Socio-political goals: the ends of our means

  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Jan 04, 2008 8:00 AM GMT
    Over the past year on RJ, there have been a few forum discussions on social and political issues. The posts show that our gay fitness community has members from a variety of places in society (all with Internet access of course) and a scattershot mix of opinions.

    The discussions tend to focus on means and methods, and I, myself, would like in terms of goals discussion; thus, I am curious as to what people here actually want in terms of a society.

    What are your goals for the society you want to establish / have established? What virtue do you see in that society? How do your promoted means work to establish that society?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    1940s-style Stalinism, complete with gulags, collective farms, labor camps, show trials, and Party-controlled media.

    Oh, and plenty of vodka.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Jan 04, 2008 5:53 PM GMT
    I can see how the labor camps would enable that RealJock look, but the vodka would negate any meaningful gains.

    I take it you are working to achieve this by pretending to be liberal-oriented and a promoter of personal and civil rights, thus engaging in a little Machiavellian subterfuge? icon_twisted.gif
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jan 04, 2008 6:09 PM GMT
    Seriously? OK...

    I would like to see well-regulated capitalism become a reality. This would entail fairly unlimited opportunity for business (capitalism is unparalleled in creating wealth across the socio-economic spectrum), along with muscular government regulation.

    Such regulation would include a nationwide living wage, universal healthcare and enforcable verification of immigration status (for everyone from WalMart to the guy hiring a landscaper down the street.) No more subsidies for industries that no longer need them (energy, agriculture). I would like to see organized labor regain it's position as an equal partner in commerce.

    I would like to see public transportation made a top priority, and private transportation should be allowed to price itself out of common usage. Energy independence should be a goal of our nation just like reaching the moon was for our parents.

    I would like to see federal hate crimes legislation, passage of the ERA at long last, federally recognized marriage equality, and the elimination of most drug laws. Treatment, not incarceration, will solve the drug problem in America.

    I would like to see religion in any form removed from the public sphere. Having said that, I would also like faith-based organizations to be able to compete for federal, state and local dollars with which to perform their various acts of charity.

    I would like massive immigration reform, which would entail realistic quotas, a less byzantine entry process, and real border security.

    I would like teacher base pay to begin at $100,000 nationwide.

    Finally, I would like to see a Manhattan Project style new War on Poverty. Such a project would address the root causes of poverty (broken homes, poor education, a culture of hopelessness) directly and strenuously addressed, even though it may take decades.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Jan 04, 2008 6:20 PM GMT
    Thankies Jarhead icon_biggrin.gif
    Yes, I am primarily asking a serious question, though it may be a naive one. After hearing and reading support for socio-political positions, I have a need to ask "for what end?"
    It's easy to get caught up in the whirlpools of opinion without necessarily thinking through the purpose and reason for a particular opinion.
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Jan 04, 2008 6:40 PM GMT
    I am a registered independent so I find the political sniping between both parties rater fascinating to watch. Politics in Washington has essentially broken down into 2 groups of people trying to wrested power and money (especially money) from each other.

    I would like to see a return to independent thinking on the part of the American public. I think our two party system is failing in a major way and most people choose a party and then adopt it's position on issues. People should look at each issue and draw their own conclusions.

    I would like to see our election process be overhauled. There is no need for our politicians to have to start campaigning for president 2 years or more before the election. This requires them to raise tens of millions of dollars and in turn causes them to be beholden to special interests.


    I would like to see our elections based around issues and candidates telling the honest truth instead of them trying to sell us on a cult of personality. We can handle the truth. Who cares if they are "likable?" I would prefer competent to likable any time. Candidates like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are refreshing because they tell it like it is. They can afford to do this only because they have no chance to win.

    I would like to see our debates allow people time to formulate real answers and not trying to cram responses into 30 second sound bites.

    I would love to see our elected officials return to being public servants and not being career politicians whose lust for money and power totally corrupts our system. Being in congress was never, never meant to be a job.

    I would like to see lobbying of any kind make completely illegal.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2008 6:55 PM GMT
    ^ All of the above by Irish

    Regardless of population all states should hold equal weight in elections, which should be really by popular vote. Any candidate can run and the media should stop just focusing on just the few candidates supported by business.

    People shouldn't be pressured by their peers just to vote one way because for sake of achieving one goal.

    The same goal orientated ideal is dangerous. In the means of achieving an end to often we are supporting nothing more than the same corruption that doesn't change election to election.

    Gay people want an end of being recognized as couples. But to achieve this people want to use the law to enforce this. Who you want to marry isn't a right we have to win, its a natural right all people should have and the government should have no say in it.

    People and the offices they control will of course try and deny this where they can, but the answer isn't just to enforce for the sake of the goal. If we allow the power on high to enforce gay rights then we allow room for future conservatives to counter this and ban rights of gays to marry.

    For good or bad, we people should stop recognizing the power of the government to rule over the natural rights of people to choose in aspects of their own life.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2008 9:13 PM GMT
    irishkcguy said Candidates like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are refreshing because they tell it like it is. They can afford to do this only because they have no chance to win.

    I would love to see our elected officials return to being public servants and not being career politicians whose lust for money and power totally corrupts our system. Being in congress was never, never meant to be a job.


    There is so much to disagree with here that I don't even know where to start.

    Ron Paul tells it like it IS? I can't even go there. The man espouses positions which, if he were not in Congress, would have him put in a padded room.

    As to the second part, I would love to see all dentists required to stop drilling teeth after eight years. Two terms in the dentists' office is enough. Being a dentist was never, never meant to be a job.

    Sounds stupid, doesn't it. In what other profession do we want to fire people just when they're starting to be experienced enough to really become great at it?

    There are no words for this kind of silliness.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2008 9:23 PM GMT
    again, if someone doesn't believe exactly like you, then they are crazy or some form thereof.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jan 04, 2008 9:25 PM GMT
    jprichva,

    Be careful what you wish for. Term limits are not inherently bad things (see, Bush, George Walker). The built-in advantages of incumbency, now there's a problem...
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Jan 04, 2008 9:35 PM GMT
    jprichva,

    Of course Ron Paul tells it like it is. You may disagree with him but he is not out there hiding who he is. The same is true of Kucinich. People may think he's nuts as well, but he is saying exactly what he believes in. The front runners don't do that. They usually hide who they really are and what they really believe. Do you think Hilary Clinton is really presenting herself as she really is?


    Your dentist comparison doesn't make any sense. Being in Congress was not intended to be a job, it was intended to be a public service. It has only been in more recent history that it became a lucrative career for these weasels. There was a time when elected officials had regular jobs at home that they did most of the year and they traveled to the state or federal capitols for a few weeks a year to do their business and then went home. My point has nothing to do with term limits at all. It has to do with how the position has evolved over time.