Is the pursuit of lifetime monogamous relationship worth the time and effort in the gay community?(cynics and optimists welcome)

  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 6:48 AM GMT
    I have noticed in meeting many 40+ gay men thata lot of them are single and have been in 10+ year relationships. This seems like an awful amount of time and energy wasted over and over again. I know these types of relationships are hard for gay men to have. Personally I am an ambitious and busy professional with no time to waste on fruitless and frivilous relationships based on infatuation. But I would like to think that there is a possibility some where in the cosmos that I might be able to be engaged in a resilient lifetime relationship like mine and most of your parents have had. What do you guys think of this?
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    Dec 26, 2009 1:14 PM GMT


    ".... with no time to waste on fruitless and frivilous relationships based on infatuation."

    lol, this was one of the first things Bill and I talked about after we met 20 years ago. Except the wording; we both agreed that we were tired of 'PollyAnna'-ing around like teenagers.

    -Doug
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 26, 2009 1:21 PM GMT
    Infatuation can be kind of fun for the moment, but the basis of a good long term relationship is based on commonalities... personality, interests, communication & direction in life.

    Without= fruitless
    With= potential
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 2:58 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    ".... with no time to waste on fruitless and frivilous relationships based on infatuation."

    lol, this was one of the first things Bill and I talked about after we met 20 years ago. Except the wording; we both agreed that we were tired of 'PollyAnna'-ing around like teenagers.

    -Doug



    thanks guys, i figured you all would come along with a great statement at somepoint. keep the responsed coming
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    Dec 26, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    heheh, you're welcome MadeinMich. This is just Doug this time.
    I think that it gets discouraging when looking at the forest as a whole instead of each tree.
    It's very easy to look at 'gay community' in its larger sense and see a whole lot of fooling around with little substance, but looking closer at the individuals that make up the 'community' you start see this relationship, then that one, then this one and that one and before you know it there seems to be successful relationships everywhere.

    I just concentrated on meeting people of every stripe and sex for conversations when out and about. I let the laws of averages work, because eventually, if you talk to enough people and meet new ones, BANG, along comes someone that fits you and you him perfectly. This is NOT to say either of you are perfect, just a perfect fit.

    Extremely compatible imperfect people rule!

    -Doug
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    Dec 26, 2009 3:49 PM GMT
    Being in a relationship that has longevity means a commitment frm ea participant to let ea other grow as individuals. A lot of times when ppl grow in what they consider to be committed relationships the distance of who they first were to who they are present leaves their partner feeling abandoned.
    So the question should be how strong is your commitment?
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    Dec 26, 2009 3:51 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said... fruitless and frivilous relationships based on infatuation...

    I am sure that is exact how those couples would have described their relationship during those 10 years! ... icon_rolleyes.gif

    You are never going to have a relationship if you require a life-time guarantee that nothing will change with either of you.

    Just keep busy with your professional life and spare fucking up some other guy's life.
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    Dec 26, 2009 4:00 PM GMT
    Who says a ten year relationship that ended was a waste?

    We are not born with the knowledge of how to be with someone. That is something you learn from experience. I just got out of a five year relationship. Rather than bemoaning the loss of half of my 20's I recognize that both me and my ex are better people than we were five years ago. I learned a lot about how to live with someone, keep a relationship fresh, and manage all the little things that irritate each other.

    These are not skills one picks up from a book.

    I know we were al spoon fed stories about love at first sight and prince charming and all that horse shit. Reality is, relationships are not built to last. Rather, they require a lot of work and a lot of maintenance to last. Some people things once you kiss sleeping beauty all you have to do is live in perpetual bliss happily ever after. That laziness will kill a relationship.

    If anyone wants long term monogamy and the two of you be happy and satisfied, recognizing this is most important.
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    Dec 26, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
    Personally, you sound like the ambitous and busy type that sees their partner as more of a commodity than someone you're sharing your life with. To whittle down a 10-year relationship to nothing more than infatuation is an obtuse way of looking at the situation, if you ask me. icon_wink.gif
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
    meninlove said heheh, you're welcome MadeinMich. This is just Doug this time.
    I think that it gets discouraging when looking at the forest as a whole instead of each tree.
    It's very easy to look at 'gay community' in its larger sense and see a whole lot of fooling around with little substance, but looking closer at the individuals that make up the 'community' you start see this relationship, then that one, then this one and that one and before you know it there seems to be successful relationships everywhere.

