Effeminacy: A dilemma

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    Jan 02, 2010 8:02 PM GMT
    So I thought I would post a topic on a very controversial subject within the gay/bi male community: effeminacy.

    I feel that there is grave discrimination against guys exhibiting feminine qualities. Almost every single profile in Real Jock and other gay/bi social networks specifies that the user is looking for "other masculine guys", or mentions phrases like "Not into fem guys" or "Only into normal guys"... In many cases, effeminacy seems to be the deal breaker... no matter how hot you are, being feminine is the ULTIMATE TURN OFF for a lot of guys.

    What is so wrong about fem types? I consider myself to be a normal guy, but once in a while I let out the "Oh my god like". When I go on dates, I keep hearing the same criticism, "you are too gay", as the reason for rejection.

    I wonder if I should I try to mold myself to be more masculine. But then many guys say "Masculinity is not an act." Shit it just seems like I am doomed. I don't feel like I can change my mannerisms because they seem to be automatic. Another problem is that my voice is naturally high-pitched... I am becoming too self conscious about being looked upon as feminine that I am even considering vocal surgery to lower my pitch. Some guys have even said "I just don't like your voice." LOL (though I am crying inside)

    I know many also argue that given our preference for males, it is totally fine to not like feminine dudes since after all we are attracted to MEN by definition. And I have to admit that I am not naturally attracted to other effeminate boys either, though I strive to look past that, in the same way a chubby guy gives another chubby guy a chance. It takes a toll on my self esteem and I cannot help but sometimes hate myself for being feminine. It seems like being gay is ok as long as you are normal and masculine. Otherwise you are not of the same rank.

    What makes a gay/bi guy masculine? Are there "masculine" guys out there who tolerate femmy dudes? What can a feminine guy do to become more masculine? What is "too gay" to you?

    ***I realize this may be a very touchy subject and that it may be a venue for derogatory remarks to be made. So let's all respect each other while still genuinely exposing your point of view.***
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2010 8:27 PM GMT
    Hey Velozidad, welcome to Realjock!

    Hmmm...two things. First, when you read, "into normal guys" I don't think you should equate that to mean "no fems" as usually saying you're into normal guys means only that and nothing more. Feminine and/or masculine traits are both pretty normal, eh?

    Second, when a guy posts that he's not into feminine this or that, I think it actually does a lot of people a favour - they can move right along to someone welcoming and even loving their particular traits.
    No one has complete control over who or what they find to be a turn-on
    sexually and romantically. Lol, if it was that easy there would be very few single people on the planet.
    I think of it as someone posting that they'e only into leather etc. or only taller than me guys or shorter than me guys etc. It's way better to know right off the bat than throw yourself at someone who you belatedly find out is turned on by something you're not.

    -Doug of meninlove

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    Jan 02, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    Good topic!
  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Jan 02, 2010 9:40 PM GMT
    Interesting topic,
    I prefer masculine men because " I dont want pussy on my back"...icon_exclaim.gif
    However, i have many FEM friends and trannys too but sex with anyone not masculine doesnt appeal to me...
    Alot of masculine guys out there are attracted to FEM guys, keep looking..
  • DrobUA

    Posts: 1331

    Jan 02, 2010 10:09 PM GMT
    First off, not all gay guys prefer masculine guys. Yes, you see that a lot in profiles but in many cases the person writing that is just insecure with their own masculinity and trying to come off as "manly" guy that only likes other masculine guys.

    There are many guys who are only attracted to guys who are more on the fem side. Just like some guys are only attracted to cross dressers and so on.

    As far as changing your mannerisms goes, I wouldn't because then you wouldn't be you. If you still want to, most of your mannerisms come from the people you spend most of your time with. You subconsciously pick them up from your friends. Think about groups of friends, most dress alike, use the same phrases, and even sound alike.
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    Jan 02, 2010 10:47 PM GMT
    Welcome to RJ Velozidad!

    RealJock is skewed towards guys preferring someone naturally masculine by nature of what it is, so I wouldn't worry too much about what people post here. There are tons of guys in the gay community that prefer or don't care about whether someone is masculine or feminine. I should hope you aren't being discriminated against because of your mannerisms, but by the same token, just remember it the end, people like what they like, and don't take things too personally, although it can be hard to have that point of view.

    Don't change yourself though. If you're happy the way you are, then good on ya. If you''re unhappy about something, ask yourself why you're unhappy before you go trying to change it. In any case, keep trying, and you'll find someone who loves you for who you are. You deserve nothing less.
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    Jan 02, 2010 10:58 PM GMT
    V

    Just treat the "label" as a disclaimer. It really makes it easier for me if I care or should message the owner of the profile. Please don't change who you are just because others don't particular like one of your personality. There are others that will like the way you are ... so cheer up.

