Friends Plus?

  • imaxim

    Posts: 94

    May 10, 2007 6:57 AM GMT
    Parts of this are things I've already alluded to in another forum/topic, so my apologies in advance for repeating myself here.

    When first coming out, after many years of not interacting with any gay people at all, I had lots of ideas in my head at what it would be like to have that freedom. It seemed logical to me that with the gender differences and tension removed, men in a gay community would be free to enjoy recreational sex inside or outside of a more serious relationship.

    In theory, gay men as friends could hang out casually without worrying about crossing over certain boundaries with touching or looking at one another the way straight men do. They could also talk about other hot guys they've seen and/or met, and even experience sexual release together if they choose, all the while still searching for Mr. Right. After all, how much more comfortable can you get than with your buddy, particularly if exploring things that you've never tried before? Of course, what I've found in reality has been far different.

    My question here is, how many of you have managed to break this arbitrary barrier between sex and friendship (where there is mutual interest)? We all know there are some people who we connect with sexually and enjoy the company of, but who turn out not to be right for us in the long run for any number of reasons. Have you ever continued to have an ongoing sexual and platonic relationship with someone after the possibility of a more serious relationship had already been eliminated, or started a sexual relationship with someone who was already a friend, without the intention to ever pursue more than that?

    Bear in mind, I'm talking about people who are single and eligible, or were single at the time. If you're in a monogamous relationship, open relationship, or were just VERY available sexually, then you would be included in or excluded from this by default, accordingly.
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    May 10, 2007 11:22 AM GMT
    Agree 100% with you. To add to your comments, I see no difference then 2 friends and it could be any combination. 2 women, guy and girl who are friends, two straight guys or two gay guys.

    The big differance between 2 gays guys in a non-sexual relationship is that Temptation could be there.

    I work on a college campus and the rate of "recreational sex" is at an all time high and so is STI's.

    Like you said You may like the person as a friend but have no sexual attraction to the person. I think as long as both parties know where they stand, it can work well.
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    May 10, 2007 2:50 PM GMT
    I think the posibility of hoooking up w/ one of your close pals is high when you find him interesting, attractive, and funny. I say, give it a chance, just to see the potential. And say if it doesnt work out and it gets ackward, then the chances of your friendship bouncing back are still high. Its a win win situation, if you two both honest with eachother.
    (Trust me, ive done it twice in my life) LOL
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    May 11, 2007 12:26 AM GMT
    I currently have a very close friend...in which this friendship has gotten deeper...while he's been in an up/down partnered relationship. We've had discussions about the POSSIBILITY of upgrading this to a boyfriend relationship if he were avaialble (not while he is not).

    This also relates to several other forum topics/discussions on fidelity. While we have not crossed the "line"...it's also true we have special feelings for one another that go beyond conventional friendship. At this point those special feelings, from point of view, are so intertwined around the friendship, that it would destroy the special qualities of the friendship to try to extricate them for me.

    But what we have committed to for one another is being connected, looking after one another, for the duration. People that see us with one another often mistake the interactions as those boyfriends have for one another.

    So it is very complicated...yet satisfying at many levels. I have stopped trying to put a label on it.

    Who knows what the future will bring...but it is an example of a relationship that is neither totally platonic, nor is it explicitly sexual beneath the belt. It just is.
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    May 11, 2007 1:34 AM GMT
    A year or two before I met my present partner I had a dinner party for a bunch of people I knew but none of whom knew one another. Everyone got along really, really well. Many of them became friends with one another.

    I was curious why things went so well and then I realized everyone present (including two women) were friends with whom I also had sex every now and then.

    Such relationships worked fine for me when I was single but, in a relationship, even an open one, I don't feel comfortable having sex with friends.
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    May 11, 2007 1:44 AM GMT
    I truly believe THIS is what being gay is all about, but unfortunately, most gay guys are still programmed towards imitating the ways heterosexual people pair off, complete with the top/btm roles. There are also a ton of guys who sexually compartmentalize their escapades into being either a trick, fuck buddy, boyfriend, LTR, husband, etc. "Best friend" is often never on the list of possible compartments. This kind of mentality leaves no room for alternative methods of bonding.