    I just concentrated on meeting people of every stripe and sex for conversations when out and about. I let the laws of averages work, because eventually, if you talk to enough people and meet new ones, BANG, along comes someone that fits you and you him perfectly. This is NOT to say either of you are perfect, just a perfect fit.

    Extremely compatible imperfect people rule!

    -Doug

    Doug,
    another great one. I gotta meet you guys some day
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 4:24 PM GMT
    Caslon12000 said
    MadeinMich said... fruitless and frivilous relationships based on infatuation...

    I am sure that is exact how those couples would have described their relationship during those 10 years! ... icon_rolleyes.gif

    You are never going to have a relationship if you require a life-time guarantee that nothing will change with either of you.

    Just keep busy with your professional life and spare fucking up some other guy's life.


    LOL...Thanks Calson12000...I'll consider that
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    Dec 26, 2009 4:36 PM GMT
    I just had a similiar converstation with a much younger gay friend. Not so much about monogomy, but more about being true to ourselves. It reminded me how much I love where I am at in life. Is it perfect? NO.. HUGE NO!However, whats good, is me. ME! Ive spent my whole life trying to conform, or be something I am not.

    I love this subject, and the debate it instills. However, I have zero patience for someone who try's to instill their belief's and values on me. For me, its a monogomous relationship OR is no relationship at all. It has nothing to do with anyone elses opinion, lifestyle or my judgement of it. Its ME. Its who I am. I attempted to live a st8 life for years. Ive been married.. have grown kids, grandkids etc. Im true to myself now. Life is good, I would not change a thing... Im a lucky guy!

    Its Monogomous or nothing at all. If its not, I'll just stay single and play when I can.In addittion to that, its monogomous and love. I want to be in love. Im no longer willing to have someone by my side or in my life, just to be able to say I have a boyfriend or partner. No more... Id rather hookup.

    It works, or I stay single. I like being single actually. Would I like being in love and having a partner? YES... YES... but Im not willing to settle.

    I want to be able to stand from a distance, and point you out to a friend and say.. "yes, he's mine!" And be proud as shit about that. Somehow Ive become the person I hated.

    My fav motto is "What you look like, attracts me. What you act like, keeps me"

    Thats me...
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Dec 26, 2009 4:47 PM GMT
    I've noticed the same thing and unfortunately it has happened to me. I guess there are a lot of guys that, although they might be relationship oriented, they want a different Significant Other every few years. I made life decisions based upon the relationship(as an example, whether to buy the house where I grew up off of the family estate) only to realize it was just a seven year fling for him...he pretty much checked out of the relationship after about the third year.

    I pretty much scrutinize every guy I date to see if he is actually monogamously relationship oriented. I guess a fun date every now and then doesn't hurt, as long as you know beforehand that the guy isn't a keeper.

    But yes, it takes a lot of time and patience to find a good relationship. Single isn't bad either, but I don't plan to date every guy on earth until I find someone. I'm taking my time and only getting serious with those that really catch my attention, most specifically mentally and emotionally. The physical aspect has to be there too of course. I see a lot of guys that completely turn me on, but that doesn't mean I want to date them or even have sex with them....I guess I'm looking for something else.
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
    LuvMuscle99 saidI just had a similiar converstation with a much younger gay friend. Not so much about monogomy, but more about being true to ourselves. It reminded me how much I love where I am at in life. Is it perfect? NO.. HUGE NO!However, whats good, is me. ME! Ive spent my whole life trying to conform, or be something I am not.

    I love this subject, and the debate it instills. However, I have zero patience for someone who try's to instill their belief's and values on me. For me, its a monogomous relationship OR is no relationship at all. It has nothing to do with anyone elses opinion, lifestyle or my judgement of it. Its ME. Its who I am. I attempted to live a st8 life for years. Ive been married.. have grown kids, grandkids etc. Im true to myself now. Life is good, I would not change a thing... Im a lucky guy!

