OVERTRAINING? Among other things...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 13, 2007 7:28 AM GMT
    HELP me out you guys!!! so here's the deal, i'm 38 yrs old, work out 5 to 6 times a week ( 3 days lifting weights,2-3 days cardio). lately,my wrists are hurting so i have to stop for a few days,sometimes a week or two before i start lifting again,which hinders my gains.with the addition of cardio,which i didnt use to do,i get tired frequently.am i overtraining?my goal is to get ripped and muscular before my birthday this coming september.also with this goal i have in mind,any particular diet i should follow? i'm also hypoglycemic and lactose intolerant,yeah throw that into the mix! any advice would greatly be appreciated.thanks!
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    May 13, 2007 9:26 AM GMT
    Hello

    It sounds like you are doing a number of things which are going to prevent you from meeting your goals.

    Firstly, your wrists may be hurting because you are lifting weights that are too heavy. Also, ensure you are following correct form. Do you have a gym buddy who can help you lift the weights into the correct position for you to start your exercise.

    Secondly, if your aim is to increase bulk and build muscle then you need to cut out the cardio completely. You just need to warm up on a rowing machine or cross trainer for 5 mins before your lifting routine.

    Finally, make sure you are getting plenty of rest. Your body needs the time to build the muscle.
  • craigindc

    Posts: 30

    May 13, 2007 5:36 PM GMT
    without seeing your form, I can't say; but some guys, when benching, for example, let their hands fall back(bent wrist) and palms face up. This is not good.
    Think of your palms facing forward, wrist neutral, in line with your forearm and hand...similar problems can occur on other exercises like bicep curls.
    The power should come from the muscle doing the work...concentrate on not using your wrist...think as if you were wearing a cast, and could not bend your wrist either way.
    This may not even be the source of your problem,just guessing here.
    Some guys(like me) also need to strenthen their forearms and their hand(grip) strength in order to keep up with the strong larger muscle groups...it is possible your forearm/wrist/hand connection can not handle the weight your other muscle groups are trying to lift.
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    May 14, 2007 5:02 AM GMT
    Thanks for the advice guys,now here's my response; to redheadguy-i didnt use to do cardio and i would still warm up 5 minutes on the elliptical.right now i'm more concerned about leaning out but i do need more sleep. to craig-you may be on to something but what do i do in the meantime while my wrists are hurting? And to scally-give me some time to figure out how to use a digital camera and a haircut and i'll have some pics,i promise! Thanks!
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    May 14, 2007 11:29 AM GMT
    Go see a ortho hand specialist (yes hand is a sub specialty.) If you need therapy, go see a hand specialist as well (there is even a certified hand specialist.) These physicians and therapists.., all they do are HANDS and WRISTS.

    The wrist is actually TWO rows of bones and quite complex. What you described is not specific so I cannot give you anymore information. I usually dont treat hands and wrist anyway..

    Don't mess with it and let it become chronic!
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    May 14, 2007 1:28 PM GMT
    There is a common misconception that you can get ripped and muscular at the same time. If you already have the bulk, it is a matter of diet and cardio incorporated into your training to lose weight (ripped). If you are trying to gain and be ripped at the same time, it could be a matter of genetics.

    The body needs 3500 calories to gain or lose one pound of bodyweight. Which means that your body must either retain or burn that to gain or lose. Too much of one is a trade out for the other.

    Another factor is the frequency of training program changes. Far too many people train differently with each training session within a week and thereofre the body never gets the chance to develope any muscle memory, which is ok if you already have taken your daily injectable dose of 300mg of testerone.... j/k

    Chose a routine that lasts for 10-12 weeks and stick with it before making any changes. Use high reps 12-15 for weight loss/cutting up and lower 6-8 reps for bulking up. you may need to sit down with a personal trainer and set a training program and nutritional program instead of getting advice from a blog.

    As far as your wrist hurting, I would agree in seeing an othro specialist for a MRI just to be on the safe side.

    If you find yourself curling your wrists (fingers) either backwords of forward towards your elbows when you do bicep curls, STOP IT !! keep the wrist locked in a position the keeps the them slightly bent so that the thumbs are not facing outward too far. Try hammer curls for awhile and watch the amount of weight you are lifting to be in correct form.

    Also the Bench press hand positioning mentioned earlier is important too.

    Again, break out the check book and find you a personal trainer to help you out for 2-3 sessions. Chose one that knows what he's talking about and not one based on what he looks like.

    You may want to trust me on this one, I have been in this industry for 30 years and have had my personal fitness training business since 1989. Lots of experience in injury traing and recovery.
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    May 14, 2007 2:19 PM GMT
    You obviously dont' apply yourself well, as you ask a bunch of questions, yet, you're so lazy / ignorant / low esteem / dishonest as to not have the minimal consideration of showing a picture. That lack of action, in of it itself, tells me you're not good at a lot of things.

