Keep the Momentum Going...

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    Jan 04, 2008 5:15 AM GMT


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  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 04, 2008 2:06 PM GMT
    While I'm not against Obama, I think there are others.. better qualified... better candidates who hopefully will win next time.icon_razz.gif
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    Jan 04, 2008 2:14 PM GMT
    I don't think it is a matter of years of experience, but vision and judgment. It is time to get the same old out of Washington and put a new fresh face and ideas in charge. Give hope a chance =)
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    Jan 04, 2008 3:51 PM GMT
    hey Hippie4lyfe, I thought you were a Kucinich manicon_confused.gif
    I wonder why two little states with small populations get to decide who goes on to be a nominee by virtue of the fact that now the so called "losers" money will dry up. What a weird system.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 04, 2008 3:55 PM GMT
    alex its true I do love Kucinich but the reality is he has no chance. my position has always been to vote for kucinich here in New York to show my support for a fringe progressive candidate but if the race here in NY is close between Obama, Clinton, or Edwards I will vote for Obama or Edwards over Clinton.
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    Jan 04, 2008 4:00 PM GMT
    Hippie,
    This is not being written to start an argument, I honestly want to know where the rabid hatred of Hillary comes from. Sure, she's a little conservative for my taste (and yours, I imagine) but why does she excite all this negative passion out of people? There are lots of Democrats that I welcome into the party even though they are more conservative than me (hell, almost everyone is more conservative than me) but I certainly don't hate them.

    Why the intensity of the dislike?
  • irishboxers

    Posts: 357

    Jan 04, 2008 4:35 PM GMT
    Just to remind y'all -- Howard Dean won Iowa last time and was the front runner for the first few primaries. Last I checked, he isn't the President.

    Let's just see how the next few months go before we bemoan the betrayals and loss of civil liberties and pandering or whatever other issues people have. This thing just started.
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    Jan 04, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    Actually, Kerry won Iowa after Dean and Gephardt knocked each other out with negative ads.

    I'm still supporting Mrs. Clinton. I find all this talk of "the same old Washington" to be silly. Obama is as much the same old Washington as every other candidate; he's just packaged himself up nice and pretty to fool you. The reality is that every candidate is or will be "the same old Washington," as far as dealmaking and going through the traditional process to get what you want, or they won't be able to get a single thing done while in office. It's the nature of our democratic process.

    In addition, even if Obama wins the nod, look for him to drift steadily to the right over the course of the presidential campaign. The Republican nominee will also drift steadily to the left. If one or the other doesn't, then the person closest to the center will come out ahead. That's just how it works in a First Past The Post system. You can talk all you like about how you think Obama is more liberal than Clinton, but in reality they're both very similar with only minute differences between them, and they would both end up with similar positions in a presidential race.
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    Jan 04, 2008 4:38 PM GMT
    jprichva saidHippie,
    This is not being written to start an argument, I honestly want to know where the rabid hatred of Hillary comes from. Sure, she's a little conservative for my taste (and yours, I imagine) but why does she excite all this negative passion out of people? There are lots of Democrats that I welcome into the party even though they are more conservative than me (hell, almost everyone is more conservative than me) but I certainly don't hate them.

    Why the intensity of the dislike?


    Because she goes from flag waving pro war to fake anti war?

    Because she even admits she "might" not be able to withdraw troops from Iraq

    Because she accepts 27,000 from crooks who don't even change the name on the check.

    Because she is a tool of the Israeli lobby

    Because she shares the same ideal of her Hubby of doing whatever it takes to get elected.

    Because she is just an anti gay as most republicans

    Need more?


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    Jan 04, 2008 5:07 PM GMT
    a "tool" of the Israeli lobby?

    That kind of language veers very close to the old anti-Semitic "dual loyalty" charge.

    By what means do you characterize her former pro-war position as "flag-waving" and her "anti-war" position as "fake"? Are you privy to some secret memo that the rest of us are not?

    And what has she done (as opposed to her hubby) that you could fairly characterize as "as anti-gay as most Republicans"? True, Bill signed DOMA. She didn't. Are you saying that she will be a figurehead and he will actually be president?

    This is just the sort of stuff that comes from the right regularly--smears without foundation.
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    Jan 04, 2008 5:51 PM GMT
    don't forget she wants to make flag burning illegal. That shows what she thinks about civil rights.

    And being against the israeli lobby has nothing to do with anti-semitism. It is about entrenching ourselves in conflicts that have to deal with our insane intervention to begin with.
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    Jan 05, 2008 3:53 AM GMT
    I guess my strong dislike for Hillary comes from the fact that as a New Yorker I feel she has used my state to be a senator which truely was a platform to run for President from. She had no business winning NY senate, she isnt from here nor does she know anything about what NY'ers want. Second I find her to be very conservative/moderate on most issues. Third i dont trust her, i get bad vibes, she seems, sneaky and disengenuous.
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    Jan 05, 2008 3:57 AM GMT
    If 56% of the people in your state voted for her, how can you say she has no business running for Senate from your state?
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    Jan 05, 2008 3:36 PM GMT
    She took advantage of New York. She is not from New York nor did she know anything about New York. She used us as a platform to have a run for the white house. Everyone knew it than and everyone knows it now. She has done nothing for New York. Yes she got voted in but I don't understand the fascination around Hillary Clinton, quite frankly I think she sucks.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14313

