Jettisoned- A government-run insurance option

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2009 6:05 PM GMT
    Great, so now we have a government program forcing us to buy an expensive insurance health care policy. What if you are out of work? Do you get fined? LOL Why didn't the Republicans think of this a long time ago to subsidize the insurance companies?

    Bail out wall street fat cats and retarded car companies, escalate war and a now free ride for Insurance companies
    .
    This is worse than any Republican presidency.
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    Dec 09, 2009 9:31 PM GMT
    Well the Republican's fucked it up again. icon_sad.gif
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 12, 2009 4:25 PM GMT
    "Government mandated insurance" has the same premise as Social Security: Almost everybody pays in, which helps to keep the costs down, and everybody's covered.

    People without health insurance now, who pays for their medical care ? TAXPAYERS.
    Under the "Public Option," people without health insurance, who would have paid for their medical care ? TAXPAYERS.
    Now that there's no "Public Option," people without health insurance, who will pay for their medical care ? TAXPAYERS.

    Less than 10% of Americans would have been eligible to take advantage of the "Public Option," anyway.

    What's the most ironic, is that the Republicans and the conservative Democrats who were whining that the tiny "Public Option" would mean the end of the world, APPROVED expanding Medicare to anyone 55 years old, or older, which is a HUGE government run Public Option.

    This screaming liberal Democrat says, "hooray !!"
    Expanding Medicare to cover 100% of Americans was what I was advocating, right from the start.
  • yogadudeSEATT...

    Posts: 373

    Dec 12, 2009 4:27 PM GMT
    Right on, Webster. I'm with you, brother.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 12, 2009 4:34 PM GMT
    Interesting history here.... When social security, medicare, etc was first proposed. I wonder who supported it, who whined... and who now agrees that it was a good idea to begin with.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Dec 12, 2009 4:59 PM GMT
    It does not matter whether republicans or democrats get elected. Both political parties are bought and controlled by big business and their special interest lobbies. While the GOP is controlled by the military industrial complex and the energy industry, the democrats are controlled by the auto industry, the insurance and banking giants, and the labor unions. So the average American is fucked no matter what because none of these political leaders gives a damn about the middle class, the working class, and the poor. I think it is time for alternative political parties like the libertarians and the greens and the independents to be put into political power on all levels of American government. Enough of both the democrats and the republicans.
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    Dec 12, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidGreat, so now we have a government program forcing us to buy an expensive insurance health care policy. What if you are out of work? Do you get fined? LOL Why didn't the Republicans think of this a long time ago to subsidize the insurance companies?

    Bail out wall street fat cats and retarded car companies, escalate war and a now free ride for Insurance companies
    .
    This is worse than any Republican presidency.


    sorry dude but 7 years of unecessary war got us more than enough debt. Maybe if 50% of your tax dollars didn't go to an above average military you wouldn't be in a mess.

    Also please tell me you and I would be better off if the largest banks and automobile companies went completely under? if tens of thousands more people were laid off?

    Pretty sure Republicans are now attempting to "protect Medicare"

    protect Medicare? socialists?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 5:06 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidGreat, so now we have a government program forcing us to buy an expensive insurance health care policy. What if you are out of work? Do you get fined? LOL Why didn't the Republicans think of this a long time ago to subsidize the insurance companies?

    Bail out wall street fat cats and retarded car companies, escalate war and a now free ride for Insurance companies
    .
    This is worse than any Republican presidency.


    Big Pharm, and Big Insurance, appears to be getting everything, and more, that they paid for in The Senate.

    It makes me sick that it's all so corrupt. It's beyond sickening that so much influence was bought.

    Now, they are going to FORCE folks (by law) to buy insurance they already could not afford, or face stiff penalties.

    We'll continue to line the pockets of the insurance companies by handing them 30%, needlessly, to act as a middle man, and to obstruct health care. In the end, and this is why nearly all other countries have had universal health care since the end of World War II, government is best suited to manage things that everyone needs.

    Sick and injured should NOT be the major profit center they are for Corporate America. Regular countries don't allow it and we shouldn't here, either.

    At some point, we have to say, enough of greed. How about doing the right thing for a change? Do we have socialized police, fire, roads, schools, libraries? Of course we do. It speaks more than a little bit poorly of us that we think more of property than of our citizens. We like to think we're better, but, a quick look abroad shows WE ARE NOT. We are a hateful, spiteful, vindictive, country in our health care system and in our criminal justice systems. They're two systems that clearly DO NOT WORK.

