With Democrats like this, who needs Republicans?

  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Dec 17, 2009 1:50 AM GMT
    Dodd today announced that he was apparently not interested in reinstating Glass-Steagal - the Depression-era legislation that up until its repeal had prevented a second Great Depression, and upon its repeal, sent our economy tanking. Obama's off escalating wars (while accepting peace prizes) and cozying up to Goldman Sachs and Google (while speaking about populism). And the reported attempts by the Senate to reach a health care reform compromise by extending Medicare is the kind of no-action reform I'd expect from the other side.

    So I'm just curious... how much "change" were you expecting last January and am I wrong to feel slightly disenfranchised? How much more nonsense are you away from switiching your vote to a respectable third party?

    My favorite Log Cabin friends can of course take this time to gloat at me for being naive.

    icon_razz.gif

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 17, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
    A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for the Republicans.

    I am a Democrat who is sorely disappointed.
    These are desperate times which call for the kind of desperate measures that we haven't seen.

    Businesses are not hiring.
    THREE HUNDRED MILLION people are out of work.
    The only answer is to create new jobs.

    If I had been running the circus,

    ---I would have broken up all the banks that were claiming to be too big to fail, and then I would have bailed them out, imposing harsh conditions, such as firing every last CEO, capping salaries at something this side of the stratosphere, and imposing extremely harsh oversight regulations. And, I would have ordered them to renegotiate every sub prime loan so that people would not lose their homes.

    ---I would have bailed out the big 3 auto makers only if they agreed to make no cars that ran on gasoline.

    ---I would have opened factories in every state in the Union, to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, and electric car batteries.

    ---I would have converted all gas stations so that they could still sell gasoline, but also recharge electric car batteries, so that you could just drive in, have them pull out your weak electric car batteries, and drop in freshly charged batteries, taking no more time than it does to fill your tank with gasoline.

    ---I would have immediately brought the Gitmo detainees to the United States and dealt with them under United States law.

    ---I would have immediately ended the ground war in Afghanistan. Trying to beat the Taliban/Alqaeda on the ground is like playing Whac-A-Mole. We have the technology to pinpoint where the terrorist training camps are and bomb them from the air. That coupled with the vigilance of our FBI, CIA, etc. would keep us safe, here at home.

    ---I would impose sky high tariffs on all American businesses that manufacture their products overseas and ship them back here to sell. Make it in America, providing Americans with jobs, or pay the price.

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    Dec 17, 2009 7:22 AM GMT
    A Republican is a whore for the corporations, whereas a Democrat is a slut for the corporations. See the difference?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 17, 2009 7:45 AM GMT
    Sorry I am not a liberal.I am laughing at how these far lefties are so disappointed in Obama.If they think they are sad now..wait till Nov 2010.LOL
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    Dec 17, 2009 8:15 AM GMT
    Yes, hopefully a viable third party comes though. I think it is only inevitable that one should emerge.

    This is, after all, year one of Obama.

    It's time to throw out ALL the bastards, Democrat, Republican... they're all crooks working for the same people.

    Toss them aside and start anew, it's quite literally the ONLY hope you have for true reform and change through the political system.
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    Dec 17, 2009 5:58 PM GMT
    MeOhMy saidYes, hopefully a viable third party comes though. I think it is only inevitable that one should emerge.

    This is, after all, year one of Obama.

    It's time to throw out ALL the bastards, Democrat, Republican... they're all crooks working for the same people.

    Toss them aside and start anew, it's quite literally the ONLY hope you have for true reform and change through the political system.


    Agreed.
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    Dec 17, 2009 6:02 PM GMT
    MeOhMy saidYes, hopefully a viable third party comes though. I think it is only inevitable that one should emerge.

    This is, after all, year one of Obama.

    It's time to throw out ALL the bastards, Democrat, Republican... they're all crooks working for the same people.

    Toss them aside and start anew, it's quite literally the ONLY hope you have for true reform and change through the political system.


    100 % AGREED!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19122

    Dec 17, 2009 6:04 PM GMT
    I for one would be thrilled to see a viable third party emerge -- though I won't be holding my breath. I'd like to see 90% of congress fired and sent packing. Representatives from both parties have proven to be ineffective and not good for America at all.
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    Dec 17, 2009 6:26 PM GMT
    A third party wont ever happen.

