Gay guys who lash out at other gay guys.

  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 04, 2010 6:25 AM GMT
    I spend alot of time wondering where the gay guys on this site come from, because I don't encounter it much in the real world - where gay men thankfully seem to understand that they're in the midst of a battle for basic human rights and thus do not feel the need to attack each other for being "masculine" or "feminine" or "promiscuous" or "unsympathetic" or whatever other terms you guys would like to throw around.

    Being gay or "homosexual" (as some of you insist on defining it so you don't have to chose a label) should have given you the perspective that many genuine differences are the building blocks of tolerance. By showing acceptance for the lifestyles of others, you increase the chances that acceptance and love will be shown to you - not just by straight men and women but by the gay community as a whole. You're not going to be shown much sympathy if you start off from a position of attack - which is of course why most of you are single.

    [EDIT for the nitpickers: My statement is not that most single guys are single because they're bitter and angry, but that most bitter and angry guys are single because they're angry and bitter.]

    I urge you to ask yourself how you would have the world as a whole treat you and to embrace that vision.

    "Grant that I may not seek to be consoled as to console;
    To be understood, as to understand;
    To be loved, as to love;
    For it is in giving that we receive..
    It is in pardoning that we are pardoned.."
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 04, 2010 8:27 AM GMT
    I've officially lost faith in the human condition...

    icon_cry.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:32 AM GMT
    that's unfortunate..

    However, you didn't leave a thread topic open to discussion, what am I or anyone else meant to say when you have made a case and effectively closed it off leaving no real room for discussion?

    You didn't really ask a question, just stated a fact as you see it, but where to go from there?
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 04, 2010 8:42 AM GMT
    Not what I meant, Tank.

    But I do love you for making me feel a little bit better.

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2010 9:00 AM GMT
    chocolate makes you feel better too *nods*
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2010 2:58 PM GMT
    Wow, nice post styrgan!!!

  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Jan 04, 2010 3:30 PM GMT
    Just goes to show that we are not as different as we sometimes like to think. icon_cry.gif
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    Jan 04, 2010 3:40 PM GMT
    Have you forgotten this is a forum? I question what kind of responses you seek when you've made such a broad statement that most of us are single because we lack your standards for social etiquette. That sentence alone could make someone focus on the comment other than the body of thread. Don't think that these guy's that post don't represent the guys in your hood because they do. Something about the net allows some to present themselves a little more brash as your in someones space but not necessarily in someones face. here, your free to voice your opinion to someones who's miles, oceans and towns away to say what's at your core and often times when presented w/ the opportunity face to face the challenges that present itself w/ truth leave one, to be a little bit more reserved!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jan 04, 2010 3:50 PM GMT
    Styrgan, I understand your sadness and frustration on this matter. I have felt the same frustration many times here at RJ when I see things said on here that are just so over-the-top, misguided, and just plain wrong by any rational thinking person, yet the ones spewing it can't see it even though it is out there for pretty much everyone to see. A perfect example of this was the recent "Rush Limbaugh" thread in which many posters zoomed in with their "Rush Needs To Die" celebratory rants and death wishes. Some of it just went beyond the pale. Good people do not wish anyone ill-will, and certainly not death -- period. Their justification for such hate-filled rhetoric would have been laughable had it not been so utterly sad and disappointing to see. Now, before this thread turns into a Rush Limbaugh death cry all over again, let me just say that I find Rush despicable at times too...most of the time actually...but he's still a human being. To be honest, I haven't even paid that much attention to Rush's rantings over the years, so I have no idea how "anti-gay" he really is. Regardless, he could stand shouting "I HATE GAYS" from the rooftops on a daily basis and it still wouldn't justify wishing him dead. You do not win friends and influence people by stooping even lower than those you're trying to battle against.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2010 4:00 PM GMT
    Making blanket statements about how bad gay people are is really the business of lots of gay hate groups. So no, gay people should not take part in that. If someone who is gay REALLY wants to make blanket statements about other gay people they should focus on what particular "behavior" they are really talking about.

    I think in most cases, you will find that the things gay people are accused of (if they are real) are actually the same for straight people .. so it is wrong to label it as a "gay problem" in the first place.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 04, 2010 4:46 PM GMT
    RJ is a gay community with allot of differences. I learned so much from many perspectives on soo many topics. These are differences you spoke of concerning basic human rights. The very nature of Forums is to express a view. I say let them speak however they want. Look for any form of humor, reason, and emotions. Someone wants to regurgitate, let them. Air off some steam, let them. Make a blanket statement, let them. It is a forum. I look for positive thoughts and ignore the rest. Like panning for gold. Throw out the rocks. I find the men on RJ insightful sages, witty, and smart both world and street. Did I mention soo many are handsome outside and INSIDE.

    There is plenty of hope in humanity. I find part of it right here.





  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Jan 04, 2010 9:50 PM GMT
    I know what you mean, we should all stick together even more so now than ever, I dont know why some of our brothers and sisters[of dorothy] choose to be unkind toward each other...
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    Jan 04, 2010 10:03 PM GMT
    I read the book "The Four Agreements" a few years back, and from time to time, I try to apply them to my everyday life.