    Those who rejects you here mostly are looking for a screw or long term relationship. If you are here for the nutritional, workout, and other good gay lifestyle tips, then who the F cares if you are a FEM, a BUTCH, or whatever. Does this make any sense?

    I will back off the lawn when I see a sign that says "Boys Next Door" .....



    Happy 2010
  • oookellyooo

    Posts: 116

    Jan 02, 2010 11:00 PM GMT
    jimbobthedevil saidWelcome to RJ Velozidad!

    RealJock is skewed towards guys preferring someone naturally masculine by nature of what it is, so I wouldn't worry too much about what people post here. There are tons of guys in the gay community that prefer or don't care about whether someone is masculine or feminine. I should hope you aren't being discriminated against because of your mannerisms, but by the same token, just remember it the end, people like what they like, and don't take things too personally, although it can be hard to have that point of view.

    Don't change yourself though. If you're happy the way you are, then good on ya. If you''re unhappy about something, ask yourself why you're unhappy before you go trying to change it. In any case, keep trying, and you'll find someone who loves you for who you are. You deserve nothing less.


    best advice so far ^ ^
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Jan 02, 2010 11:04 PM GMT
    Don't change yourself to try and fit in, because about the time you do that there will always be someone who will find something else to criticize. Just be yourself, embrace that, and be good at it.
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:05 PM GMT
    well here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:07 PM GMT
    Quentin Crisp managed to get laid plenty so I wouldn't worry about it.
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:08 PM GMT
    Ok I will be honest. If discrimination means that I can't be attracted to a fem guy, then I am a discriminator. It certainly doesn't mean that I can't have friends that are fem, cause I do have friends that are fem.

    We all have our preferences and we can all feel discriminated about at some point. Even the most "perfect" man in the world can fall short in someone's eyes ie. they can be too perfect for someone, too tall for someone else, or too masculine for another...

    The problem becomes when you refuse to associate yourself with a certain characteristic someone else has. I am not into fem guys sexually but it doesn't mean I can't associate myself with them...
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:11 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren



    I agree, I want me a man
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:14 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    Do you really think Effeminate guys want to act feminine? Why have to "endure all the shit that comes with being gay" times 2?

    But yeah, there are plenty of guys out there who are not into masculine guys like MsclDrew...

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    Jan 02, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    This is pretty harsh. I don't think it's a matter of "wanting to act like a girl". In fact, I've been femme since birth. Theories abound as to the cause of both femininity in males and homosexuality.

    And the idea that masculine guys who pass as straight when they choose have suffered the way those of us who don't pass is laughable. Gender nonconformity will get your ass kicked way before sucking dick will.

    Now, there are many, many of us who don't "put on" an act, or do drag, but are still feminine. In fact, there are many straight guys who appear femme. The constant assumption that chafes my ass on here is that those of us who are femme are engaged in some elaborate act wherein we choose to be feminine. I think it's more complicated than that and there's far less agency in terms of our gender expression.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 02, 2010 11:18 PM GMT
    Everybody's entitled to their preferences, whether it's top/bottom, body type, race, religion, nationality, hair style, height, weight, income, masculine/feminine, political affilliation, and on and on.

    Be yourself, out and proud.
    There are plenty of guys who would be glad to have you.
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:18 PM GMT
    Inpulze said
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    Do you really think Effeminate guys want to act feminine? Why have to "endure all the shit that comes with being gay" times 2?

    But yeah, there are plenty of guys out there who are not into masculine guys like MsclDrew...



    Mate MsclDrew meant the shit that comes to being gay in general.
  • DrobUA

    Posts: 1331

    Jan 02, 2010 11:21 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    This is pretty harsh. I don't think it's a matter of "wanting to act like a girl". In fact, I've been femme since birth. Theories abound as to the cause of both femininity in males and homosexuality.

    And the idea that masculine guys who pass as straight when they choose have suffered the way those of us who don't pass is laughable. Gender nonconformity will get your ass kicked way before sucking dick will.

    Now, there are many, many of us who don't "put on" an act, or do drag, but are still feminine. In fact, there are many straight guys who appear femme. The constant assumption that chafes my ass on here is that those of us who are femme are engaged in some elaborate act wherein we choose to be feminine. I think it's more complicated than that and there's far less agency in terms of our gender expression.


