Unbiased source confirming what vegans always knew.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 3:24 PM GMT
    http://news.aol.com/health/story/_a/nonfat-low-fat-milk-linked-to-cancer/20080102175409990001
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 5:53 PM GMT
    "while whole milk decreased this risk."

    And also confirming the benefit of saturated fat in the diet.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 6:01 PM GMT
    I disagree with that party of the study of course, but nonetheless I am glad to see the bulk of the study proves my point all along.

    Soy Milk = Healthy, Prevents Osteoperosis, Cancer.

    Cow's Milk = Unhealthy, Leads to Osteoperosis, and Cancer.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 6:03 PM GMT
    Saturated fat is not good for you, but can be found in small amounts from vegetables, nuts, and seeds. So vegans too get saturated fat, just healthy amounts as opposed to the bulk of saturated fat in meat and dairy products.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 6:44 PM GMT
    Soy Milk = Healthy, Prevents Osteoperosis, Cancer.

    Cow's Milk = Unhealthy, Leads to Osteoperosis, and Cancer.


    No, that is not what the study showed at all. It did not establish causality as clearly stated in the last paragraph. There is so much wrong with the dairy industry and the amount and quality of dairy consumed; but it is silly to broadly say 'milk is bad' especially when the study only showed there was a statistical link between cancer and certain kinds of milk.

    I wont worry though, as milk is freakin' disgusting.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
    I will still have my milk in the morning with cereal. I frankly ignore a lot of scientific studies on health risks since there are so many other factors that impact on ones health. For example genetics, stress, existing medical conditions, etc.. I took too many courses on the design of experiments and statistics not to take a jaundiced eye on the use of them to try and prove a point (or sell a product). Remember oat bran?

    Life is far too precious and short to deny ones self what one enjoys (as long as it is in moderation). The only exceptions I will make are illicit drugs and cigarettes since they are very addictive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 10:20 PM GMT
    Of course jbed many factors go into health. However 98% of illness and degenerative disease is from diet alone. Genetics, in my opinion plays a very small part.

    That being said, why have milk when there are delicious and healthy alternative like soymilk, rice milk, almond milk, etc? I mean suit yourself, but cow juice is gross and I will stay from away from that shit.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 10:22 PM GMT
    I have to disagree with the wonders of soy milk. Honestly, we are not designed to drink milk after we have been weened off of our mothers. That said, I still love the stuff.

    I am a proud meat eater and grow tired of vegans pounding the blessed soy bean into my head. I think that soy has made its way into way too many foods and has been over processed and over farmed.

    Most modern soy foods are not fermented to neutralize toxins in soybeans, and are processed in a way that denatures proteins and increases levels of carcinogens.

    Phytic acid in soy foods results in reduced bioavailabilty of iron and zinc which are required for the health and development of the brain and nervous system.

    Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system.

    Like all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile lysine.

    Soy foods can cause deficiencies in calcium and vitamin D, both needed for healthy bones.

    Numerous animal studies show that soy foods cause infertility in animals.

    Soy consumption enhances hair growth in middle-aged men, indicating lowered testosterone levels.

    Most soy beans grown in the US are genetically engineered to allow farmers to use large amounts of herbicides.

    As you can see. I am the anti-soy. If you are looking for a vegan protein source, I would try hemp.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 10:44 PM GMT
    I'm considering going vegetarian, but would draw the line at soy. Soy milk tastes great, but my reaction to it is has always been similar to what someone who is lactose intolerant would have to milk. So I pretty much think soy is the devil. Any more than a single small helping of tofu means hours of agony and even that small helping means I don't want to be around anyone for a good 6-8 hours. Has anyone had a similar experience?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 10:46 PM GMT
    what isn't linked to cancer these days?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 11:22 PM GMT
    rby71 you may be allergic to soy it is one of the more popular allergens. try rice milk, almond milk, and hemp seeds or hemp milk. all nuts and seeds are great protein sources.


    Djbens a lot of what you said is inaccurate
    .
    "Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system."

    There are two types of cholesterol, and our bodies make their own cholesterol naturally. Animal products only have the bad cholesterol. Plant based products have zero of it.

