Fighting back the ignorance - alternative ideas

  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Dec 02, 2009 9:32 PM GMT
    What can we do to get people to realize how wrong they are in not supporting equal rights for gay people? Lets discuss new ideas....because we need them.....


    Here is one:
    I think that what we need to do is have the gay families that are married in states where it is legal more public.....

    hopefully, it would make all of those people that fear that children will find out about gay people realize how ignorant they are.

    We need commercials and billboards and mainstream products with pictures of gay couples kissing

    Maybe we should develop a program to teach children about gay families in ways that do not involve schools.

    We need to be everywhere so that they can't get away from us....lol
  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Dec 02, 2009 9:43 PM GMT
    Kids love those little give away toys that they get at fast food places.

    What if we designed toys that have 2 mommies.....and 2 daddies and gave them away free to kids.

    It could be our Love Makes A Family Toy Line. icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 02, 2009 9:56 PM GMT


    Have one gay couple apply for refugee status in Canada due to being forbidden marriage, or for having that right removed. Make sure there's a media circus.

    Watch the feathers n fur fly as all parties attempt international damage control.
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    Dec 02, 2009 10:01 PM GMT
    An alternative to fighting: listening compassionately to the more ignorant voices. You can't force someone to change their views, but if they are really allowed to be understood (by us) in their views, understood in the consequences of their views, understood in the pain that is within their views, then they might change.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Dec 03, 2009 12:36 AM GMT
    Trying to be reasonable with unreasonable people doesn't work.
    Ultimately it's going to take a ruling at the federal level imo.
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    Dec 03, 2009 12:56 AM GMT
    A close friend of mine wrote and posted this on Facebook today (http://www.facebook.com/charlierogers). The last one is my personal favorite.



    This is War: Some Ideas For Gaining Equality

    Today at 1:53pm

    Today the New York State Senate voted against a bill that would provide marriage rights to homosexual couples. The outcome was especially disappointing as eight Democrats, generally the party with which gay people identify themselves, voted no, and even more disappointing as the State Assembly had resoundingly voted for it, and the Governor had promised to sign it into law if the Senate had passed it as well.

    This development comes just over a year after California's voters overturned a judicial decision that allowed gay marriage in that state, through the state's referendum process.

    New York and California are generally considered to be the vanguards of American culture, housing almost our entire television, movie, publishing and music industries. And the right-wing often decries those same media outlets as being excessively liberal, which would suggest that NY and CA are some of the most liberal states in the country. But within a year, both have rejected gay marriage.

    Not to mention the total nonstarter that is the repeal of the national Defense of Marriage Act.

    Let me make something clear here. Gay marriage is not a question of why or how, but of when. There are simply no legitimate arguments against what is ultimately a violation of the civil rights of a segment of the population. There is no precedent of any other institution, aside from its own military, that any American government, at any level, supports while that institution practices discrimination. The religious argument will not hold, as long as special rights and privileges are offered to married couples, as we have a pretty clear rule in this country that we cannot allow any religion, or even a collective of all the major faiths, to dictate policy. It's stated quite plainly in the Constitution.

    So gay marriage is inevitable. In fact, it already exists in a handful of states, and it's simply a matter of time until the other states have to fall in line. Simply a matter of time. But if you ask me, that time should be now. Not next year, not after the next election cycle, not in a generation, not even next week, but now. It is an ongoing violation of civil rights and it must be stopped.

    It's a war. These people want, for no meaningful or supportable reason, to withhold rights from you. They want to take, and hold, what is rightfully yours.

    I am not an expert but I do have a few ideas, possible ways to combat this distressing trend.

    1. Be visible. Remind all your friends and relatives that a vote for any politician who does not actively support gay rights is a vote against your rights. Your civil rights. If your pleasant but conservative cousin broke into your house and took your iPod, you'd be less chatty with her at Thanksgiving dinner. But you'll let her vote for conservatives who deny you your rights, in essence stealing something from you.

    2. Ask your truly pro-gay straight friends to do the same.

    3. Don't sign online petitions as a way to convince yourself you're getting involved. They're one hundred percent pointless.