    Don't it it get to you, ignorance id the world's most widespread disease.
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:27 PM GMT
    You should absolutely not change a thing about yourself to accommodate the comfort level of someone else, especially when you are first getting to know them. It does you and them a disservice.
    I get called, cute, adorable, sweet... all that nice stuff. It's also been said that I have "girlish charm" which I've always equated to femininity. However, I rock climb, box, practice martial arts, run marathons, am a triathlete, am tattooed, pierced and scarred. I love riding on the back of motorcycles, gnarly bars and getting in fights. Do I bat my eyes, smile uncontrollably and play coy... uh, that's just the beginning!!
    The strongest people I know, emotionally AND physically, are women and to be correlated as such is far from an insult to me. I might be fem, but this fem out performs most bros and dudes... so quite honestly, they shouldn't like me, I've shattered more than one fragile self image.

    There's more to being a man than masculinity... don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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    Jan 02, 2010 11:31 PM GMT
    DrobUA said
    Christian73 said
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    This is pretty harsh. I don't think it's a matter of "wanting to act like a girl". In fact, I've been femme since birth. Theories abound as to the cause of both femininity in males and homosexuality.

    And the idea that masculine guys who pass as straight when they choose have suffered the way those of us who don't pass is laughable. Gender nonconformity will get your ass kicked way before sucking dick will.

    Now, there are many, many of us who don't "put on" an act, or do drag, but are still feminine. In fact, there are many straight guys who appear femme. The constant assumption that chafes my ass on here is that those of us who are femme are engaged in some elaborate act wherein we choose to be feminine. I think it's more complicated than that and there's far less agency in terms of our gender expression.


    Don't it it get to you, ignorance id the world's most widespread disease.


    Ditto
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:32 PM GMT
    EasilyDistracted saidYou should absolutely not change a thing about yourself to accommodate the comfort level of someone else, especially when you are first getting to know them. It does you and them a disservice.
    I get called, cute, adorable, sweet... all that nice stuff. It's also been said that I have "girlish charm" which I've always equated to femininity. However, I rock climb, box, practice martial arts, run marathons, am a triathlete, am tattooed, pierced and scarred. I love riding on the back of motorcycles, gnarly bars and getting in fights. Do I bat my eyes, smile uncontrollably and play coy... uh, that's just the beginning!!
    The strongest people I know, emotionally AND physically, are women and to be correlated as such is far from an insult to me. I might be fem, but this fem out performs most bros and dudes... so quite honestly, they shouldn't like me, I've shattered more than one fragile self image.

    There's more to being a man than masculinity... don't let anyone tell you otherwise.



    You Sir IS HOT...
  • t0theheights

    Posts: 428

    Jan 02, 2010 11:33 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidwell here's the answer to the 100,000 dollar question

    If we wanted to fuck something that looks, talks, walks and acts like a girl we would be straight...and not have to endure all the shit that comes with being gay.

    it's a double standard of effeminate guys to say I want to act like a girl... and be with a man. I see as gay, guy that wants to be with a guy I do feel sympathy for everything under the sexuality rainbow and support them in whatever way they want to express themselves but I don't feel a connection to them...or an obligation to automatically agree with everything just because were "gay" brethren


    The above is the exact kind of insecurity to avoid like the plague...

    Personally, I also appreciate the "only into masc guys" tagline, not because I'm particularly feminine myself, but because I try not to associate with insecure men who think they have some right to define what masculinity is or how gay men are "supposed" to act.

    The fact is masculinity is dynamic and fluid, with vast differences across cultures and individuals. Any one who tries to set rigid rules about who and what is "masc" vs. "fem" has been brainwashed by society's homophobic prejudices and made to feel insecure about themselves; they then express this insecurity by denigrating others who typify the qualities they were trained to hate--and are afraid to see in themselves. They have issues that need resolving, and are best worth avoiding.

    Don't change who you are for any one, ever, especially not for pretentious insecure dolts. Be yourself, always, and any one worth knowing--as a friend or lover--will appreciate you for who you really are.
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:34 PM GMT
    This is getting juicy... LOL
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    Jan 02, 2010 11:42 PM GMT
    If I wanted to date girls, I would. I'm not interested in that.
  • t0theheights

    Posts: 428

    Jan 02, 2010 11:51 PM GMT
    chuckystud saidIf I wanted to date girls, I would. I'm not interested in that.


    Being a guy has to do with having a penis between your legs, rather than a vagina. How you act, what you like to do, and who you hang out with are as irrelevant as what you eat for breakfast and what kind of car you drive. Any one who defines "being a guy" based upon anything besides anatomy has issues and deep-seated insecurity about themselves, period.