    Shitty Democrats will be in power until we primary them out.

    We wont be able to primary them out until we take out the state party bosses.

    We wont take out the state party bosses until we take out the county party chairmen.

    We wont take out the state party chairmen until we take out the zone chairs.

    We wont take out the zone chairs until we run for committee and get liberals back in the Democratic party (how long can Bernie Sanders do it by himself?)

    Stop complaining and get involved.
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    Dec 17, 2009 6:34 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidA third party wont ever happen.

    Shitty Democrats will be in power until we primary them out.

    We wont be able to primary them out until we take out the state party bosses.

    We wont take out the state party bosses until we take out the county party chairmen.

    We wont take out the state party chairmen until we take out the zone chairs.

    We wont take out the zone chairs until we run for committee and get liberals back in the Democratic party (how long can Bernie Sanders do it by himself?)

    Stop complaining and get involved.


    Amen sister child.
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    Dec 17, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidA third party wont ever happen.

    Shitty Democrats will be in power until we primary them out.

    We wont be able to primary them out until we take out the state party bosses.

    We wont take out the state party bosses until we take out the county party chairmen.

    We wont take out the state party chairmen until we take out the zone chairs.

    We wont take out the zone chairs until we run for committee and get liberals back in the Democratic party (how long can Bernie Sanders do it by himself?)

    Stop complaining and get involved.


    See, you understand how it works.

    Oh, and TERM LIMITS FOR EVERY PUBLIC OFFICE.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Dec 18, 2009 4:50 AM GMT
    center saidA Republican is a whore for the corporations, whereas a Democrat is a slut for the corporations. See the difference?


    Republicans are smart enough to get paid?
  • wellwell

    Posts: 2265

    Dec 18, 2009 5:10 AM GMT
    center saidA Republican is a whore for the corporations, whereas a Democrat is a slut for the corporations. See the difference?




    "I see," sayeth the blind man . . .

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    Dec 18, 2009 5:28 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidA third party wont ever happen.

    Shitty Democrats will be in power until we primary them out.

    We wont be able to primary them out until we take out the state party bosses.

    We wont take out the state party bosses until we take out the county party chairmen.

    We wont take out the state party chairmen until we take out the zone chairs.

    We wont take out the zone chairs until we run for committee and get liberals back in the Democratic party (how long can Bernie Sanders do it by himself?)

    Stop complaining and get involved.



    You're right. All us liberals complaining and we're the worst voters. A little rain, too cold, too much of a line- we'll use any excuse not to vote. Those on the right are much more dedicated voters. Sometimes we have to look at ourselves when we place blame.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 18, 2009 5:38 AM GMT
    WickedRyan saidSorry I am not a liberal.I am laughing at how these far lefties are so disappointed in Obama.If they think they are sad now..wait till Nov 2010.LOL


    WHEN WILL PEOPLE LIKE YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR FAT HEADS THAT THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T PASS LEGISLATION ??????????????????????????

    THE PROBLEM(S) IS IN THE CONGRESS, NOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE !!!

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 18, 2009 5:41 AM GMT
    "Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama are trying to socialize our health care system."
    ____________________________________
    Please explain to me how they are doing this.
    Otherwise, you're a fuckin' LIAR.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 18, 2009 5:43 AM GMT
    " Rather, it is the baby boomer generation that is really messing things up. I think once enough of them have departed this earth, things will get much better."
    _____________________________________________
    How soon can you pack ?
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Dec 18, 2009 6:04 AM GMT
    Webster666 said" Rather, it is the baby boomer generation that is really messing things up. I think once enough of them have departed this earth, things will get much better."
    _____________________________________________
    How soon can you pack ?


    Technically, southbeach is Generation Jones.
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    Dec 18, 2009 5:38 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Webster666 saidWHEN WILL PEOPLE LIKE YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR FAT HEADS THAT THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T PASS LEGISLATION ??????????????????????????

    THE PROBLEM(S) IS IN THE CONGRESS, NOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE !!!


