Steroids in the Gay Community

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 29, 2007 4:15 AM GMT
    With steroids being in the forefront with the Mitchell Report, I'm curious what opinions are out there within the gay community.

    On one hand, someone with HIV - it appears to help keep muscle mass on their body. On the flip side - does Roid Rage truly exist?
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Dec 29, 2007 7:03 AM GMT
    Since a lot of people on this site are actively participating in sports, this commentary might not make people totally angry with me.

    I understand the need that competitive athletes feel to take performance enhancing drugs to remain competitive. The part that I don't understand at all are people who aren't really competing at anything who take steroids or HGH in order to look pretty. Steroids are illegal for a reason. Many reasons, actually. High blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, hear palpatations, hormonal imbalances, ulcers, aggression (that's the roid rage). Here's a fun one: death.

    For the people juicing to improve their appearance, roids have an almost limitless sense of irony. Using can lead to jaundice, acne (hot!), man breasts. And don't forget the shrinkage. All very, very hot.


  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Dec 29, 2007 8:01 AM GMT
    Oh, on other thing about the Mitchell Report. Since the league and players union ignored the steroid problem, drug use among major league players was rampant. Ken Caminiti estimated that 75% of the players were juicing. Of course, an enlarged heart was one of the things that led to Caminiti's death at age 41 and that was possibly brought on by steroid use. I wonder how many fine players got squeezed out of the league because they were principled and refused to take them regardless of how it affected them professionally. To me, that is the ugly legacy of the steroid era, the people who couldn't compete because they refused to cheat.
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    Dec 29, 2007 8:48 AM GMT
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=z0LEj8IPHGU

    Might as well make weed legal while we're at it LOL! Try talking to an endocrinologist or doctor who's had experience treating patients with testosterone... they'll tell you some stuff you'd never expect to hear icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 29, 2007 10:20 AM GMT




    Personally, if I wanted to shoot up, I'd sooner try heroïne. But maybe I've just seen more physically-appealing junkies than juicers.
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    Dec 29, 2007 10:30 AM GMT
    To quote Bill Phillips who is author and expert on Steroids. "If your generaly an Ass***e off Steroids you will be a bigger one on!" U do have to keep your temper in check! BH
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    Dec 29, 2007 11:49 AM GMT
    I guess i'm speaking for those that won't admit it when I say "the thought has crossed my mind", but it has. It is very frustrating being stuck on a plateau that will not budge no matter how hard you work or having a goal that you can't reach. And then ofcourse, every gym has a god that people like me want to one-up just once.
    I'm just meaning to say I can understand the reasons guys juice. Of course, I never would because I know about the health risk.I also know that plateaus can be overcome and any goal can be obtained with hard enough work. As for the gym god, he's got feet of clay. I've seen em downing greezy tacos that were fully loaded with tons of gwak all over them! Now is that godly?
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    Dec 29, 2007 1:03 PM GMT
    irishkcguy
    steriods are a prescription drug you can get legally. So does that your ok doing them if we get them legally?
    Women have been taking hormones since i can remember, about 30 some years. So i guess it's ok for them and not men.
    dood
    yes i think weed should be legal along with a long list of other drugs.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 29, 2007 1:38 PM GMT
    There are a lot of guys str8 and gay who take steroids
    and most of the time you can tell who they are
    ...and that's the funny part of it
    it's almost a new class of men....the steroid users

    as with everything there's a modicum of use that's ok
    but lot's of guys go for the more is better way of thinking and it becomes cartoonish

    plus the side effects are real
    hepatomegaly...gotta love that protruding stomach
    gyneconmastia...breasts on a man are so appealing
    cardiomyopathy...Brett Mycles might have had a genetic predisposition but don't tell me that steroids didn't get him dead much earlier than it would have

    if you're using them every once in a while...fine
    but guys... if you're cycling more than once a year
    don't fool yourself
    you're on a slippery slope
  • waltex

    Posts: 140

    Dec 29, 2007 2:01 PM GMT
    MALE MENOPAUSE . . .

