Why did I fall for someone who can't accept themselves?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2009 3:01 PM GMT
    It's taken a long time to get to this point and actually admit it happened, but why did I...fall for someone who can't accept themselves.

    We fell fast and hard, together, then it stopped a few months in; he remembered his religious roots. And here I am without him.

    Believe me, I thought it was my own person causing his aversion, but truthfully, I've been watching him suppress his feelings, and seek out God to become straight.

    Who else has had something similar happen?

    Is there any sort of salvation buried within the bible for gays?

    I'm not looking for a religious bashing; insight would be more helpful...

    icon_neutral.gif


    ~R.
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    Dec 14, 2009 3:15 PM GMT


  • drypin

    Posts: 1798

    Dec 14, 2009 3:26 PM GMT
    Answer A) The New Testament is full is packed with affirmations.

    Answer B) If you or the guy you fell for are looking for words to the effect, "Go forth and suck cock and prosper", then no, you won't find anything like that in the Bible.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 14, 2009 3:31 PM GMT
    secndtimearound saidIt's taken a long time to get to this point and actually admit it happened, but why did I...fall for someone who can't accept themselves.

    We fell fast and hard, together, then it stopped a few months in; he remembered his religious roots. And here I am without him.

    Believe me, I thought it was my own person causing his aversion, but truthfully, I've been watching him suppress his feelings, and seek out God to become straight.

    Who else has had something similar happen?

    Is there any sort of salvation buried within the bible for gays?

    I'm not looking for a religious bashing; insight would be more helpful...

    icon_neutral.gif


    ~R.



    You didn't mention the age of the guy, but you're only 23, so if he is around your age he is still young and coming to terms with his sexuality. If he has a strong religious upbringing than it's even a harder guilt-ridden transition. Unfortunately, these things can't really be rushed. People come to terms with being gay at different paces depending on all sorts of factors that affect their emotions and values and way of thinking. Try to be patient and a good friend as he deals with this in his own way.
  • vj2004t

    Posts: 203

    Dec 14, 2009 3:34 PM GMT
    I did some research for my self i am gay christian and these books helped me to put it all to bed and love myself for who i am. I used to have some hate and loathing for myself.

    In the first book start with the chapter called Scriptures. This book is very enlightening

    Highly recomment book by John Boswell, Christianity,Social Tolerance and Homosexuality, Covers Gay people from western europe to the beginning of the christian era to the 14th century. Extensive research from the texts in greek and hebrew.
    Answers questions like "Was Sodom & Gomorrah destroyed because of Homosexuality.

    Another one is "The Disease To Please" Cureing the people pleaseing syndrome, Harriet Braiker, PhD.
    New York Times Best Seller, People from the Disease to please are people who say "Yes" when they really want to say "No". For them, the uncontrollable need for the elusive approval of others is a addiction.

    Also have your friend check out the gay christian network gaychristian.net
    excellent resource. Click under resources there is another book I recommend called "The children are free" by the pastor of the MCC , Metropolian christian church. In Indiana Val
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2009 3:40 PM GMT
    Since you mention the Bible, I presume he's a Christian? Which denomination? Would he consider a different one?

    There are Christian churches that believe that being gay is not a sin, but natural and acceptable, and not in conflict with the Bible. He may be able to keep his core religious beliefs and be gay at the same time, which might help him become a better adjusted and happier person.

    Among gay and gay-friendly churches are the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC), the Unitarian, and some parts of the Episcopalian, Lutheran and other denominations. You have them all in the Chicago area, so do some research, find out their position regarding gays (the MCC is always gay), and see if you can persuade your BF to check them out.
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    Dec 14, 2009 3:44 PM GMT
    Unfortunately your friend has taken to listening to preachers who are narrow minded instead of researching those scripture verses that he fears. The abominations in the Bible do not refer to loving homosexuals but instead to homosexual sex in an effort to please the gods (ie: worshiping idols). The context is missed, as is the time and place. Those who feel threatened by these scripture verses seem to miss all the verses that the mosaic law states that are done on a regular basis in todays society despite the clear indication that the law prohibits them. They also miss the new testament proclamation that God makes through Christ that the greatest thing is love and that the law serves only as sort of the 'curb on the road' to keep us moving in the right direction of our faith.

    Most people tend to fear what others (especially family and church friends) will think if they come out as being gay and use scripture as their fail safe way of denying who they are. It might take him a while to really figure this out and it's something he has to want to do.

    Accepting who you are is the first step in being able to live in our society as a gay man. I think it is, by far, the most difficult step for a person to take, especially if they are older and have established themselves with family and friends as someone they are not (ie: a heterosexual man active in religion). Some here will argue that 'false belief systems' are the root of all evil, I don't believe that but I do think that organized religion in our society consists of many followers and few honest leaders.

    Good luck.
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM GMT
    This is just one of many web pages that may help.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bmar.htm
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    Dec 14, 2009 3:49 PM GMT
    Because .....