    Without seeing pictures, profiles, measurements, any free advice given to you would be speculative and ill-given. If you had stopped to think for just a moment, you'd know that.

    All that being said, you should google on "Bodybuilding" and research things application to your situation, or hire a mature professional with considerable experience to advise you. Remember: anything worth doing is worth doing well.

    You asked for advice / diagnosis but were so lazy, stupid, I,I,I, or whatever your mental issue to even post a picutre. Who wants to help a person like that?
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    May 14, 2007 6:40 PM GMT
    Really Chuckystud do you have to be so constantly unpleasant and unsupportive. This guy wants some advice and all you can do is belittle him and spew up insults. If you can't say anything constructive or useful why bother to contribute?
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    May 14, 2007 6:40 PM GMT
    WOW CHUCKYSPUD,IF A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS, THEN YOU MAY NOT WANT TO SHOW YOURS EITHER!!! HAVE A NICE DAY!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 14, 2007 7:17 PM GMT
    THANKS REDHEADGUY,NYCMUSCLE(YOU'RE HOT!!!),AND EVERYONE WHO ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS THE MEANING OF "COMMUNITY!" THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. TO ALL THOSE SHADY NO-PIC HATERS, YOU GUYS TOTALLY FORGOT WHAT THIS SITE IS ABOUT. IF YOU GUYS ARE IN HERE TO CRUISE,GET UP AND GO TO YOUR GYM AND CRUISE THERE.TAKE A VERY GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELVES...AND BE HONEST; WHOSE REALLY INSECURE, THE ONES WITH NO PICS OR THE ONES WHO HIDE THEIR FAULTS THROUGH ARROGANCE AND FALSE PRIDE? AND THAT,GENTLEMEN,WILL BE OUR NEXT FORUM DISCUSSION...PEACE!!!
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    May 14, 2007 9:56 PM GMT
    Lashing out won't advance your cause.

    If you re-read the above you'll see it was truthful and logical. The reason you've failed so much is because your plan, and the way you present yourself, is faulty. You just want to take, take, take, and not make any effort on your own. In some circles, that's called being a bum.

    Coddling you would only make you weaker. It's absolutely the wrong thing to do. When the going gets tough, the tough step up.

    Quit being a pussy; take charge; stop whining; hop to it.
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    May 14, 2007 10:44 PM GMT
    I would have given you more info but I do not treat hands as I am not a hand specialist... Now if you ask me about other joints... (well not the TMJ please, I dont treat those either.)
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    May 15, 2007 4:17 AM GMT
    I'd like to know what part of your wrist seems to hurt, if you can tell-- is it bones, muscles, tendons? I have a similar problem with both my arms and hands. When I first started lifting heavier weights (amounts close to my body weight), I had a lot of soreness in on the insides of my elbows and my forearms. I got help from two people-- my chiropractor suggested that it was tendon soreness, and suggested massaging across the tendon, rather then up and down, to help. And a friend at the gym who is a competition weight lifter gave me some help with form.

    I think the advice you have been given to see a specialist is good, but you might want to consult a trainer or a general practitioner first-- who can help you determine if it's muscle, bone, tendon or ligament, which will help you decide what type of specialist to see.

    I've found that for me, L-glutamine helps with recovering from the mild tendon soreness which happens when I inrease weights or do negetive reps.

    The problem I have now is with my wrists and my hand, and it seems to be more in the bones. The advice I have so far on that is that it is due to my form-- when lifting heavier weights it is very important to make sure that the weight is born by the appropriate parts of the body-- not in the hands and wrists for example, by learning proper grip and motion. I'm still learning that.

    The best advice I have received is that whatever you are doing, if it hurts after your workout for more than three days, or if the pain gets worse after successive workouts, STOP doing whatever it is that hurts, and get some help figuring it out. It's much better to delay your improvement by a few weeks learning to adjust than it is to delay it for months by injuring yourself. You may find that you just can't do some exercises well at this point-- you can always find similar ones that may hurt less but offer similar benefits.