    LOSS OF ENERGY . .

    LOSS OF SEXUAL DRIVE . . .

    LOSS OF MUSCLE MASS . .

    THE COMMON REASON IS A SIGNIFICANT DROP IN TESTOSTERONE LEVELS.

    A LOW DOSE OF TESTOSTERONE UNDER A DOCTOR'S CARE CAN BRING BACK ALL THE ABOVE . . .

    THERE ARE CREAMS, PATCHES OR INJECTIONS . . DEPENDING ON EFFECTIVENESS.

    YOU MUST BE BLOOD TESTED EVERY 6 MONTHS.

    THERE CAN BE SIDE EFFECTS, BUT MANY WILL GO AWAY WITH DOSAGE ADJUSTMENT.

    THIS IS THE ONLY LEGIT WAY TO TAKE "STEROIDS".



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    Dec 29, 2007 3:03 PM GMT
    Waltex -

    Thanks for putting in a balancing opinion.

    Guys, andropause is real. If you think your levels won't decline as you get older, you're kidding yourself.

    As for the doctor who scared Dood with horror stories - I'd love to bring him up on malpractice charges.

    A properly prescribed LOW dose of testosterone improves quality of life - it does NOT cause "roid rage", it does NOT automatically fuck up your lipid levels or cause heart enlargement.

    You're all being led around by the media.
  • TXShooter02

    Posts: 22

    Dec 29, 2007 3:59 PM GMT
    There are plenty of normal every day people doing steroids. A recent study found that the average steroid user is an educated, professional male in his 30's who simply wants to improve looks and performance in the gym.

    Yes there are side effects. And overabuse of anything can cause you problems. But do the research on them yourself rather than listening to the media. There are not a lot of conclusive studies that moderate use causes the hyped up problems that they have a rep for.

    As far as cheating in sports. Where do you draw the line? Certain supplements are banned by the government as well. There are people who want creatine banned. Studies are inconclusive on whether Creatine overuse can damage your kidneys. Are people who take that as bad as steroid users?

    I am a pretty easy going guy. I have used steroids in the past. I told a few friend's, so that if they noticed anything in me such as "roid rage" they would tell me. Kind of a control mechanism for me. I didn't really notice much of a difference. If you're an ass, you're an ass, PERIOD.
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    Dec 29, 2007 5:13 PM GMT
    Women have been taking hormones since i can remember, about 30 some years. So i guess it's ok for them and not men.

    It is demonstrated though that hormone replacement in menopausal and post-menopausal women increases their risk for cardiovascular disease.

    The bottom line is that any substance or pill that you can take will have both benefits and risks. And certainly steroids can be beneficial and they can be harmful.

    If you are going to use something know well both the benefits and risks and know which one outweighs the other for you.

    I'm not sure what dood is trying to say in his post, but certainly the youtube video is not against, and if anything for, the use of steroids.
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    Dec 29, 2007 7:39 PM GMT
    But, that's not true for men. Testosterone protects the heart. Elsewhere on RealJock, I've quoted a variety of studies, numerous times.

    LVH (Left Venticular Hypertrophy / englarged heart ) is both desirable and a result of heavy training, in ANY athlete. Of course, you have to have a strong heart to be a good athlete. Having a larger heart is an adaptive response to training stresses, and not directly attributable to AAS. For crying out loud, engage brain before touching keyboard. DUH! After 33 years of weight training, I have LVH, and thankfully so. That's why, at 47, I can hold my heart rate at 160BPM on level 12 on the stairs for 20 minutes! DUH! That's why,...I'm in the top 2% nationally in fitness, and that's why my cholesterol is low on both sides (125/32), but..the ratios are very good. Before folks run off at the mouth, they need some clue as to what they're talking about instead of being Vaselined Sheep.