    4. Rallies at City Hall are fine and all, but they're probably not more effective than online petitions. The rest of the country looks at us and says, "Oh, look, the gays are angry and protesting in a place that no one goes. Well, no matter, they'll be over it tomorrow anyway." If you want to get noticed you have to inconvenience people, preferably your enemies. How about rallies at churches that supported the legislation that keeps us as second class citizens? Pro-life people don't rally at city hall, they rally at abortion clinics and make people uncomfortable. We should do the same.

    5. For the especially brave and vocal, actually attend services at these religious institutions and disrupt them. The point to a protest is to make people uncomfortable, to challenge people on their beliefs. Stand up during the sermon and shout louder than the priest or preacher or whoever. When they ask you to leave, go peacefully, but loudly. Anger is fine in these situations but when in a place of worship you'd do better appealing to the congregation's sense of charity and decency.

    6. Write or call your elected officials and make your opinion known. Our opponents do this, in droves. Even contact the ones you didn't or wouldn't support; they don't know who you really voted for.

    7. Possibly also let these elected officials know that you will not be paying taxes until you are given the same rights as the rest of the population. This can be done on a state or national level. I'm no expert, but if you intend to do this, I think it might be best to calculate your taxes as normal at tax time and put that money into escrow. There might be a legal distinction between simple tax evasion and an act of civil disobedience, and holding your owed money in escrow is a way of demonstrating that it's the latter and not the former. This could be really effective if enough people actually committed to doing it, especially at the state level in states like NY and CA that have famously imbalanced budgets.

    8. Be proud. If you expend a lot of energy putting down other segments of the community, be it the aberzombies or leering trolls, or anyone in between, you are part of the problem. We are all just people and we are all just trying to make it through the same history of repression and oppression. Other gay men are not your competition, they are not dragging you down, they are your brothers and sisters, and we're never going to get anywhere if we can't stick together.
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    Dec 03, 2009 1:58 AM GMT
    We all need to get out of the closet.

    Embrace the fear, confront the danger, highlight the ignorant and come out of the closet.

    5-10% of the population is gay. If we stopped hiding and lying, I'm sure it'd make an enormous difference.
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    Dec 03, 2009 3:09 AM GMT
    We can argue until we are blue in the face, but unless we put a human face to the whole idea.......instead of angry poltical dogma and debate....people will not budge.

    I admire the men here on RJ, and in my daily life, who live openly, and in love, with their partners. Interacting as normal human beings, as a gay couple, being part of their geographic comminity, being concerned with the quality of life in their neighborhoods, and focusing on what everybody needs as people says a lot.

    That's why I don't understand the gay men who live in the closet...afraid to show people that they are gay....the ones who will sign a petition in support, but will not show the world who they are.....with their neighbors, family and friends.

    Put a human face on yourself and be , not only a gay person, but a person. Period.

  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Dec 03, 2009 3:16 AM GMT
    Geez why don't u just create a state/country and live there and stop trying to change everyone or act like you are so shocked and confused about people who don't support gay rights or whatever. People think the way they think, it goes both ways with both parties/sides. You either accept something or not, there is no in between. Just because I am latino and bisexual doesn't mean I have to support everything they are doing
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    Dec 03, 2009 8:15 AM GMT
    This is inspirational. Forward around!

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    Dec 03, 2009 12:24 PM GMT
    Jmuscle33 saidGeez why don't u just create a state/country and live there and stop trying to change everyone or act like you are so shocked and confused about people who don't support gay rights or whatever. People think the way they think, it goes both ways with both parties/sides. You either accept something or not, there is no in between. Just because I am latino and bisexual doesn't mean I have to support everything they are doing


    we don't support you either.......your opposition to freedom and equql rights for gay people is your choice but I guarantee it is all based on fear, believing that you don't deserve it, embarresment of who you are..........acceptance of typical religious/social bigotry, the belief that there is actually something inherently wrong about being gay, and just that old fashioned plain old internalized homophobia that some gay people pretend doesn't exist within themselves. Perhaps screaming and marching in a gay pride parade once a year is more than enough for you.....or maybe too much for you

    actually, you hit on a good idea. while we are at it, let's set up a separate state for latinos, asian, old people, blacks, religious peopl, non religious people, etc....this way everybody won't have to argue or fight about equal dignity and rights...........and there won't be that pesky inconveneince of "in between".