    Hey "fathead"....

    The President signs legislation passed by Congress into law.

    If he vetoes it, Congress can override the veto.


    so as Webster said and you have just confirmed the President doesn't pass legislation. Were you trying to make a point beyond being an echo?
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    Dec 18, 2009 6:10 PM GMT
    MeOhMy saidYes, hopefully a viable third party comes though. I think it is only inevitable that one should emerge.

    This is, after all, year one of Obama.

    It's time to throw out ALL the bastards, Democrat, Republican... they're all crooks working for the same people.

    Toss them aside and start anew, it's quite literally the ONLY hope you have for true reform and change through the political system.


    Couldn't agree more. They are all scum and only out for their own political and financial gain - the last thing they have in mind are their constituents. I stopped being surprised when poloticians said one thing a did another a long time ago. We need term limits.
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    Dec 19, 2009 5:52 AM GMT
    The American political process is a fascinating thing to observe; however, also very frustrating. One party comes to power, and almost immediately it sells out to big corporations and big banks. Then everyone generally agrees they are corrupt, and are then replaced with the other party, which then does the exact same thing. The people get fed up, and then switch them again as if to expect actual change. Albert Einstein said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

    The American political system is insane.

    Former Georgetown Professor, Historian, and mentor to Bill Clinton, Carroll Quigley, wrote in his monumental Tragedy and Hope, that:

    "The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one perhaps of the Right, and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

    In July of 2008, a Rasmussen pole revealed that 9% of Americans approved of Congress; both parties were equally hated. The United States was engaged in two major overseas wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and general discontent for the way that America acted in the world was growing. Americans were starting to see the imperialism that much of the rest of the world has seen and experienced. And the people wanted change. The American empire, and major entrenched financial interests behind it, was threatened.

    Then came Obama. Like a well-packaged celebrity delivered with a bow on top; he was a product of Wall Street and sold to the people like a product. Words and rhetoric like "hope" and "change" were used to rally the people, who justly wanted those things. But once in power, this product quickly fell apart, and continued all the war and imperial policies of the previous, rearranging deck chairs on the titanic; sold the country to the banks, who already owned it, but now raped it of 23.7 TRILLION dollars. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aY0tX8UysIaM

    Obama was put in place to pacify resistance to the American empire, and siphon off the growing demand for change. Just think, during the Bush years, Americans were so divided along "party lines"; however, in the later years, most Americans equally hated both parties. The "system" was threatened, while Americans were starting to be united.

    Now, almost one year after Obama came into power, Americans are seemingly more divided than ever; both pointing at each other as the roots of the problems, while failing to see that the problem is systemic; and therefore, so too must the change be systemic, not illusory and surface-oriented.

    Time for real change.
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    Dec 19, 2009 6:05 AM GMT
    I think what's sad is the lack of comity on every side. Liberals think that conservatives are evil, and conservatives think that liberals are hippy idiots. Republican's think that Democrats want to live in a white tower where every person gets a piece of the pie no matter how little they contribute, Democrats think Republicans want to rule the world through corporations. On and on.

    I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. What I would really like to see are people who are willing to compromise on both sides of the aisle, and leave the extreme views on the extreme ends where they belong.

    This isn't likely to happen. So, I'll continue to vote and contribute money to both Democrats and Republicans that are ethical and vote with principle. But, mostly, I'll do my part by being an educated voter.
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    Dec 19, 2009 6:06 AM GMT
    . . . ok, so tell us, MOM, what would real change be? . . .

    . . . any sensible person could spot Obama the Cynic a mile away, and any sensible person knows that the Bushes are a family of operators and half-wits (Neal, especially) . . .

    . . . so, do tell, what is your wonder drug?
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    Dec 19, 2009 6:16 AM GMT
    Two words: TERM LIMITS!

    These politicians become enamored with power, lose all sense of reality and forget who they are there to serve. Without limits, no other political party ever will get a chance to break through and bring a sense of reform, accountability and fresh ideas to Washington.

    In addition, real campaign finance reform is needed to level the playing field and give minor-party candidates a real chance to be heard and elected.