    I don't feel like rambling here, because ignorant folks often choose to remain ignorant, despite a plethora of facts, to the contrary, but here's the reality:
    Testosterone protects your heart (it's not estrogen, which is what you are talking about. In fact, it's the ratios that make the difference). Testosterone protects against a wide degree of aging diseases, including BP, cardiovascular, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's, and well as osteoporosis, and muscle wasting. It's not by coincidence that these hormones remain the treatment protocol of choice for the sickest of the sick, and those with the most fragile immune systems. They work, and with low risk, and low side effects, despite whatever brainwashing might have been done on some folks.

    If someone can show me the studies that support some of the preposterous claims made here, I'm happy to review them. They aren't there. In fact, studies, supporting just the opposite of what was said in this thread are all around, and I've quoted them elsewhere, and good muscle boards like professionalmuscle.com, have literally dozens of them.

    In fact, in study after study, of even the heaviest of AAS users have a lower mortality than the general population. They are among the fittest of the fittest; the healthiest of the healthiest. UNT has documented this extensively, as well as John Hopkins.

    It's sickening to see someone present garbage that has NO BASIS in fact.

    The reality is that being overweight is by far and way above way way way more dangerous than a butt load of AAS.

    That's why NOT ONE single organization recommended that AAS be controlled...not even the DEA itself.

    If we're truly interested in protecting the public well being fat, overweight, sports fans, drinking alcohol, smoking cigs, and having bean dip and chips, need to be locked up to protect them from themselves.(SIC). Let's compare apples to apples, and stop with the fear-mongering based upon here say. Like religion, the crap, and it is CRAP, put forth early in this thread is beyond ridiculous.

    What it gets down to is that juice is now part of the failed "war on drugs", with folks making big money in the whole game that entails, and willing to say just about anything to justify there existence, no matter if it's with zero virtue.

    It's not about savings lives but about creating more sick people, and more jobs for the extreme right wing. Any men over 28 should be looked at for anti-aging, should be exercising, and so on, and not pumped full of statins and so on. The whole medical systems if fubared. Sadly, so many more could be saved, if these therapies were started in the 20s.

    Dangerous is being fat. Dangerous is taking bp meds, cholesterol meds, pain pills, and so on. Dangerous is NOT remaining healthy and vibrant.

    Also GQJock gives horrible advice. If you're using, it's best to get on and stay on. Agromegaly is from to much GH, and only if you have the gene, not juice. Study up Litte Buddy. Gyno is from to much estrogen and is easily fixed with an anti-e. DUH! Where do you come up with this crap? Problems happen when you "cycle", and bounce yourself around. If you don't bounce yourself around, you don't deal with any of the fucked up shit of bouncing yourself around. To give such poor advice is idiocy.

    For whatever it's worth, I've had a testosterone prescription for years. I firmly believe it's allowed me to grow old gracefully, improved my health, and allowed me to train at the levels I wouldn't be able to otherwise. At 47, I wouldn't have it any other way.

    The Mitchell Reports was several million wasted on a witch hunt. That money would have been better spent educating fat people or helping the homeless. We truly have priorities fucked up in D.C.

    Science is, and will remain, an integral parts of sports, and aging. The days of growing old, getting fat, and lying in the recliner are OVER.

    In 33 years of being in the gym, I've not once seen "roid rage." I've seen some idiots, but, juice promotes a sense of well being, and anyone with any experience knows that. Now, if you're someone that was taught to be aggressive, and you mis-behave, "roid rage" becomes an "insanity" defense. I've never seen it. In fact, what I've seen is just the opposite, folks going from down in the dumps to full of vim and vigor. These hormones are mood enhancing, and it's all very well documented.
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    Dec 29, 2007 8:39 PM GMT
    It is very frustrating being stuck on a plateau that will not budge no matter how hard you work or having a goal that you can't reach. And then ofcourse, every gym has a god that people like me want to one-up just once.


    How big do you want to be?
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    Dec 29, 2007 8:50 PM GMT
    I have to add in one more thing -

    In today's message from the moderators of RealJock, they say in the lead-in to this thread "They make a body big".