    With regard to debt, and war, one only need to look at history to see the budget surplus was during the times Democrats were in control. One only has to review that same history to see who always gets us in a war. The facts speak for themselves.

    The one thing that Republicans / Religious Right / big money do is that they make up stuff, and / or distort facts before a very gullible public. It's their primary method of motivation. FEAR is their primary marketing tool.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Dec 12, 2009 5:12 PM GMT
    Granted the military buildup in both Iraq and Afghanistan has caused ballooning federal deficits but the bailouts of AIG along with the auto industry because of irresponsible business practices and basically bad business decisions has pushed the federal debt far beyond stratospheric levels. Lets stop blaming just the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for all our financial problems and start blaming the costly bailouts of some of these big banks and automakers because that is where a lot of the ballooning deficit is coming from. Both the democrats and republicans are equally to blame for this latest financial fiasco in Washington.
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    Dec 12, 2009 5:22 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidGranted the military buildup in both Iraq and Afghanistan has caused ballooning federal deficits but the bailouts of AIG along with the auto industry because of irresponsible business practices and basically bad business decisions has pushed the federal debt far beyond stratospheric levels. Lets stop blaming just the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for all our financial problems and start blaming the costly bailouts of some of these big banks and automakers because that is where a lot of the ballooning deficit is coming from. Both the democrats and republicans are equally to blame for this latest financial fiasco in Washington.


    Oh, so you don't listen to any news. Lol. Those bailout dollars as you call them have almost completely been paid back. Good old Bank of America cut a check on Thursday for $45BB, a move which I voted for by the way. Now.....that $700BB or thereabouts is going to be used for other "bail out" purposes, i.e. social welfare. And borrowed no less.

    Those fine folks in Congress had a choice: they could have allowed TARP to expire on December 31.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 5:42 PM GMT
    Chase Bank REFUSED any of the funds, just FYI.

    The one thing about the GOP is they gossip, and play with the facts, and fear. More often than not, they prey on ignorant folks.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 6:10 PM GMT
    Making it criminal not to have insurance is a real stretch. I think it will get tested in the courts.

    Universal health care, without all the profit taking, would be a better choice. E.g., Medicare for all.

    The whole insurance thing stinks to high heaven. The insurance companies got the win: compulsory insurance, at whatever price they fix.

    What stinks about it is that we think more of our property (socialized fire departments) than we do of our sick and injured. That speaks volumes about us as a people, where, in regular countries, the health care question was answered decades ago.

    The power of marketing / propaganda / lobbying / bribes has really been demonstrated here. It cost the insurance companies millions but they will make BILLIONS.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 6:23 PM GMT
    This is bullshit. Mandating that everyone buy insurance they can't afford?

    Is it true that medicaid will be expanded for the poor, medicare will be expanded for older folks?. What about the people in the middle?

    Aside from a moral urgency of making insurance affordable for everyone, what about controling costs? People who don't or can't afford to buy insurance will still be there.

    I was hoping for health care reform, not tinkering around the edges. I wonder how our proud elected officials are going to explain this one.

    I'm disgusted.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 12, 2009 7:18 PM GMT
    "Bottom line re: this topic is that the federal government is not empowered by the constitution to compel citizens to purchase a product or service."

    *****Does the U.S. Constitution compel citizens to buy car insurance ? Of course not. Stupid Republicans are always trying to claim that, "If it ain't in the Constitution, then I don't have to comply." Well, you're obviously full of shit.
    _________________________________________________


    "Yup, if it passes it will definitely be tested in the courts, under the "takings clause" of the constitution."


    *****The "Takings Clause" contained in the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution almost exclusively has to do with the government "taking" (with compensation to the owner) private LAND for public use, such as roads, parks, etc.

    And, the Clause has seen a much broader interpretation under the more Conservative Republican Rhenquist U.S. Supreme court than under the liberal Democratic Warren Court.

    So, your assertion that it will be tested in the Courts is ridiculous, since the Roberts U.S. Supreme Court is even more Conservative than the Rhenquist Court.

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 12, 2009 7:23 PM GMT
    "Great, so now we have a government program forcing us to buy an expensive insurance health care policy. What if you are out of work?"
    ________________________________________
    --Where does it say that you will be forced to buy an EXPENSIVE health care policy ?
    --If your employer offers health insurance, that's where you will get it.
    --If someone is unemployed and can't afford health insurance, their medical care will be paid for by the taxpayers, JUST LIKE IT IS NOW.
    --If you're 55 or older, you will be covered by Medicare.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 7:31 PM GMT
    ________________________________________
    --If your employer offers health insurance, that's where you will get it.
    --If someone is unemployed and can't afford health insurance, their medical care will be paid for by the taxpayers, JUST LIKE IT IS NOW.
    --If you're 55 or older, you will be covered by Medicare.[/quote]

    Will there be affordable options for small/medium sized business to offer health insurance?