    Its Monogomous or nothing at all. If its not, I'll just stay single and play when I can.In addittion to that, its monogomous and love. I want to be in love. Im no longer willing to have someone by my side or in my life, just to be able to say I have a boyfriend or partner. No more... Id rather hookup.

    It works, or I stay single. I like being single actually. Would I like being in love and having a partner? YES... YES... but Im not willing to settle.

    I want to be able to stand from a distance, and point you out to a friend and say.. "yes, he's mine!" And be proud as shit about that. Somehow Ive become the person I hated.

    My fav motto is "What you look like, attracts me. What you act like, keeps me"

    Thats me...



    I agree on most of what you said. And might I say tat I am not suprised that you were once married with kids in the str8 world. Most gay guys I know who were once in the str8 world have their head screwed on the tightest. It seems they are more grounded and have a greater desire for monogymous long term relationship. Somethig that modeled their previous relationship

    It is so nice to see a guy out there who is not willing to compromise. sometimes i find myself asking if i should just say fuck it and fall in love with a guy who wants an "open relationship" just because that seems to be the status quo in the gay community. Maybe i should just look for men who were formally married.

    And your right about not letting gay men impose their beliefs on you. i get "oh well, we're just men.. and its in our nature", or "well str8 men do it", or "why should we try to conform to the str8 norm" all of which is bullshit IMO.
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:07 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    LuvMuscle99 saidI just had a similiar converstation with a much younger gay friend. Not so much about monogomy, but more about being true to ourselves. It reminded me how much I love where I am at in life. Is it perfect? NO.. HUGE NO!However, whats good, is me. ME! Ive spent my whole life trying to conform, or be something I am not.

    I love this subject, and the debate it instills. However, I have zero patience for someone who try's to instill their belief's and values on me. For me, its a monogomous relationship OR is no relationship at all. It has nothing to do with anyone elses opinion, lifestyle or my judgement of it. Its ME. Its who I am. I attempted to live a st8 life for years. Ive been married.. have grown kids, grandkids etc. Im true to myself now. Life is good, I would not change a thing... Im a lucky guy!

    Its Monogomous or nothing at all. If its not, I'll just stay single and play when I can.In addittion to that, its monogomous and love. I want to be in love. Im no longer willing to have someone by my side or in my life, just to be able to say I have a boyfriend or partner. No more... Id rather hookup.

    It works, or I stay single. I like being single actually. Would I like being in love and having a partner? YES... YES... but Im not willing to settle.

    I want to be able to stand from a distance, and point you out to a friend and say.. "yes, he's mine!" And be proud as shit about that. Somehow Ive become the person I hated.

    My fav motto is "What you look like, attracts me. What you act like, keeps me"

    Thats me...



    I agree on most of what you said. And might I say tat I am not suprised that you were once married with kids in the str8 world. Most gay guys I know who were once in the str8 world have their head screwed on the tightest. It seems they are more grounded and have a greater desire for monogymous long term relationship. Somethig that modeled their previous relationship

    It is so nice to see a guy out there who is not willing to compromise. sometimes i find myself asking if i should just say fuck it and fall in love with a guy who wants an "open relationship" just because that seems to be the status quo in the gay community. Maybe i should just look for men who were formally married.

    And your right about not letting gay men impose their beliefs on you. i get "oh well, we're just men.. and its in our nature", or "well str8 men do it", or "why should we try to conform to the str8 norm" all of which is bullshit IMO.


    You have your own morals and values. Not mine, not the guy above you, or below you. Be realistic for sure, its YOU who has to lay his head on the pillow at night. No one else.

    I like your view into guys who have been married before and why they are who they are. I never saw it that way. Fuck me I tried.. more than once I tried. But Im gay.. "gay, gay, gay, gay, gay" LOL!!!