    That's flatly untrue. While administration of testosterone does have a slight effect on lean muscle mass all by itself, it is exercise and nutrition which allows and encourages muscle to grow. Specifically, androgens improve protein synthesis and thereby aid in recovery from exercise, allowing the users to train harder - too hard for people who are not on androgens.

    Steroids are not some kind of magic muscle elixir. Like Cher used to say in a commercial years ago "if it came in a bottle, everyone would have a good body".

    - Joey
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    Dec 29, 2007 8:53 PM GMT
    If you're using steroids for vanity purposes, you're a loser. They're bad for you on many levels. I'd spend the money on a good therapist instead. And if you're using them to enhance your game, well, you're not really the athlete you say you are. Again, loser.

    Medical reasons? I have no problem with that, although I think I'd do my best to find alternatives, if possible.
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    Dec 29, 2007 10:58 PM GMT
    This whole issue really gets my guinea up. Yes there are side effects to roids and HGH and yes, some can be deadly. And so can diabetes, but that doesn't stop the millions of obese americans from downing coke & pepsi like it's water and from consuming massive quantities of Ben & Jerry's, and McDonald's, etc, etc.

    If you have anger issues, yes roids will magnify your anger issues, but so does alcohol and that's legal. I could go on & on about the legal things that can turn harmful and create societal issues.

    When used in moderation (small doses, short 8 week cycles) steroids can make a huge difference in your physique and your mental well-being. Woman can get breast implants, that have been known to burst, to enhance their self esteem and physical appearance. Why is it that I can not pop a bill or shoot myself in the ass or elsewhere to do the same?

    As far as the baseball scandal is concerned I think that's a real crock of...I find it ironic that the NFL teams have not been targeted. Doesn't anybody find that a little odd? If there's a group of men doing steroids it's them. Please don't tell me they got that big from creatine and protein shakes.

    The baseball team owners made ton's of money off these guys and now they're letting them be hung out to dry. The issue for many people is that it's cheating. Is it really? You still have to lift the weights and do the training and fine tune the diet. The roids just make your workouts more effective. Why shouldn't I do whatever it takes to be the best at my craft? If we could take a pill to make us smarter, who wouldn't?

    And this ideal that baseball players are role models for our children is a real joke. That went down the toilet with Dwight Gooden and Daryl Strawberry. read the results of study of the average steroid user in current issue of Muscular Development. Steroids do not run rampant in high school locker rooms as we have been led to believe.

    I think the reason the government has latched onto steroids is because we can't do anything about the real issues plaguing our country. Should we be focusing so much energy and resources on baseball players and small batch of guys in their 30's and 40's who are juicing or should we be concerned about getting the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan? Or getting affordable health care to the millions of Americans who do not have health insurance? Or how about the millions of Americans living below the poverty level? Or how about the fact that our choice for president next November will be between dumb & dumber? But no, we're all pissed off because Roger Clemens shot himself in the ass with testerone. You've got to be f----- kidding me.
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    Dec 29, 2007 11:50 PM GMT
    Exactly.

    Why would anyone want to feel crappy, get diseases of aging, be overweight, and inactive?

    What highsierrahiker says is appalling, and without any level of critical thought. Why do folks get their faces broken up in the name of beauty, shave their legs, get implants, have poison injected, eat right, etc? Does that make them losers? They do it to look and feel better, avoid disease, live longer, have a higher quality of life, and so on. Science is applied in every area sport. Using the best nutrition, equipment, clothing, technique, and training methods all make sense. Nothing could be more natural than testosterone. It's naturally occurring in every human. Could one say that about most other medicine? Of course not. Nothing could be more natural. Folks use it because it's safe, and it works. Perhaps highsierrahiker would do well to engage in some critical thinking next time.

    Who wouldn't want to look and feel good as they grow older especially if you were the healthier for it? THINK.