    I'm sorry that some people here respond to your question by insulting you. This is supposed to be a fitness discussion, and there is absolutely no reason you can't post a revelant question without a photo in your profile. A few people in athletics respond well to negative motivation, but most people respond better to positive encouragement and respect. There's no reason to respond to your question with insults.
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    May 15, 2007 5:53 AM GMT
    THANKS TANK.I AM GOING TO THE GYM CHIROPRACTOR TOMORROW TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING,BECAUSE I DONT EVEN KNOW IF IT'S MY TENDONS OR JOINTS. I HAVE BEEN TAKING SOME JOINT RELIEF PILLS AND THAT HELPS SOMEWHAT.AS FOR MY FORM, I'LL ASK MY TRAINER FRIEND TO CHECK ME OUT. AS FOR THE INSULTS,I'LL JUST IGNORE THEM. I'VE BEEN WEIGHT TRAINING SINCE I WAS EIGHTEEN, I'M NOT NEW TO THIS.WE CAN'T JUDGE SOMEBODY BY WHAT THEY SAY IN THEIR BLOGS(AND THEIR PICS-OR LACK THEREOF), BUT I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR SOME AND FOR WHAT GRATIFICATION FROM THIS,I DONT KNOW AND I DONT CARE. WE ARE HERE TO CONNECT AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER,WHICH STRENGTHENS OUR COMMUNITY, AND THAT'S WHAT PRIDE IN YOURSELF IS ALL ABOUT. ANYWAY CAN WE STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND?
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    May 15, 2007 11:05 AM GMT
    Hi Bodyworks, I'm glad you got some good helpful responses to your initial query and thankfully were not too put off by the bullying insults coming from posters like Chuckystud.

    He's a very angry guy and seems to imagine he can vent his frustrations on people asking quite sensible questions on these forums.

    We are not all elite athletes here, and some of us get imitidated asking fitness related questions of the jocks at the gyms we work out at, so it's nice to have forums where we can ask other Gay guys these questions.

    Hope the problem with your wrists clears up and you continue to be enthusiastic about keeping healthy.

    Cheers

    Loz
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    May 15, 2007 11:23 PM GMT
    Do not agree with advice from Tanktop,..sorry...

    Do not take medical advice from a personal trainer. They do not have the training to do differential diagnostics, AT ALL.

    Chiropractors knows about the spine but not too much about extremities, except the ones who practice ART.

    Cross fiber massage has never proven to work well under controlled and single treament studies. ART, or soft tissue mobilization, actually works a lot better than cross fiber massage, and there are some EMG objective studies on this matter..

    Furthermore, if the injury is ligamentus, or acute and inflamed, ice it and immoblize it and leave it alone. No massage.

    Primarcyare physicians knows very little about orthopedic oncditions, not to mention hands. Its always a tendonitis or sprain or DJD, I cannot tell you how many WRONG diagnosis we get from primary care physicians on musculoskeltal conditions...

    If your insurance does not require the referral of a primary care, go directly to see a hand ortho.

    Maybe you have a common Dequervian's Syndrome, or somthing more obscure like thenar neuropathy, soft tissue bruise from hook of hammet, or more serious conditions such as capitate entrapement. Like I said, I dont see hand/wrist patients. got see a specialist. Personal trainers do not have the skills to differentaily diagnos you...
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    May 16, 2007 12:46 AM GMT
    My advice specifically was "you might want to consult a trainer or a general practitioner first-- who can help you determine if it's muscle, bone, tendon or ligament, which will help you decide what type of specialist to see." I don't see what harm it could possibly do to get some advice about which specialist to see. As I repeat, I did not suggest that you not see anyone, just that you get help deciding which one to go to. It's a nice chance for someone to take a shot at trainers, GPs, and chiropractors, but I don't understand anyone advising that you randomly pick a specialist as a starting point.

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    May 16, 2007 12:50 AM GMT
    And as for massage on ligaments, we have not detemined even if an injury exists. My advice about massage and supplements is for soreness after workouts which often occurs when starting with heavier weights, not for injuries. I think we agree that you should get help on your form to see if it is OK, and see a specialist to make sure you don't have an injury. If your form is good, and you are not injured, then that's when then advice about L-glutamine and massage is relevant.
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    May 16, 2007 2:45 AM GMT
    Tanktop..

    That is exactly what I said...

    "you might want to consult a trainer or a general practitioner first-- who can help you determine if it's muscle, bone, tendon or ligament, which will help you decide what type of specialist to see."

    You are clearly stating that it is a god idea to see a personal trainer or a primary care provider for DIFFERENTIAL diagnosis... To DISTIGUISH a ligamentus injury from a capsular, or a musculotendonous injury is to differentiate one class of injury from another...

    Personal trainers do not even know what type of injuries can occur nonetheless differentiate ligamentus injuries from muscular ones...

    No, dont consult a pesonal trainer, if this trainer does that, he is not being responsible because he does not have the education and skills to do that to ANY degree...

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    May 16, 2007 2:54 AM GMT
    " I don't see what harm it could possibly do to get some advice about which specialist to see. As I repeat, I did not suggest that you not see anyone, just that you get help deciding which one to go to. It's a nice chance for someone to take a shot at trainers, GPs, and chiropractors, but I don't understand anyone advising that you randomly pick a specialist as a starting point."

