With all of the science, how do people beleive in god?

  • bijockmuscle

    Posts: 656

    Dec 17, 2009 1:38 PM GMT
    Can anyone reconcile the 2? I for one believe in science...man created god
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:17 PM GMT
    It's easy to reconcile both concepts when you realize science is just there to tell you HOW things happened, and not why or by whom.
    When you study chemistry, physics or astronomy, and you realize all of the strange "coincidences" that appear everywhere in the universe and that when summed up allow life to exist, and how everything is organized and balanced so carefully, then the idea of an Intelligence designing all these fundamental laws and forces flows almost naturally.

    Now, if you're talking about science and religion, yeah, they oppose each other every time religion sacrifices truth and evidence in favor of preexisting dogmas and ancient myths. And in this you would be right, man created religion.

    But a Creator, that's another story. I'd think that the complexity of the design of the Universe would be evidence for a superior intelligence, not for the opposite.
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:18 PM GMT
    People believe because they're IGNORANT
  • bijockmuscle

    Posts: 656

    Dec 17, 2009 2:18 PM GMT
    ikaros saidIt's easy to reconcile both concepts when you realize science is just there to tell you HOW things happened, and not why or by whom.
    When you study chemistry, physics or astronomy, and you realize all of the strange "coincidences" that appear everywhere in the universe and that when summed up allow life to exist, and how everything is organized and balanced so carefully, then the idea of an Intelligence designing all these fundamental laws and forces flows almost naturally.

    Now, if you're talking about science and religion, yeah, they oppose each other every time religion sacrifices truth and evidence in favor of preexisting dogmas and ancient myths. And in this you would be right, man created religion.

    But a Creator, that's another story. I'd think that the complexity of the design of the Universe would be evidence for a superior intelligence, not for the opposite.


    chaos theory says otherwise...choas creates organization
  • 1man

    Posts: 140

    Dec 17, 2009 2:29 PM GMT
    ariesnvancouver saidPeople believe because they're IGNORANT


    I know that's right!!!
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:29 PM GMT
    ariesnvancouver saidPeople believe because they're IGNORANT


    no no no... They believe because, for what ever reason, they WANT to believe. All of the data is pressed into the paradigm. You have ignorant believers and highly erudite believers. Erudite non believers. And ignorant non believers.
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:33 PM GMT
    I once took a class in the evolution and biochemical machinery of genetic disease

    and the professor made a joke out of creationists a lot by saying things like 'and here's the absolute proof that no god exists....No god would be so cruel as to design such a horribly complex system for you guys to memorize' He got into trouble a couple of times for it...

    But looking at medical picture after picture of deformed and retarded animals and humans and learning that biology is about as far from a perfect design as you can get, and that I'm here today because of the millions of evolutionary mistakes over 10,000 years. I understood his point perfectly

    I thought it shear insanity that someone would believe that humanity was created by some divine being in his image. I mean there is so much wrong medically with people as they are today...and that's after undergoing a steady pace of improvement for the last 10,000 years. Atheism made sense, religon didn't.....

    I think that it's ego that props a lot of religions up, people are just too proud to admit their flaws and the flaws of the human race icon_neutral.gif
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:34 PM GMT
    i'm glad some other ppl think this. This past thanksgiving.. i of course decided to drop... "i don't believe in god" in front of my family, and some family friends.. all jewish.. and my future brother in law who is orthodox.. and omg shit hit the fan.

    He started asking me questions on what i believe.. i told him all about the science.. and then he questioned me on how do you explain evolution.. mutations, and change. AND since i'm taking (just finished) my cellular physiology course.. i explained to him the processes on mutations and change on the cellular level. They were all dumbfounded. it was great!

    WIN!! glad to know all that money i'm spending for my education is starting to come to some good use
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:35 PM GMT
    ariesnvancouver saidPeople believe because they're IGNORANT


    THAT'S a pretty ignorant thing to say...
    And even if man did create God, that's no reason not to believe.
    The human brain is amazing in what it can retain as knowledge, but the heart knows things too. Man "created" love... but it real too isn't it?
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:37 PM GMT


    *cheezy smarmy grin* ...Unless of course, you believe that god invented (pedestrian term) chaos. Or that science explains god's complexities in the most marvelous ways. icon_wink.gif

    god: 1 science: 1
    religion: 0
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:39 PM GMT
    Mostly, people believe because they're born into it and raised with it and superstition is a very hard thing to shake.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Dec 17, 2009 2:45 PM GMT
    I believe BECAUSE of all the scientific evidence. Most of the professors that I had in college that taught physics and astronomy had their religious belief system.

    My quantum physics professor was adamant about it and we talked a great deal about his beliefs. He could not believe, in knowing what he already knew about the fabric of reality, that there is not a divine design. No matter how far we look, even into the material of a quantum, there is an "invisible hand" at play.
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:46 PM GMT
    The curvature of the earth was at one time invisible too. It used to come to a screeching halt where ships and people would fall into the abyss.
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    Dec 17, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    ikaros saidIt's easy to reconcile both concepts when you realize science is just there to tell you HOW things happened, and not why or by whom.