    Will part time, hourly wage employees have options?

    So the taxpayers will fund medicaid for people with no other insurance and costs will not be controlled and we all pay more and basicaly, nothing was fixed. Reform...yeah right. Medicare and Medicaid ARE government run programs. So its ok to say you are against a government takeover of the system and still support an expansion of existing ones? It doesn't make sense. The insurance companies are basically buying the votes of republican and democrats and forcing the federal government to pay for these programs and subsidies to help people buy insurance so that the money doesn't hurt their bottum line should they face competition from a public option insurance plan.

    The insurance companies won. I don't believe a public option would have put private insurance companies out of businees. It WOULD have put pressure on them to reduce profits. Mr.and Mrs Average American Idiot at those town hall meetings with guns and screaming about American rights basically were duped into supporting business as usual for the insurance corporations.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 7:49 PM GMT
    I believe the plan is to subsidize people who can't afford to buy insurance.

    The whole thing is a huge scam that, incredibly, rewards the insurance companies and Big Pharma. Remember, the latter has spent huge amounts to lobby FOR the bill.

    Read this column by Robert Reich, former Sec. of Labor, if you want to see what's happening with the health bill:

    http://tinyurl.com/yevzo64

    And, please, please read this long story by Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone about Obama's crawling into bed with Wall Street. It's pretty damn disgusting:

    http://tinyurl.com/y9csc7t
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Dec 12, 2009 8:14 PM GMT
    Like I said earlier, both the democrats and the republicans are tightly controlled by big business and their political lobbies. Both political parties could care less about the average American. As for making health insurance mandatory under the law, is our wonderful federal government going to help people who can't afford health insurance pay the astronomical costs or are our politicians just going to slap criminal penalties against those who can't afford their mandatory coverage. I would like to know.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Dec 12, 2009 8:35 PM GMT
    So basically, the new legislation benefits only one group of people - the baby boomers. What a shocker!!!! We've only been shaping every piece of public policy around these people for thirty years.

    The middle class who have lost their manufacturing jobs, working class families whose mortgages are underwater... none of their real pain matters.

    But... if you're a card-carrying member of the AARP (like most of our representatives), and you've already bankrupted our country with entitlement programs, poor leadership, and horrible lifestyle choices, step right up for your government-run health care.

    I really was hoping that once George Bush left office, there would be real "change" of some sort. But it's becoming more apparent day by day that the opposite is true. The only change that's happened in this country is that our decline into being a second-rate world power has been accelerated.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Dec 12, 2009 8:47 PM GMT
    You mean the wealthy segment of the baby boomers. Not all baby boomers are well off and enjoying the best of times. Quite the opposite, many baby boomers along with many of the somewhat younger Generation Xers are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. It is the wealthier segment of both the older and younger generations that are benefiting from all these government bailouts. Don't blame an entire generation for this serious crisis because that is flat out wrong.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 12, 2009 8:57 PM GMT
    As I said before, the irony is that by expanding Medicaid and Medicare and providing subsdies for people to buy health insurance, you ARE promoting a government run health insurance program.

    Its just than the insurance giants won't have to pay for it by reducing profits.....WE will have to pay for it as taxpayers and increasing the national debt.

    What a fucking joke.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Dec 12, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidYou mean the wealthy segment of the baby boomers. Not all baby boomers are well off and enjoying the best of times. Quite the opposite, many baby boomers along with many of the somewhat younger Generation Xers are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. It is the wealthier segment of both the older and younger generations that are benefiting from all these government bailouts. Don't blame an entire generation for this serious crisis because that is flat out wrong.


    With respect to health care, I'm blaming our leaders (who are mainly themselves boomers) for being so smitten that they've managed to forget just about everyone else.

    People your age are the "Jones" variant of the Boomer and have a totally different cultural identity. If you exclude that group, you end up with ages 55-63 (the people this convenient little compromise targets). They're the people I mostly blame for watching over the sinking ship.

    You're right that there are some people in their age group who are suffering because there are always exceptions to generalized statements. Just like there are some GenY-ers like me who don't have their faces glued to a Blackberry or iPhone all day. Mostly though, the main Boomers are the most privileged generation in history, and they've gotten that way because of the hard work done by the Greatest Generation and their ability to use numbers to force their collective sense of entitlement to become reality.