    "Like all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile lysine."

    Soy is a complete protein containing all "essential" amino acids. The rest of the amino acids our own bodies make. Plus you can those amino acids from other sources. Just because one thing doesn't have every single nutrient does not disqualify it as a great food.

    "Soy foods can cause deficiencies in calcium and vitamin D, both needed for healthy bones."

    This is terribly misinformed as soy consumption has been shown to increase the levels of calcium and vitamin d consumption.


    All that being said it is best to get whole organic soy, the processed and genetically modified stuff is bad. The pure soy is very healthy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 11:30 PM GMT
    People have been drinking milk for 10,000 years and suddenly it's a killer?

    Oh my.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 11:37 PM GMT
    jprichva saidPeople have been drinking milk for 10,000 years and suddenly it's a killer?

    Oh my.


    people have been DYING for 10,000 years, too. That is ALL the proof you need.

    I've also noticed humans haven't known how to fly for the last 10,000 years either. Super powers, here we come!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 11:38 PM GMT
    Here's an article in the telegraph from the Government Cancer Research Agency of NSW indicating that soy products accelerate tumor growth in Breast and Prostate cancer patients

    Daily TelegraphCANCER patients are being warned to avoid foods rich in soy because they can accelerate the growth of tumours.

    The Cancer Council of NSW will issue guidelines today, warning about the dangers of high-soy diets and soy supplements for cancer patients and those people in remission from cancer.

    At particular risk are people suffering from hormone-dependent cancers, including breast and prostate cancer - the two most common types of cancer in Australia.



    [url]http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21054484-5001021,00.html
    [/url]
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Jan 03, 2008 11:46 PM GMT
    hippie4lyfe said
    That being said, why have milk when there are delicious and healthy alternative like soymilk, rice milk, almond milk, etc? I mean suit yourself, but cow juice is gross and I will stay from away from that shit.


    Though these are great tasting alternatives, why do they call it milk? Milk comes from mammory glands, and I don't think I've ever seen teats on an almond or a grain of rice. Further, if we consume too many phytoestrogens (which comes from soy products) though good for us in moderate doses, we can get great, jiggly man boobs.

    One of the main things I don't like about soy, rice, and almond juice is that it doesn't last that long once it's opened. Besides that, it's nummy stuff.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2008 11:49 PM GMT
    sickothesame said

    people have been DYING for 10,000 years, too. That is ALL the proof you need.


    Oh, so soy milk will grant me Eternal Life. Hey, sign me up!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2008 1:53 AM GMT
    Auryn said:

    Though these are great tasting alternatives, why do they call it milk? Milk comes from mammory glands, and I don't think I've ever seen teats on an almond or a grain of rice. Further, if we consume too many phytoestrogens (which comes from soy products) though good for us in moderate doses, we can get great, jiggly man boobs.


    Well first off its called milk because it is a good marketing strategy and is similar to cows milk and therefore a good way to get lactose intolerant, health oriented people, and vegans to purchase it. Second it is milk because the soybeans are soaked and bagged and drained in the bag. The process is similar to milking.

    When I make almond milk I soak my almonds overnight, please them in a cheesecloth and squeeze out the liquid.

    Lastly the jiggly man boobs is the biggest MYTH. No scientific study has ever proven men develop breasts from soy, I am happy to say i consume tons of soy and my chest is nice and flat lol.
  • vince_the_cyc...

    Posts: 126

    Jan 04, 2008 2:07 AM GMT
    Man, these vegetarian debates are getting old!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2008 2:10 AM GMT
    AMT87 saidHere's an article in the telegraph from the Government Cancer Research Agency of NSW indicating that soy products accelerate tumor growth in Breast and Prostate cancer patients

    [quote][cite]Daily Telegraph[/cite]CANCER patients are being warned to avoid foods rich in soy because they can accelerate the growth of tumours.

    The Cancer Council of NSW will issue guidelines today, warning about the dangers of high-soy diets and soy supplements for cancer patients and those people in remission from cancer.