    And whoever thinks that cycling is the way to go is an idiot. Where you run into issues is bouncing yourself up and down. Best to stay one way or the other, but, not back and forth. Remember: testosterone, its deratives, and almost all injectables, are not toxic at NEARLY any level. Pills, be they AAS, statins, or Tylenol, are what cooks your liver because they are modified to be able to pass through your GI system. Tylenol is by FAR more toxic than almost any AAS, because of the way it's modified and because of what it is. Before you run off at the mouth, do your homework folks. Nothing ruins your liver, and causes muscle loss faster than statins (anti-cholesterol pills that work on the liver directly). It's a billion dollar plus business in the US. The very first thing my doctor did is to throw the statins in the trash. They are horrible for you. This is college / high school chemistry stuff. To hear folks make such out-of-their-ass proclamations is nuts.
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    Dec 30, 2007 12:16 AM GMT
    I have to laugh at the insanity of this.

    You can take a pill for erectile dysfunction, but, you can't take a shot nor pill to improve your nitrogen balance?

    You can take crack (Adderall) for ADD, but you can't take something that helps you recover from a workout?

    We have fat folks doing McDonald's (so much worse than juice could ever be) and yet we worried about baseball (arguably a game that's about as exciting as watching grass grow) take a little something that works to stay in the game / play the game better?

    How fucked up is all that?

    Have any of you seen the movie "Super Size Me?" You want to talk dangerous, let's talk fast food.

    The ignorance displayed here goes to show how easily led some folks are. It's sickening.
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    Dec 30, 2007 4:28 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidExactly.

    What highsierrahiker says is appalling, and without any level of critical thought. Why do folks get their faces broken up in the name of beauty, shave their legs, get implants, have poison injected, eat right, etc? Does that make them losers? They do it to look and feel better, avoid disease, live longer, have a higher quality of life, and so on. Science is applied in every area sport. Using the best nutrition, equipment, clothing, technique, and training methods all make sense. Nothing could be more natural than testosterone. It's naturally occurring in every human. Could one say that about most other medicine? Of course not. Nothing could be more natural. Folks use it because it's safe, and it works. Perhaps highsierrahiker would do well to engage in some critical thinking next time..


    Getting your face broken or poison injected into your body has nothing to do with health. It has do with vanity and our excessively shallow and superficial culture. Sorry if it hits too close to home Chuck, but roids are for losers.

    Just because testosterone is naturally occurring doesn't mean you need to juice up your body (and self-image) with it. Spend the money on therapy.
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    Dec 30, 2007 5:15 AM GMT
    It's interesting how you lash out. My self esteem is just fine. I was very built in high school (175 at 12%).

    Nothing wrong with wanting to look and feel good, to have a higher quality of life, and to grow old gracefully, while preventing needless disease.

    Perhaps one should be asking why you are so threatened by it.

    We can agree to disagree, but, once you become more informed, I'm willing to gamble that you won't maintain your current position.

    I'm doing exactly what I love doing. Whether it meets with your approval is really of little consequence to me.

    Being fat is for losers, but, I don't tell them to spend money on therapy. Your response is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you.
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    Dec 30, 2007 5:22 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidIt's interesting how you lash at. My self esteem is just fine. I was very built in high school (175 at 12%).

    Nothing wrong with wanting to look and feel good, to have a higher quality of life, and to grow old gracefully, while preventing needless disease.

    Perhaps one should be asking why you are so threatened by it.

    We can agree to disagree, but, once you become more informed, I'm willing to gamble that you won't maintain your current position.

    I'm doing exactly what I love doing. Whether it meets with your approval is really of little consequence to me.


    I don't really care what you do. I'm glad that you're happy. I'm not lashing out at you, certainly not the way I see you routinely lash out at people in these forums. I see you bag on people all the time for not having a pic. You rail against them in an almost comical way. So not having a pic is low self-esteem, but juicing yourself up on steroids is, what, healthy? Yeah, right.

    I don't think steroids are good for the body and nothing I've seen or been told by medical professionals, western or eastern, conventional or alternative, makes me think any differently. Sorry, but steroids won't prevent needless disease. Of course, you may find yourself on a dialysis machine a bit earlier in life...