    My kids are grown adults.. yes I was 12 when I had them. LOL!! They are so accepting of me, and who I am. Great relationships. I'll tell you a quick funny story. I had a period of time, lots of dates. My son called, asked what I was up to. I said "Im on my way to pick up _______, I have a date. He said.. "DAD, you are such a slut". I laughed my ass off.

    I have no clue what that means to what we are discussing, other than saying, my life for years was such a mess, trying to conform to other people and their viewpoints.

    Do what you feel is right, and F the rest!
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:10 PM GMT
    LuvMuscle99 said

    My fav motto is "What you look like, attracts me. What you act like, keeps me"


    OMFG! I think you expressed in words that I had been thinking.

    I have been in a relationship for the last 8 years (just crossed 8 years this past Nov 30). This last year has been a rollercoaster of emotions. He had an affair with someone last year, and I went through a lot of healing and hearing of people 'once a cheater, always a cheater'. Did he lie to me previously, yes, did he continue to do it yes. Was some of it my fault, yes. I have forgiven, but I cannot forget. Not now.
    Yesterday he exploded in a heat of rage and threw the dog feces at me (thank god they were still in the poop baggies, and asked me to get ta fuck out of his life. What a christmas 2009.

    I'm am sorry to ramble on, but that line just spoke words to me that you said and I quoted.

    Right now we are taking a much needed break, and maybe we'll resolve things. Until then, I'll keep reading, living, learning about ME. I haven't lost sight that I come first.

    ----Love..Me
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:11 PM GMT
    Celticmusl saidI've noticed the same thing and unfortunately it has happened to me. I guess there are a lot of guys that, although they might be relationship oriented, they want a different Significant Other every few years. I made life decisions based upon the relationship(as an example, whether to buy the house where I grew up off of the family estate) only to realize it was just a seven year fling for him...he pretty much checked out of the relationship after about the third year.

    I pretty much scrutinize every guy I date to see if he is actually monogamously relationship oriented. I guess a fun date every now and then doesn't hurt, as long as you know beforehand that the guy isn't a keeper.

    But yes, it takes a lot of time and patience to find a good relationship. Single isn't bad either, but I don't plan to date every guy on earth until I find someone. I'm taking my time and only getting serious with those that really catch my attention, most specifically mentally and emotionally. The physical aspect has to be there too of course. I see a lot of guys that completely turn me on, but that doesn't mean I want to date them or even have sex with them....I guess I'm looking for something else.



    Yep, I've been attached to serial monogamists too (my ex is one)... In a way, they're harder for me to deal with because I think of them more as the game-players because they seem to lack a certain degree of honesty and morality compared to the guys who are willing to open the relationship.
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
    SAHEM62896 said
    Celticmusl saidI've noticed the same thing and unfortunately it has happened to me. I guess there are a lot of guys that, although they might be relationship oriented, they want a different Significant Other every few years. I made life decisions based upon the relationship(as an example, whether to buy the house where I grew up off of the family estate) only to realize it was just a seven year fling for him...he pretty much checked out of the relationship after about the third year.

    I pretty much scrutinize every guy I date to see if he is actually monogamously relationship oriented. I guess a fun date every now and then doesn't hurt, as long as you know beforehand that the guy isn't a keeper.

    But yes, it takes a lot of time and patience to find a good relationship. Single isn't bad either, but I don't plan to date every guy on earth until I find someone. I'm taking my time and only getting serious with those that really catch my attention, most specifically mentally and emotionally. The physical aspect has to be there too of course. I see a lot of guys that completely turn me on, but that doesn't mean I want to date them or even have sex with them....I guess I'm looking for something else.



    Yep, I've been attached to serial monogamists too (my ex is one)... In a way, they're harder for me to deal with because I think of them more as the game-players because they seem to lack a certain degree of honesty and morality compared to the guys who are willing to open the relationship.


    ----------> icon_eek.gif<----------- See the look of shock on my face. icon_sad.gif

    LOL.. I love you anyway... but not sure I agree. Its all good though....
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:25 PM GMT
    LuvMuscle99 said
    SAHEM62896 said
    Yep, I've been attached to serial monogamists too (my ex is one)... In a way, they're harder for me to deal with because I think of them more as the game-players because they seem to lack a certain degree of honesty and morality compared to the guys who are willing to open the relationship.