    Let me give you an example. A patient of mine comes in with a diganosis from a primary care physician with L knee medial compartment DJD.. Upone examination, it is clearly that this patient possibly have either pes anserine irritation with MCL sprain or medial meniscus tear or both. What the primary care knows is only the patient has medial knee pain with loaing, but had no clue how to differentiate medial compartment DJD, pes anserine irritation, medial plica syndrom, patellar tendonitis, MCL strain or tear, or medial meniscus injuries. ALL the above will hurt in the similar area of the knee and test positive if you only use 2 or 3 tests. You need to do a squence of numerous mechanical tests in different variations for EACH test to come up with some clue and the possibly seek radiofilms to confirm your finding..

    Now this patient thought he had just DJD, and if he treated itas DJD, and if he actually had a bucket handel meniscus tear, sooner or later he runs the risk of break a piece of and the loose piece of meniscus would become a loose body jaming into other sturcture...

    WHAT IS THE HARM? Delayed proper treatment...

    I do know what I am talking about when it comes to joints, trust me, I teach interns...
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    May 16, 2007 3:01 AM GMT
    I just cant get over anyone seeking he advise of a trainer of which type of specialist to see... Really BAD idea..
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    May 16, 2007 1:17 PM GMT
    Wel'll just have to disagree. If you have unlimited time and money, I agree that it's a good idea to go straight to a specialist. You can guess which one to start with-- I'm sure any specialist will be better at sending you to another specalist than a trainer would. And of course, you won't delay getting treatment because all specialists are available 24/7 for appointments without referrals.

    If on the other hand, you are one of those rare people with limited time or money, or you encounter one of those rare specialists who can't see you on a moment's notice, you might want to start with a general practitioner or trainer.

    As for trainers, you are right, I polled all of them in the US, and none of them have any medical knowledge whatsoever.

    As you may see, I am being sarcastic. Let me give you an example of when you might want to consult a trainer. You are doing an exercise, and you hear a pop followed by intense pain in your lower leg. It's so bad you have to lie down. You ask your trainer what to do. He looks at your leg and says "the bone is sticking out, I think I should call 911." I haven't met a trainer who would not be capable of that differential diagnosis, and I don't think it's fair to trainers to assume that they can be no help at all in desiding how to procede when you have an injury. They may not be doctors (some are), but they can offer you advice on which doctor to see first, which is better than no advice.

    Furthermore, even with doctors, with anything serious, it's a good idea to get a second opinion, and having opinions from a trainer, a GP, and a specialist is not a bad thing. A trainer mught know your form, and be able to suggest HOW you got injured better than a doctor. A GP will generally know your history better, and might see related conditions (such as that your cholosterol medicine is affecting your muscles). A specialist will be better at diagnosing a specific problem. But it's not my opinion that ruling out advice from others and going straight to specialists for everything is a good practice. I think everyone has something positive to offer, and you should use all of their services appropriately.
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    May 16, 2007 1:31 PM GMT
    You are completely twisting and manipulating your original statements...

    You orginally said to consult a personal trainer to get advice concerning which specialist to see...

    And you siad it made no sesn for anyone just to randomly advice which spcialist to see... I am not just anyone giving random advise. If anyone is doing that, you are..., and pointing them to the wrong places

    And I specifcially said if your insurance aloows direct access to specialists...

    Now you ure talking about an acute injusry in a gym. You dont need a personal trainer to call 911. ANYONE can.

    2nd opinons from another physician was not even discussed in the original reply. What does that have to do with what I recommended and disagred with in the first place? You were talking about advising someone to go to a chiropractor and personal trainer and primary care (primary care I am not going to arue too much) for advise on writs injuries...

    Advisgin someone with subjective described symptons of mechanical wrist problems to a chiropractor and personal trainer is just not responsible. Advising someone to not go directly to a hand /wrist specialist IF the person's insurance has direct access to specailist wihtout primary care referral is also not ver wise becasue you endy spending more money and delay proper treatment.

    You just twisted your original post all over the place..

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    May 16, 2007 1:42 PM GMT
    And I was being responsible to give the advise I gave. If this was about aknee or shoulder , I would ahve asked for more information, suggest possible conditions, and STILL advise the person to seek out proper medical attention. Just like what I have done in the forum about knee ppain, under cylcing, under sports, and various other thread under injuries and prevention.

    And I never conclusively say what the condition is, but after many questions, provid possible conditions with FULL meidcal explaination and STILL advise them to go see specialist.

    I already said I do not treat hands and wrist, but I do know what a mechanical wrist condition in general sounds like, so to be responsible, I advised him to see a hand/wrist person.

    IF I went ahead and randomly suggest chiropractors or personal trainers or to see a specialist in the wron areas, I would be irresponsble.
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    May 17, 2007 3:01 AM GMT
    I'm tired of arguing this one-- further debate between the two of us is off the topic, I'll stand by my original post. What I said should be clear to most readfers, there is no need for me to rehash further.