    The 'whom' could be anything from Zeus to the Divine Pink Bunny who shit all of creation into existence. You certainly can't disprove the idea the Divine Pink Bunny shit all of creation into existence, can you?
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:01 PM GMT
    bijockmuscle said

    chaos theory says otherwise...choas creates organization


    No man, chaos theory talks about the near impossibility of predicting future behavior in some complex systems, and how the future stages of a system depend almost exclusively on its initial conditions. It has nothing to do with how things are actually organized.

    But science IS organized, and the more you study any science the more you see very complex patterns of design.

    Even when we think of evolution as a system of trial and error that has led us to the apparently complex life forms that we have today, regardless of how nasty looking the mutations and genetic deformities can be, we're still talking about a complex system that uses random trial and error in conjunction with natural selection to develop very complex forms of life.

    I'm not saying the universe and life on earth were not created as a result of applying Murphy's law. It does seem that every process just runs its course without the unexplainable and mysterious hand of a "God".
    What I'm saying is, who created all these processes and laws of nature in the first place, as well as the fundamental laws of physics, and all the ordered reality that allows even random chance to create the complexity we have today?
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:02 PM GMT
    Celticmusl saidI believe BECAUSE of all the scientific evidence. Most of the professors that I had in college that taught physics and astronomy had their religious belief system.

    My quantum physics professor was adamant about it and we talked a great deal about his beliefs. He could not believe, in knowing what he already knew about the fabric of reality, that there is not a divine design. No matter how far we look, even into the material of a quantum, there is an "invisible hand" at play.


    This. icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:03 PM GMT
    ikaros said
    What I'm saying is, who created all these processes and laws of nature in the first place,


    Why assume a 'who' that created?
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:05 PM GMT
    center said
    The 'whom' could be anything from Zeus to the Divine Pink Bunny who shit all of creation into existence. You certainly can't disprove the idea the Divine Pink Bunny shit all of creation into existence, can you?


    You're absolutely right. The 'whom' could be anything. It could be the FSM.
    I'm not saying he has a beard, or that he is a he, or that he even has a personality.
    I'm saying there is an Intelligence behind the development of the Universe.
    It would be funny if such a Designer was a pink bunny, THAT's a reality I'd be proud to belong to icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:05 PM GMT
    ikaros said
    center said
    I'm saying there is an Intelligence behind the development of the Universe.


    Based on what evidence?
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:07 PM GMT
    center said
    ikaros saidIt's easy to reconcile both concepts when you realize science is just there to tell you HOW things happened, and not why or by whom.


    The 'whom' could be anything from Zeus to the Divine Pink Bunny who shit all of creation into existence. You certainly can't disprove the idea the Divine Pink Bunny shit all of creation into existence, can you?


    Of course you can disprove the idea:
    bunnies are not pink.
    and mount olympus is simply a mountain range in greece. it does not contain the home of the gods ie zeus doesn't exist unless he's moved to a another location and we just have not been told as yet.

    idea disproved.
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:11 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Of course you can disprove the idea:
    bunnies are not pink.


    Until and unless you have actually seen the Divine Pink Bunny, you are merely pulling random nonsense out of your ass. Only the TRUE(tm) believers in the Divine Pink Bunny could actually see Hir.
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:13 PM GMT
    center said
    ikaros said
    What I'm saying is, who created all these processes and laws of nature in the first place,


    Why assume a 'who' that created?


    it has to be a who, because only intelligence could have created it.

    and if intelligence created, then ergo such intelligence shows personality.

    so we have a who

    now you can argue that the who doesn't necessarily follow that it's the judeo/christian concept of God. And that I would grant.

    except that He fits the best decription
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    center said
    ikaros said
    only intelligence could have created it.


    Says who? You?


    Blackguy4you said
    now you can argue that the who doesn't necessarily follow that it's the judeo/christian concept of God. And that I would grant.

    except that He fits the best decription


    You don't even have proof your god exists. You must first prove its existence, before claiming it fits 'the best description.'
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:15 PM GMT
    zsocerstar saidi'm glad some other ppl think this. This past thanksgiving.. i of course decided to drop... "i don't believe in god" in front of my family, and some family friends.. all jewish.. and my future brother in law who is orthodox.. and omg shit hit the fan.

    He started asking me questions on what i believe.. i told him all about the science.. and then he questioned me on how do you explain evolution.. mutations, and change. AND since i'm taking (just finished) my cellular physiology course.. i explained to him the processes on mutations and change on the cellular level. They were all dumbfounded. it was great!

    WIN!! glad to know all that money i'm spending for my education is starting to come to some good use


    I am curious as to why you declare this a WIN! Did they give up their belief? Did it change them in any way?
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    Dec 17, 2009 3:16 PM GMT
    It is ignorant to assume that "science" replaces God. Most of the great scientists of our times, Albert Einstein included, are adamant when they confirm that there must be a God. Furthermore, if you study Catholic or Jewish Theology, you will come to realise that there is no major conflict.