    ----------> icon_eek.gif<----------- See the look of shock on my face. icon_sad.gif

    LOL.. I love you anyway... but not sure I agree. Its all good though....


    Love you back.

    Understand that by "serial monogamists," I mean the guys who do the whole song and dance of being in a relationship to get into bed with you for a while, but when things are going wrong sexually or emotionally will just leave and get into a new relationship so that they don't have to deal with the baggage of the old one. They seem to be playing a bunch of lip service to the whole idea of a relationship and are patting themselves on the back for staying "loyal" to their partners while they are with them.

    I can't play that game... it just seems so dishonest to me. I can't fall in love (or act like I am doing so) with every guy I want to sleep with, and I would rather not tell someone I loved them enough to be in a relationship if I didn't plan to follow through with it... better to not be in one if that's the case. At least the guys who are in open relationships know the deal with each other and with themselves, are in agreement with it, and are ostensibly prepared to deal with it if it becomes a problem. The "serial monogamist" is just a user.

    So do you see what I mean? I'm not against monogamy at all; I'm against using monogamy under false pretenses. Monogamy under false pretenses is what my ex did to me.... and why I'm staying the hell out of a relationship until I can figure out what the hell it is that I want and also find someone who will not play games with me.
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:40 PM GMT
    SAHEM62896 said
    LuvMuscle99 said
    SAHEM62896 said
    Yep, I've been attached to serial monogamists too (my ex is one)... In a way, they're harder for me to deal with because I think of them more as the game-players because they seem to lack a certain degree of honesty and morality compared to the guys who are willing to open the relationship.


    ----------> icon_eek.gif<----------- See the look of shock on my face. icon_sad.gif

    LOL.. I love you anyway... but not sure I agree. Its all good though....


    Love you back.

    Understand that by "serial monogamists," I mean the guys who do the whole song and dance of being in a relationship to get into bed with you for a while, but when things are going wrong sexually or emotionally will just leave and get into a new relationship so that they don't have to deal with the baggage of the old one. They seem to be playing a bunch of lip service to the whole idea of a relationship and are patting themselves on the back for staying "loyal" to their partners while they are with them.

    I can't play that game... it just seems so dishonest to me. I can't fall in love (or act like I am doing so) with every guy I want to sleep with, and I would rather not tell someone I loved them enough to be in a relationship if I didn't plan to follow through with it... better to not be in one if that's the case. At least the guys who are in open relationships know the deal with each other and with themselves, are in agreement with it, and are ostensibly prepared to deal with it if it becomes a problem. The "serial monogamist" is just a user.

    So do you see what I mean? I'm not against monogamy at all; I'm against using monogamy under false pretenses. Monogamy under false pretenses is what my ex did to me.... and why I'm staying the hell out of a relationship until I can figure out what the hell it is that I want and also find someone who will not play games with me.


    WHERE DO you find these losers? You obviously have NOT dated me yet. icon_lol.gif

    I guess I understand your message, and thanks for the clairifaction. Maybe Im stupid or niave, but I just don't run into allot of this crap. Honestly, I lay out what Im about on date one, maybe before it. As the author of this blog said.. I dont want to waste my time. Its kind of a "here's me, take it or leave it BITCH!"
    (ok, now always the bitch part. Im being silly or horny. Maybe silly horny LOL!)
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Dec 26, 2009 5:47 PM GMT
    LuvMuscle99 said
    SAHEM62896 said
    LuvMuscle99 said
    SAHEM62896 said
    Yep, I've been attached to serial monogamists too (my ex is one)... In a way, they're harder for me to deal with because I think of them more as the game-players because they seem to lack a certain degree of honesty and morality compared to the guys who are willing to open the relationship.


    ----------> icon_eek.gif<----------- See the look of shock on my face. icon_sad.gif

    LOL.. I love you anyway... but not sure I agree. Its all good though....


    Love you back.