    (A) You like a good challenge
    (B) It's a dating habit/pattern
    (C) None of the above

    Ok. Don't worry about it and don't force the issue. If it is meant to be, then all will work out. No point mauling on it ....

    Peace and cheers

    A

    p/s
    You just cannot change anyone's religious beliefs -- especially the closeted gay ones. They all fear for their afterlife -- does not make any sense! Why hide and love in a str8 live, married with kids? Isn't this causing more SUFFERING .... love yourself and you shall find true love. Christ on a stick!!!
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    Dec 14, 2009 4:05 PM GMT
    secndtimearound said...Is there any sort of salvation buried within the bible for gays?

    Here's the web site for the MCC. Click on the left sidebar item Homosexuality and Bible for discussions of the questions you raise in your OP.

    Metropolitan Community Churches
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    Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM GMT
    n2briefs2 saidp/s
    You just cannot change anyone's religious beliefs -- especially the closeted gay ones. They all fear for their afterlife -- does not make any sense! Why hide and love in a str8 live, married with kids? Isn't this causing more SUFFERING .... love yourself and you shall find true love. Christ on a stick!!!
    I don't agree with you here, no offense please. In my opinion, I think the change with someone's faith (closeted or not) comes from education. Most homophobic church goers listen to the leader of their congregation and do not actually try to figure out for themselves what their religion really is or contradict what they are told. Ignorance is very dangerous. They're dangerously misguided but with some education and explanation, can change their views and understanding about homosexuality and scripture. This can help them accept who they are and share those feelings towards educating more people, starting with the ones they love.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM GMT
    Why? Because I think it is common, especially in your age range. When I was your age the same thing happened to me. It was my first dating relationship as a "gay man". Everything was going well and I knew he was practicing his religious faith, and I also attended church and considered myself Catholic.

    At about the sixth month he started to freak out a bit because he couldn't be gay and still be a Baptist, or so he thought. He just kind of had a bit of a break down, left my apartment, wouldn't return my phone calls, etc.

    A couple of months later his sister called me, and asked if I knew where he went of if I had seen him. He was completely missing those last few months. Mind you, I didn't even know his family even knew I existed. Of course all of this was devastating to me at the time, but then again I was still mad at him for shutting me out like that.

    Anyway, about 6 months later I see him all happy at a gay bar and he is in a relationship with someone who I would consider rough trade....if a twink could be rough trade. So I guess it.....alll....ended.....well?
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    Dec 14, 2009 4:17 PM GMT
    The advice and links that have been offered here are very good for everyone. I remember when I was dealing with being gay and my family/religious people, I had no coherent way to answer their bigotry and hatred. They had god on their side, and all I had was "this is me".

    So the advice given here is especially good for younger people who face the same challenges and condemnation from twisted religious and social philosophy.
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidThe advice and links that have been offered here are very good for everyone. I remember when I was dealing with being gay and my family/religious people, I had no coherent way to answer their bigotry and hatred. They had god on their side, and all I had was "this is me".



    Wow...such a familiar story...
  • MercuryMax

    Posts: 713

    Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM GMT
    LATTER DAYS: that looks like a great movie, i'm gonna have to hunt that one down somewhere....i love gay films that are more a than just about drugs, alcohol and sex.
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    Dec 14, 2009 5:31 PM GMT
    secndtimearound saidIt's taken a long time to get to this point and actually admit it happened, but why did I...fall for someone who can't accept themselves.

    We fell fast and hard, together, then it stopped a few months in; he remembered his religious roots. And here I am without him.

    Believe me, I thought it was my own person causing his aversion, but truthfully, I've been watching him suppress his feelings, and seek out God to become straight.

    Who else has had something similar happen?

    Is there any sort of salvation buried within the bible for gays?

    I'm not looking for a religious bashing; insight would be more helpful...

    icon_neutral.gif


    ~R.


    Because you're the same way: a picture-less, low esteem. You likely like folks like yourself, you find non-threatening, and in your comfort zone, although, at some point, you'd like to be better, and like to be less self-loathing, less conflicted, and more honest. Add false belief systems, and quilt, self-disdain, to all that and, of course, you're gonna' be head fucked. You have to decide if you want to get better, or not.

    You start that by ditching the false belief systems and moving towards truth / reality based belief systems. Get rid of the brainwashing, and the self loathing will follow, etc.
  • vj2004t

    Posts: 203

    Dec 14, 2009 5:38 PM GMT
    The movie "Latter Days" Will effect you in ways you wont believe. The most wonderfully written gay movie I have every watched. any guys that may feel beat up by the church and teachings should see it. It is also available on Netflix
    val
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    Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    eb925guy said
    n2briefs2 saidp/s
    You just cannot change anyone's religious beliefs -- especially the closeted gay ones. They all fear for their afterlife -- does not make any sense! Why hide and love in a str8 live, married with kids? Isn't this causing more SUFFERING .... love yourself and you shall find true love. Christ on a stick!!!
    I don't agree with you here, no offense please. In my opinion, I think the change with someone's faith (closeted or not) comes from education. Most homophobic church goers listen to the leader of their congregation and do not actually try to figure out for themselves what their religion really is or contradict what they are told. Ignorance is very dangerous. They're dangerously misguided but with some education and explanation, can change their views and understanding about homosexuality and scripture. This can help them accept who they are and share those feelings towards educating more people, starting with the ones they love.