    I'm not threatened by steroids. This thread is about our feelings toward them. I've given no indication that they threaten me. I think using them is stupid, but if you dig it, go for it! I won't stop you. Of course, if you interpret anyone who doesn't agree with you as being threatened, well, what can I say...
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    Dec 30, 2007 5:40 AM GMT
    In the medical field when you want an answer to a question you perform a literature search for an article that answers the question. In regards to this topic this is an excerpt from an article I selected. Hopefully this provides info on the subject to those who are interested.

    It is taken from the following:
    Heart. 2004 May; 90(5): 473–475.

    If AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroid) use is associated with an exaggerated LV (left ventricle) hypertrophic response to training, what are the likely health implications? They may be profound. In terms of non-cardiac morbidity, AAS use is associated with hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, baldness, acne, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance. Such drugs also have toxic effects on metabolic profile and hepatic structure and function,10 as well as potentially promoting neoplastic growth.10 Indeed, Parsinnen reported the 12 year mortality to be 12.9% among 62 male powerlifters suspected of AAS use, compared to 3.1% in a control population.16

    LVH is an independent risk factor for cardiovascular mortality and (through whatever mechanism) one might anticipate an excess cardiovascular mortality among AAS users in whom LVH occurs. In addition, the recognized association of AAS use with hypertension and dyslipidemia (raised low density lipoprotein and reduced high density lipoprotein cholesterol, and raised triglycerides),10 as well as influences on coagulation and platelet aggregation,10 might increase such risk. While it is debatable whether ASS use is indeed associated with an increased risk of premature cardiovascular death, 38% of the deaths in Parssinen’s power lifting group were attributed to “myocardial infarction”,16 while several case reports have attributed myocardial infarction in athletes to ASS abuse.
    In some cases, infarction has occurred without evident coronary thrombosis or atherosclerosis, leading to the hypothesis that ASS may induce coronary vasospasm in susceptible individuals.10 Similarly there are several case reports of increased thromboembolic risk.10 In a recent postmortem series of 34 AAS abusers aged 20–45 years (comprising 12 homicides, 11 suicides, 12 “accidental” deaths, and two of indeterminate cause), 12 of the deceased showed cardiac pathology. Findings included hypertrophy (7 cases), myocardial or endocardial fibrosis (5), cardiac steatosis (1), myocardial coagulation necrosis (2), and coronary atheroma (4). Cardiac changes were adjudged to have contributed to death by poisoning in two cases.17 However mediated, such a morbid burden is likely to rise with time. The US National Institute on Drug Abuse reported in 1999 that between 2.7–2.9% of year 8–12 high school teenagers had experimented at least once with AAS, representing a 38–50% rise since 1991.18
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    Dec 30, 2007 6:13 AM GMT
    Yes, and if you keep digging, you'll find that LVH is common in almost all athletes (just makes sense).

    Keep digging. If you spend any significant time on it, the truth will come to light very quickly.

    Google on the UNT study, done in 1999.

    There's strong evidence in subsequent studies that AAS protect your heart. You just haven't done your reading.

    The fact the usage is rising, despite insane penalties is evidence of a very failed drug policy. Driving it underground, lying and so on only makes it worse.

    At some point, the voice of reason should prevail, as well as compelling emperical evidence. Apples to apples, being overweight is incredibly more dangerous than any AAS could ever be.

    I remember being forced to watch "Reefer Madness."

    I also remember that for about 60 years, the label on testosterone from Steris Labs said "Does not enhance athletic performance."

    Spend time reading up this. Compare apples to apples. At some point, hopefully, the light will turn on.

    Protein and cholesterol values will change in the blood by the very nature of how these hormones work at a nuclear level. That would be expected. You also failed to mention that side effects are transitory and manageable. E.g., if you have the gene for baldness, DHT will move it along, but, if you don't have the gene it won't. Just like estrogen works for female birth control (for many years now), so does testosterone for men...again...common sense 101, and maybe not all that bad of a thing for those wanting it. The lying scare tactics are what's wrong.