    Jan 05, 2008 7:10 PM GMT
    It is very true that Hillary Clinton took advantage of the State of New York just to get a clear path to the white house. She has done absolutely nothing for the people of the State of New York. She claimed that she was deeply concerned about the serious economic pressures of upstate New York and promised to team up with the private and public sectors to create 300,000 new jobs for the upstate region. What a glorified crock of shit. The truth is she has done nothing for New York and does not know a damn thing about our state. She is a carpetbagging phony with absolutely no interest in the State of New York. I intend to support Obama for the democratic nomination because he has a fresh vision and is very creative and is not a typical Washington insider. I say lets keep the momentum for Obama going by supporting him in his presidential bid. I hope that New York along with Pennsylvania and Ohio turn out and vote overwhelmingly for Obama in their primaries. Lets show that bumbling bimbo billary bitch the door by sending her back to Little Rock, Arkansas.
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    Jan 05, 2008 7:24 PM GMT
    I for one will gladly book her plane ticket back to Little Rock if she promises to get the fuck out of our lives.
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    Jan 05, 2008 7:59 PM GMT
    Andrew Sullivan has a good article in the December 2007 issue of the Atlantic on what he thinks Obama could do for the country.
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    Jan 06, 2008 3:20 AM GMT
    MikeonMain,

    Thanks for the reference to the article in The Atlantic by Andrew Sullivan on Obama...you're right -- a good article!

    Wow...

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    Jan 06, 2008 3:27 AM GMT
    wellwell saidPrecisely!
    There should be a 1 year verified residency requirement for local; 2/state; & 3 year for national office!

    What nonsense. That would effectively deny someone the right to run for office from any new residence they choose for some period of time specified by--law? the Constitution? No, how silly of me, by YOU.
    If the voters don't want the person in office, they have the right to vote her opponent in. Apparently you only like democracy when it suits you.

    sickofthesame saidAnd being against the israeli lobby has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

    Oh, and not wanting black people living next door has nothing to do with racism. It's just that those people have an agenda.

    hippie4lyfe saidI guess my strong dislike for Hillary comes from the fact that as a New Yorker I feel she has used my state to be a senator which truely was a platform to run for President from. She had no business winning NY senate, she isnt from here nor does she know anything about what NY'ers want

    You don't much like democracy either, do you. She ran, legally, 56% of your state's voters decided they wanted her, and she had no "business" doing so? Apparently yours is a minority view.



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    Jan 06, 2008 3:53 AM GMT
    She had every right to run and every right to win, I don't like it but that is what the people have decided. I just choose to question the sanity of the people.
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    Jan 06, 2008 4:39 AM GMT
    You have the worst rhetorical skills I have seen. Another straw man. I can be against entanglement in a pro-israeli lobby (tell me, are you a racist against palestinians, then?) without being a racist. And who said they were against black people moving in next door to them?
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    Jan 06, 2008 4:43 AM GMT
    You are amazingly literal-minded.

    Being against the "Israeli lobby" is anti-Semitism. Being against some or all of Israel's policies is not.
    One characterizes a group and demonizes them, one deals in specific facts.

    Funny, no one rails about being against the "Chinese lobby" although arguably the ex-politicians who lobby for easier restrictions on Chinese imports do more damage to this country than anyone else. No, all we hear about is the "Israeli lobby".

    And I have bad rhetorical skills? You haven't any at all.
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    Jan 06, 2008 4:49 AM GMT
    jprichva saidYou are amazingly literal-minded.

    Being against the "Israeli lobby" is anti-Semitism. Being against some or all of Israel's policies is not.
    One characterizes a group and demonizes them, one deals in specific facts.

    Funny, no one rails about being against the "Chinese lobby" although arguably the ex-politicians who lobby for easier restrictions on Chinese imports do more damage to this country than anyone else. No, all we hear about is the "Israeli lobby".

    And I have bad rhetorical skills? You haven't any at all.


    No, actually, I do rail against the chinese lobby. And just because you say something, doesn't mean it's so. And no, you set up a straw man. Look it up! You'll be amazed! You are sloppy with your rhetoric.

    Israeli lobby doesn't mean israelis. Sorry! And why do you care? Aren't all religious folks mouth-breathing, beanie wearing, tin foil hat donning loonies?
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    Jan 06, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    What a silly thing to say.

    I'm Jewish, Israel is important to me, and I don't like anti-Semites or people too dumb to know they're parroting anti-Semitic slurs. Israel is far from perfect. I have my problems with many of its policies, from time to time. But every country is entitled to have a lobby--that's simply people hired to try to convince a country to do things favorable to it. We don't have to do those things, but they are entitled to try. It's legal, and there's nothing wrong with it.

    Except that it's fashionable nowadays among certain people to go on about the "Israeli lobby". That's code, the kind of code Republicans always use when they know that if they said what they really mean decent people would be disgusted.
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    Jan 06, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    jprichva saidWhat a silly thing to say.

    I'm Jewish, Israel is important to me, and I don't like anti-Semites or people too dumb to know they're parroting anti-Semitic slurs. Israel is far from perfect. I have my problems with many of its policies, from time to time. But every country is entitled to have a lobby--that's simply people hired to try to convince a country to do things favorable to it. We don't have to do those things, but they are entitled to try. It's legal, and there's nothing wrong with it.

    Except that it's fashionable nowadays among certain people to go on about the "Israeli lobby". That's code, the kind of code Republicans always use when they know that if they said what they really mean decent people would be disgusted.


    Nobody hates on Israel or it's people here.

    The hate is allowing an independent sovereign nation to take money from the US to support it's own agenda. The lobby group itself does nothing but donate money to try and sway elected leaders. Rather than focus on our own domestic issues we waste our money supporting and arming another nation half way around the world.

    Unless Israel wants to declare itself a territory of the United States they have no reason to be flooding congress with money so congress will send taxpayers money and weapons back their way.

    If we want to gain any credibility in the Muslim world we start by stopping the support of Israel.

    If you love Israel so much then donate YOUR OWN money so they can buy guns themselves. Stop demanding everyone else in the nation be a puppet to help support hatred against the US.