    No offense taken. We can educate all we want but none will do good if our audience refused to listen. A "yankee" in the south for many many years now -- I deal with "them" daily.
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    Dec 14, 2009 5:51 PM GMT
    UGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    I hear you.

    The illiteracy of The South, combined with false belief systems, along with the arrogant ignorance that is SO prevalent, and the I,I,I,me,me,me world that so many folks in The South seem to live in, is enough to drive any person with half a brain crazy.
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    Dec 14, 2009 6:10 PM GMT
    MercuryMax saidLATTER DAYS: that looks like a great movie, i'm gonna have to hunt that one down somewhere....i love gay films that are more a than just about drugs, alcohol and sex.


    I just watched this a few weeks ago on Netflix; it was a phenomenal movie, one of the best gay themed films I've ever seen.
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Dec 14, 2009 6:13 PM GMT
    chuckystud said

    The illiteracy of The South, combined with false belief systems, along with the arrogant ignorance that is SO prevalent, and the I,I,I,me,me,me world that so many folks in The South seem to live in, is enough to drive any person with half a brain crazy.



    LOL...I can tell you've certainly been to at least one of the southern states. icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 14, 2009 6:38 PM GMT
    vj2004t said
    Highly recomment book by John Boswell, Christianity,Social Tolerance and Homosexuality, Covers Gay people from western europe to the beginning of the christian era to the 14th century. Extensive research from the texts in greek and hebrew.
    Answers questions like "Was Sodom & Gomorrah destroyed because of Homosexuality.


    Boswell is one of my favorite scholars to read. The book you mention is a great read.

    Louis Crompton's (who just died a month or so ago) Homosexuality and Civilization is an unparalleled book discussing the attitudes towards homosexuality in a variety of cultures, from ancient Greece, to Imperial China, and especial attention is given to Christian Europe from the first years of the Church to its waning in the Modern period.

    It is a great read. Everyone should check it out.
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    Dec 14, 2009 6:46 PM GMT
    n2briefs2 saidNo offense taken. We can educate all we want but none will do good if our audience refused to listen. A "yankee" in the south for many many years now -- I deal with "them" daily.
    Perhaps you're correct, I know the 'mid-east/west' falls into that category also. I guess I'm an optimist after all! LOL
  • westdave

    Posts: 212

    Dec 14, 2009 7:13 PM GMT
    you're like me....you're a nurturer.....think of it as a blessing in disguise...
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    Dec 14, 2009 7:49 PM GMT
    chuckystud said
    secndtimearound saidIt's taken a long time to get to this point and actually admit it happened, but why did I...fall for someone who can't accept themselves.

    We fell fast and hard, together, then it stopped a few months in; he remembered his religious roots. And here I am without him.

    Believe me, I thought it was my own person causing his aversion, but truthfully, I've been watching him suppress his feelings, and seek out God to become straight.

    Who else has had something similar happen?

    Is there any sort of salvation buried within the bible for gays?

    I'm not looking for a religious bashing; insight would be more helpful...

    icon_neutral.gif


    ~R.


    Because you're the same way: a picture-less, low esteem. You likely like folks like yourself, you find non-threatening, and in your comfort zone, although, at some point, you'd like to be better, and like to be less self-loathing, less conflicted, and more honest. Add false belief systems, and quilt, self-disdain, to all that and, of course, you're gonna' be head fucked. You have to decide if you want to get better, or not.

    You start that by ditching the false belief systems and moving towards truth / reality based belief systems. Get rid of the brainwashing, and the self loathing will follow, etc.


    Damn, Chucky...
    Your answer is pretty close to mine, and I'm tolerant. In my case, no pics yet cos I can't find any that look as good as I do. icon_lol.gif Until then, just hook up your cam if you are curious, or don't.

    I'm not so sure about the "self-loathing", lack of honesty or "self-disdain"...all this because of no pic?

    One thought that immediately came to mind, OP, is that I think your ex is either very confused or full of shit. "Seek out God to become straight" (?)You should have told him that he is gay because that is part of God's plan.

    How many times has this guy forgotten his "religious roots"? Probably over and over again...as many times as is convenient, I'm sure. Not your problem, OP. How can you put yourself in between your ex and his God? You can't. Brilliant excuse on his part. Sounds like a story line from an old Seinfeld episode. Ah, but you are probably too young to remember... icon_wink.gif