    From the guys I've met recently, many have a hangup about casual sex friends, feeling as though the bond isn't valid since it does not fit into the compartment of "marriage" that our gay community at large is so preoccupied with.
  • trebor965

    Posts: 200

    May 11, 2007 3:37 AM GMT
    i want casual sex from a best friend without the aid of roofies. i see nothing better. since when did gay people have morales? whats a little harmless m2mbffbjjo? from single friends, of course.
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    May 11, 2007 4:27 AM GMT
    It can work. I have several friends that are like my best friends (when we go out people mistake us for being a couple)and we hug, kiss, grab each other's asses, and just monkey around. I have messed around with both of most of them, and we realized that being really close friends is great. We still talk about guys that we find hot, and about what qualities we want in a guy.

    I love our relationship, and wouldn't want to give it up for anything.
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    May 11, 2007 6:04 PM GMT
    While I'm certainly open to this concept, it hasn't really worked out well for me. I mean, what's better, to screw a friend that you can be open and honest with, or to screw a stranger that you'll probably never see again?

    Most of my friends I'm not really attracted to though, lol, so *shrugs* it never really comes up. Personally, I don't want to give a place for drama to grow (not that it happens often, but why risk it?) so I tend to just be friends with my friends...and watch my porn collection grow, lol.
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    May 12, 2007 6:58 AM GMT
    I think having sex with your friends is a really really bad idea.

    For me it's a complete no-no. Maybe it's something you explore when you first come out and don't understand how complicated this idea can make your life.

    You can't control your feelings and the feelings of your friends. What happens if one of you falls in love with the other and it isn't reciprocated?

    Love is not a word that's been used in this discussion, I notice.
  • RSportsguy

    Posts: 1925

    May 12, 2007 2:14 PM GMT
    I don't think I would want to have sex with any of my friends. It is not that they are not great guys or they are not hot, it is just a line that I do not wish to cross. I am the same way with my straight friends. I mean I find no sexual attraction to them even though some of them are considered quite hot. Now, there are friends of friends that I would go for in a heart beat!!
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    May 12, 2007 3:06 PM GMT
    I am not so sure if this scenerio differs much from the perspective of a straight man with a woman. Of course, I cannot tell you exactly because I am not straight, but I do have very close straight male and female friends and this is just a 3rd person observation...

    If both parties are single, and there was enough mutual sexual attraction from the begining, the partied would probalby acted on the sexual attraction. They can end up being friends, casual sexual partners with only an aquaintence level of "friendship," or romantically invovled.

    Sometimes when there was only very moderate amount of sexual attraction, possibly which neither parties consciously acknowledged, the parties are sometimes hesitant to get involved sexually. The parties most often are worried if this can ruin the already existing friendship when expectations from eachother can easily become incongurent with the parties...

    And to be truthful, I have heard that of situations which friends who act on this moderate and unacknowledge sexual attraction end up as romantic couples, but most of the time this is not the case. More ofthen, this scenerio end up sour as there was not enough sexual attraction and fullfillment betwen the parties in the first place, but the difficult task of mutal adjustments of expectations created a lot of resentment between the two...

    Purely casual sexual relationships tend not to last very long as both parties get seuxally bored with eachother, or one party develops feelings beyond just an aquaitence and the same sour dynamic follows...

    So, I do not see that much difference between the scenrio with gay men whio are friends or stright men and women who are friends. the only difference is that men tend to have an easier time compartmentalizing various levels of sexual relationships.

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    May 12, 2007 4:25 PM GMT

    NYCMusc4Musc---Very well said. That's a very cogent summary of a complex set of possibilities between two "friends."

    redheadguy---if you go back to my (admittedly long) post, you'll see what I was describing in there had everything to do with love (of the romantic kind between guys) and less to do with sex between friends. That makes it less germane to this forum topic, though.
  • imaxim

    Posts: 94

    May 13, 2007 6:13 AM GMT
    Thanks for the thoughtful responses. From NYC's post, the more 'casual' friendship with the moderate existing sexual attraction is probably the closest to what I had in mind (the logic being that the sexual intimacy would tend to add some additional dimensions to that friendship). I guess I'm a bit unusual in that I don't really see myself getting bored with someone sexually unless the connection wasn't all there to begin with. I find the familiarity and trust to be more of a turn-on and tend to fall into the "monogamy by default" behavior very easily.

