at least we don't have to decide if we "really" need that thumb, because we just can't afford insurance