    At particular risk are people suffering from hormone-dependent cancers, including breast and prostate cancer - the two most common types of cancer in Australia.



    [url]http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21054484-5001021,00.html
    [/url][/quote]

    accelerate the growth of tumors, meaning they have to be already existing in the body... does it say it creates tumors?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2008 6:59 PM GMT
    hippie4lyfe saidI disagree with that party of the study of course, but nonetheless I am glad to see the bulk of the study proves my point all along.

    Soy Milk = Healthy, Prevents Osteoperosis, Cancer.

    Cow's Milk = Unhealthy, Leads to Osteoperosis, and Cancer.


    Soy is *not* healthy. In small amounts, it's fine, but we totally abuse it in this country. There's a mountain of evidence that soy leads to all sorts of health problems and it's especially not good for men because of the way it acts on estrogen in the body. So, the occasional glass of soy milk is ok, or some tofu at dinner, or whatever, but a soy latte, followed by a soy burger, followed by... is dangerous. As someone else pointed out, you want to consume fermented soy because of the health risks associated with unfermented soy products.

    If you're going to drink cow's milk, whole milk is best and it's even better if you can find non-homogenized milk. Hard to find, but tastes much better and better for you.

    I personally don't think a vegetarian/vegan diet is healthy. It's a philosophical choice, not a biological one. How do you think humans evolved? By eating meat! Our bodies need animal protein. That said, I definitely think we eat way too much grain/filler food these days and not enough vegetables. And meat certainly shouldn't be the cornerstone of our diet either.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Jan 04, 2008 7:48 PM GMT
    hippie4lyfe said[quote]
    Lastly the jiggly man boobs is the biggest MYTH. No scientific study has ever proven men develop breasts from soy, I am happy to say i consume tons of soy and my chest is nice and flat lol.


    Someone should tell that to the nutritionists and NDs that told me about it. Grant it, they did mention that the boob growth could happen after decades of eating soy, but I couldn't pass up a chance to say "great, jiggly man boobs". icon_wink.gif

    Oh, and still I don't think the act of milking produces milk unless there are mammories. When talking about milking a guy for his sperm, the product is still semen. Milking a snake for it's venom, produces venom. Milking an old woman for her money produces a rich tele-vangelist. Milking the conotations of milking produces boredom for everyone and kills a joke. So I'll just say great, jiggly man boobs and move on. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2008 8:02 PM GMT
    I'm sorry but soy milk tastes like CRAP!! additionally they dont show causation here. and lastly to the guy who says soy doesnt cause tumors you have to have them already guess what everybody has tiny tumors in there body at all times, most of the time your body can just deal with them on its own, when it cant its called cancer.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2008 9:05 PM GMT
    Auryn saidOh, and still I don't think the act of milking produces milk unless there are mammories. When talking about milking a guy for his sperm, the product is still semen. Milking a snake for it's venom, produces venom. Milking an old woman for her money produces a rich tele-vangelist. Milking the conotations of milking produces boredom for everyone and kills a joke. So I'll just say great, jiggly man boobs and move on. icon_lol.gif


    Auryn, you are a funny guy! That was priceless.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 06, 2008 3:57 AM GMT
    highsierrahiker said

    I personally don't think a vegetarian/vegan diet is healthy. It's a philosophical choice, not a biological one. How do you think humans evolved? By eating meat! Our bodies need animal protein. That said, I definitely think we eat way too much grain/filler food these days and not enough vegetables. And meat certainly shouldn't be the cornerstone of our diet either.


    Veganism is a philsophical choice but also a biological ones as the first human ate a raw food vegan diet. Humans did not know how to create fires and catch animals that ran from them until thousands of years later. Our bodies do not need animal protein! Tell that to Donald Watson who coined the term "vegan" he was a lifelong vegan who died healthy at 95. Climbing a mountain one month before he passed on. Vegetarians/vegans live very healthfully without animal protein. I get plant based protein from nuts, seeds, beans, and wheat and I am doing great.
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Jan 06, 2008 4:19 AM GMT
    Amazing how easy it is to take a scientifically sound article and make completely ludicrous and unsupported claims from it, isn't it?