    I suppose the obvious answer is that the place to look for these things is in a traditional relationship. However, having just come out, I don't feel like I'm on a level playing field with other guys my age (almost all of whom have been dating much longer). Part of it is that most of the people I've met so far are so hell-bent on finding Mr. Right that they regard everyone else as disposable. I find that to be a little too much pressure, so I've been avoiding anyone who is looking for something serious.

    I'm not sure if that's really the right approach, but it's the only one I've got right now.
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    May 13, 2007 11:32 AM GMT
    Oh yeah...it will DEFINATELY add some dimension to your friendship if you throw in sex...

    The fact is that how you feel is not unique amongst gay AND straight men and it is not likely dependent on your homsexual sexual and dating experience...

    Furthermore, the familiarity one feels with a regular sexual partner adds a lot to the sexual experience INITIALLY... One does not have to worry about rejection and this adds the confidence to freely explore and act on sexual fantasies. One already knows how to push the key sexual buttons to turn on the partner (or partners.) That is why "Fvck buds" work so well for some if the sexual encounters are spontaneous and the frequency not so closed spaced.

    BUT then again, if this was an ongoing thing happening very frequently, one or both partners usualy get bored from TOO much sexual familiarity, especially when there is no emotional attachment to give the sexual experience a deeper dimension. OR like I said previously, the dimension that can be added to the "friendship" can be incongruent expectations... Human emotions are not rational and no matter how one tells oneself that he or she is not SUPPOSED to expect this and that out of such a "friendship", one's feelings and the associated expectations tend to go where they go without directives.

    So while this is not impossible, such a scenrio can only be done if BOTh parties are able to compartmentalize sex the same way. Men, gay or straight, tends to do this easier.. So I really do not think this has to do with one coming out or the lack of sexual and dating experience... Emotions are not rational; one can "fall" for someone with powerful and huge expectations despite the efforts to compartmentalize the experience. That is why I always tell my friends this about "love": You can't chase it. You can't avoid it. It comes when it comes.
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    May 13, 2007 12:07 PM GMT
    I meant you cannot chase after it...
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    May 13, 2007 1:06 PM GMT
    This topic reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry and Elaine try to iron out a strategy for having casual sex while trying to avoid all the complexities of a relationship.
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    May 14, 2007 2:03 AM GMT
    Very good points NYCmuscle4muscle.

    If we were all perfectly capable of compartmentalizing relationships, that could work. I used to think that I would be able to do that, but now I'm not so sure. Very simply, I cannot stop falling in love once it has had a chance to start. To make things trickier, the process of falling in love tends to start subconsciously.
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    May 14, 2007 3:02 PM GMT
    The word for the day: cogent.

    Great word.
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    May 14, 2007 3:02 PM GMT
    The word for the day: cogent.

    Great word.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 20, 2007 2:51 PM GMT
    I for one am very careful to keep the two separate
    ...sex changes things dramatically
    so if you want your friends to stay "friends" why throw a monkey wrench into the picture?
    ...It's one of those things that sound good theoretically but in practise maybe a totally different picture
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    May 21, 2007 10:05 PM GMT
    I did the blunder of taking it a step further with my best friend.

    To me the foundation of a great relationship is friendship. So if a strong friendship exists a terrific relationship could be developed.

    Suffice to say I am working real hard to salvage the friendship. Just sharing the idea made him terribly uncomfortable.

    On the other hand I am friends with a gay couple who were friends for four years before they explored a relationship. Now they have been together for nearly a decade, so go figure!

    It works with lucky people, I think!
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    May 21, 2007 11:27 PM GMT
    In my early teens, I explored homosexuality with my best friend. Actually, he initiated the sexual relationship and showed me many tricks of the trade. We did everything except anal sex. We also slept together often. We hung around together up into our late teens. I went off to college, got married and so did he. A few years back I contacted him, just to get together to catch up on our lives and to meet his wife and children with no sexual intention on my part. I could tell he was very uncompfortable with the idea, so I just let it die.

    I wished to this day that we not have had sex together had I known it come to this.
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    May 22, 2007 12:18 AM GMT
    Rick,

    He might be uncomfortable because of the gay issue. If you were an ex girfriend, I dont think it would have been as uncomfortable... He is just closeted. He may even be still sexually active with other men outside his marraige, this is not all tha uncommon, you never know..
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    May 22, 2007 12:20 AM GMT
    Adam,

    If you had to work that hard to "salvage" the friendship, the degree of sexual attraction may not be mutual...