    Finally, terms need to be lengthened. A representative arrives and soon finds himself immersed in a re-election campaign after less than 6 months in office. Let these people learn and get something done before they need to start raising money and running all over again. Two years is too soon. The opposition party simply needs to stick its foot out and wait for the party in power to trip, and a new cycle of power switching begins anew. Don't you think the dynamics would be different right now if the next election cycle was two or more years away? Everyone would be more focused on the task at hand than waiting out the clock and playing political games.

    Unfortunately, the two parties will never go for these changes and risk their hold on power. A grassroots movement is needed to bubble up these constitutional changes through the states. We need this generation's version of Ross Perot to come forward, rile up the people and serve as a catalyst for grassroots movements to get energized, organized and empowered. Let's go!
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    Dec 20, 2009 3:03 AM GMT
    noren said . . . ok, so tell us, MOM, what would real change be? . . .


    Well, to be honest, that is for Americans to decide. However, I am an advocate of this need for change everywhere, since I see the same systemic problems around the world; they just differ to varying degrees in varying places.

    However, so as not to cop out on answering, I will provide an answer. First off, I must say, I don't know what the solution is, but from analyzing the problems, the solutions tend to point in a particular direction for me.

    As i said previous, the problems are systemic. I see them as inherent in the global socio-political-economic order. It is not relegated simply to the United States, however, the United States is the current global hegemon, and as such, is the most important country when it comes to understanding the current nature of the issues.

    SOME major systemic issues:
    * Imperialism - both economic and political; whether done through the World Bank/IMF or through overt war policies or covert intelligence operations, or for that matter, through NGOs and "aid" agencies.
    * Oligopoly capitalism - rule by the few over the many; the global economic system is an oligarchy on an international scale, run by and for the major international banks and corporations
    * Poverty - as of 2005, more than 3 billion people live on less than $2.50 a day. Poverty is the greatest social, environmental, economic, political and HUMAN problem in the world

    Personally, I feel that reform through the established political systems is not going to work. The political systems are designed in such a way as to prevent any true reform and change; national polities are DESIGNED to maintain the status quo and prevailing order, not challenge it. They represent the invested interests, not the people. The "party" system itself is a mockery of democracy.

    I am, perhaps, well... admittedly, more radical in my beliefs. I feel that the time has come for all people around the world to resist against their political-economic systems; to create their own parallel institutions and systems, but on a local level. To have a more locally organized and operated political and economic system would give the people of a given locality a direct influence and stake in their own political economy.

    Put simply: the people of a given locality, whether that is town, city-state, or what not, should determine the social, political and economic decisions that are made, which effect them and their environment. National governments themselves are too large and centralized to even pretend to represent all the people within: why should someone in Ottawa (or Washington D.C.) make decisions that affect people in Newfoundland, BC, or Quebec when they have never been there or know the situation and lives of those people? The more centralized and the larger governance systems get; the more out-of-touch, distant, oppressive they become towards the people they purportedly represent, and the more they then serve global financial interests.

    If the people took back governance, took back the polities, took back the economy, and the social structure; poverty would be a priority, mutual benefit for all would be a priority, true democracy could occur, and diversity would flourish, the environment would be cared for, while war and conflict would erode immensely. While there would still be corruption on a local level, or in any position of authority, the effects of decisions made by someone in a city-state regarding say, agricultural policy, are far less likely to have such devastating effects of agricultural policy as determined by say, the World Bank or World Trade Organization, whose decisions on such a policy area often cause famine and death.

    In all honesty, I feel that the nation-state system is lost. Unfortunately, the general trends are that it is being eroded internationally, but in the direction of forming more continental systems and international systems of governance, further removing power from the people.

    While I do not yet have a blueprint for how such a thing could come about, there are examples from around the world of how local democracies, local economies, local currencies, local polities and local communities can do so much with so little. I feel that bringing power back to the people is only possible by bringing decision-making abilities to the community; and that, ultimately, the solution is with the people.

    There can not be any ONE solution, or one prescription for success. On a local level, I think that both a socialist system or a free-market system could conceivably work as intended; but on a national or international level, both would fail in the stated goals, and only serve the interests of national or international elites.

    So, put simply. The answer, the solution... is the people.