    Life could then be easily catagorized and safe, since it will be divided into "black and white" philosophies with nobody being "grey".
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    Dec 03, 2009 12:42 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Have one gay couple apply for refugee status in Canada due to being forbidden marriage, or for having that right removed. Make sure there's a media circus.

    Watch the feathers n fur fly as all parties attempt international damage control.

    Would your current Canadian political leaders want to offend the US on this issue? I suspect they would just ignore it as much as they could and play it down, and say it doesn't meet international standards for seeking asylum.

    And you won't get the US criticized in the UN for human rights violations, either, since the majority of the member countries are as homophobic as the US, especially Islamic nations.
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    Dec 03, 2009 12:53 PM GMT
    Here's my question: why should straight people care? I mean really, what do we as a community do for other people that should make them care about gay equality? We say things like "people need to come out and live openly" or "make ourselves more public through putting our faces on a TV campaign," but I still don't see how that means anyone should really care all that much.

    What do we as a community do to work for social justice outside of just its benefit to us? What are we as a community doing to work towards economic equality for anyone but us? What are we doing to support the work of those working on behalf of the elderly or the disabled? You know, the best agent for change is grassroots community engagement, which means taking an active role in supporting the rights of the economically disadvantaged (which helps gays too), in supporting groups dealing with the elderly (which helps gays too), in supporting racial equality (which helps gays too). After all, the work of Liberation Theology in Latin America was not just focused on Catholics, nor was the African-American civil rights movement focused just on African-Americans, but yet it seems so much of the work of the LGBT community is focused on a narrow vision of "equality" that leaves behind greater issues of social justice. Let's be honest: what does someone who's jobless (whether gay or straight) care about marriage rights?

    I don't know if I have the right answers, but I don't see putting our faces on some more TV ads as an answer that is either "alternative" or effective.
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    Dec 03, 2009 12:58 PM GMT
    metta8 said...We need to be everywhere so that they can't get away from us....lol

    In theory those approaches all have potential. None of them will work because there's not enough gays in the US who care enough to do anything.

    We can all write things here on RJ, but out on the street, and in the voting booth, we represent only a couple of percentage points of the voters, and the politicians know this. Why should they and the rest of the general public listen to us, or care about us, when we don't even have the interest to vote? Or to vote for candidates who support us?

    A great many US gays actually vote for Republicans, whose party platform calls for the denial of civll rights to gays. But when you talk to gays on the street, you hear: "Oh, I don't need civil rights, I don't plan to get married." "Civil rights don't affect me; I've got a good job and I don't wanna upset things." "This stuff isn't my issue, I have more important things to do." "I vote for Republicans because they're better for the economy; I'm not a one-issue voter." (HUH?)

    So dream about ideas, but none will work, because they can't work. Gays are like herding cats, everyone defiantly marching to his own (club remix) drummer, proud of their refusal to do anything in harmony with other gays. Shallow lives produce shallow results, as recent events continue to prove.
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    Dec 03, 2009 1:47 PM GMT
    iguanaSF saidThis is inspirational. Forward around!



    Senator Diane Savino for President!!! icon_biggrin.gif

    Thanks for the post "K" a.k.a. iguanaSF!
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    Dec 03, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
    iguanaSF saidThis is inspirational. Forward around!




    this dude behind her walked out during her speech 1:10
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 04, 2009 12:02 AM GMT
    Rodmramer saidthis dude behind her walked out during her speech 1:10


    Maybe he just had to go wee wee real bad.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 04, 2009 12:05 AM GMT
    "What can we do to get people to realize how wrong they are in not supporting equal rights for gay people?"

    Tell them you have found GodAlmighty.