    Understand that by "serial monogamists," I mean the guys who do the whole song and dance of being in a relationship to get into bed with you for a while, but when things are going wrong sexually or emotionally will just leave and get into a new relationship so that they don't have to deal with the baggage of the old one. They seem to be playing a bunch of lip service to the whole idea of a relationship and are patting themselves on the back for staying "loyal" to their partners while they are with them.

    I can't play that game... it just seems so dishonest to me. I can't fall in love (or act like I am doing so) with every guy I want to sleep with, and I would rather not tell someone I loved them enough to be in a relationship if I didn't plan to follow through with it... better to not be in one if that's the case. At least the guys who are in open relationships know the deal with each other and with themselves, are in agreement with it, and are ostensibly prepared to deal with it if it becomes a problem. The "serial monogamist" is just a user.

    So do you see what I mean? I'm not against monogamy at all; I'm against using monogamy under false pretenses. Monogamy under false pretenses is what my ex did to me.... and why I'm staying the hell out of a relationship until I can figure out what the hell it is that I want and also find someone who will not play games with me.


    WHERE DO you find these losers? You obviously have NOT dated me yet. icon_lol.gif

    I guess I understand your message, and thanks for the clairifaction. Maybe Im stupid or niave, but I just don't run into allot of this crap. Honestly, I lay out what Im about on date one, maybe before it. As the author of this blog said.. I dont want to waste my time. Its kind of a "here's me, take it or leave it BITCH!"
    (ok, now always the bitch part. Im being silly or horny. Maybe silly horny LOL!)



    RIGHT ON AGAIN!!!!!
    Why aren't there any other guys like you on this forum thread yet? where are all theTRUE men on real jock?
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    Dec 26, 2009 5:52 PM GMT
    LuvMuscle99 said
    WHERE DO you find these losers? You obviously have NOT dated me yet. icon_lol.gif

    I guess I understand your message, and thanks for the clairifaction. Maybe Im stupid or niave, but I just don't run into allot of this crap. Honestly, I lay out what Im about on date one, maybe before it. As the author of this blog said.. I dont want to waste my time. Its kind of a "here's me, take it or leave it BITCH!"
    (ok, now always the bitch part. Im being silly or horny. Maybe silly horny LOL!)


    Oh I don't think you're being stupid and naïve. I was stupid and naïve to believe him when he said he had found his soul mate, and then let him hitch his wagon to me. I wish I could care less about the fact that he is now on to a greener pasture -- though I have to admit, the only reason I care is because I want to warn his current "greener pasture" that his new boyfriend is going to dump a truckload of shit on him that sure as hell ain't fertilizer. But it's not my business.... not anymore.

    I learned a good lesson from the whole thing, though: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Luckily for me, the shame is on HIM now.

    Accordingly, this is how it is for me now: If you love me enough to commit to me, you'd better mean it because I don't play games. A bit hard of me, perhaps, but my heart got broken open just enough to let my brain back out. And now that it's back where it should be, I plan to be a little smarter if I am ever lucky enough to be given a second chance at love... because I do believe it is worth it.
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    Dec 26, 2009 9:32 PM GMT
    It can all seem so wonderful in the honeymoon phase. Why would you believe a guy isn't truly interested in a long-term investment? He may even believe it himself in the beginning. Are you guys suggesting there's a foolproof way to determine if a guy is going to dump you in 7-10 years?
  • baldone

    Posts: 826

    Dec 26, 2009 9:39 PM GMT
    i guess my gay standard i am the minority ....i am looking for my soul mate, the white knight that will come riding in and swoop me up and we would then live happily everafter.....i love to be in love, i love to have that one person to love,cuddle with, and devote all my energy to making happy and being together for the rest of my life....wonder if he is out there
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    Dec 26, 2009 9:45 PM GMT
    If you really want a long term, monogamous relationship then of course it's attainable and worth pursuing. It just takes time and you have to be selective. As far as the lifetime part....well, you never can say if any relationship will last a lifetime. You just have to recognize a good thing when you have it, allow the other person to have their space, and take it one day at a time. Eventually we all end up 'alone' anyway, very few people actually die with their significant other....unless you think The Notebook was a true story. LOL