    Don't get me wrong, it's still at times, very difficult to separate myself from other people's comments, but it's getting easier with practice.

    1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
    Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

    2. Don't Take Anything Personally
    Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

    3. Don't Make Assumptions
    Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

    4. Always Do Your Best
    Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14385

    Jan 04, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    The gay community is just like any other community of human beings. There are going to be factions and there is going to be division because like any other community of people, the gay community is very diverse with different feelings, opinions, and viewpoints. We should try to be more respectful of others opinions but unfortunately we are not and many of us get very belligerant towards one another. A good example is the forum discussion about Rush Limbaugh and his health problems. Now granted Rush Limbaugh is a despicable, ignorant, right wing windbag but that does not justify the disgusting death wishes from a couple of realjockers. We need to be more considerate of one another that is for sure.
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    Jan 05, 2010 12:32 AM GMT
    Lo, ye shall look upon the calamities of heresy with beclouded eyes. icon_redface.gificon_redface.gif
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    Jan 05, 2010 1:25 AM GMT
    styrgan’s post is good.

    as some of you may know, I’m pretty staunchly secular, but soulman’s recommendation of the Four Agreements is a good one. it has some embarrassing gaffes as I recall (i read it years ago), but its basic import was good.
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    Jan 05, 2010 2:51 AM GMT
    I was shocked myself by death wishes to another human being. This guy in New Orleans was arrested by a death threat to Obama and his wife. The hate some show for others is unbeleivable. Hate is murder in the heart. We have enough evil in this world without wishing it upon someone.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 05, 2010 3:23 PM GMT
    Hillie saidI question what kind of responses you seek when you've made such a broad statement that most of us are single because we lack your standards for social etiquette. That sentence alone could make someone focus on the comment other than the body of thread. Don't think that these guy's that post don't represent the guys in your hood because they do. Something about the net allows some to present themselves a little more brash as your in someones space but not necessarily in someones face. here, your free to voice your opinion to someones who's miles, oceans and towns away to say what's at your core and often times when presented w/ the opportunity face to face the challenges that present itself w/ truth leave one, to be a little bit more reserved!


    Try to understand what I said about being single. My statement was not that most single guys are single because they're bitter and angry, but that most bitter and angry guys are single because they're angry and bitter.

    Your point about net-based forums has a certain logic to it, and I do agree with it. In general, however, people are who they are. I think being online is kind of like being drunk. It's only amplifying your expression of your current views, as opposed to giving you brand new ones..
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 05, 2010 3:35 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThe gay community is just like any other community of human beings. There are going to be factions and there is going to be division because like any other community of people, the gay community is very diverse with different feelings, opinions, and viewpoints. We should try to be more respectful of others opinions but unfortunately we are not and many of us get very belligerent towards one another.


    I think you're missing the general point I was trying to make. The idea of arguing one moment that society and many in society are prejudiced towards gay men, and in the next breath promoting ignorant stereotypes about gay men is hypocritical defiance of logic.

    We are not just like any other community in a certain sense. Our current battle with the outside world and the diversity that has always existed within the community should give us a different perspective on tolerance, and for most of us, I think it does.

    Perhaps it is unrealistic to expect perfection and somewhat wrong for me to make the minority a larger group than it actually is... which would make me a hypocrite as well.

    icon_eek.gif
  • inuman

    Posts: 733

    Jan 05, 2010 3:40 PM GMT
    styrgan said
    Hillie saidI question what kind of responses you seek when you've made such a broad statement that most of us are single because we lack your standards for social etiquette. That sentence alone could make someone focus on the comment other than the body of thread. Don't think that these guy's that post don't represent the guys in your hood because they do. Something about the net allows some to present themselves a little more brash as your in someones space but not necessarily in someones face. here, your free to voice your opinion to someones who's miles, oceans and towns away to say what's at your core and often times when presented w/ the opportunity face to face the challenges that present itself w/ truth leave one, to be a little bit more reserved!


    Try to understand what I said about being single. My statement was not that most single guys are single because they're bitter, but that most bitter and angry guys are single because they're angry and bitter.

    Your point about net-based forums has a certain logic to it, and I do agree with it. In general, however, people are who they are. I think being online is kind of like being drunk. It's only amplifying your expression of your current views, as opposed to giving you brand new ones.. which is where most of these wars get started.



    Well I am not single, in fact yesterday we celebrated our one year as an official couple, even though its been literally 14 months, we choose this day as it was the day we moved in together. But that is neither here nor there, the thing is I honestly don't agree with what you are saying in the slightest. What you basically want it love and harmony and good will and all the positive things in the world and all the negative things to stop. Well unless you can find a cure for it or cast some magic spell to get everyone to do as YOU say then I'll stick the the freedom to speak, freedom to give an opinion, freedom of the mind. Even though sometimes its not bright or positive it still gives you a slight insight as to why someone would say something on a message board.

    The statement about war was a little to left for me, personally I think your going for a passive aggressive method to get all the negativity to stop, its not going to, as a few people have said to others many a times, you can choose not to read the threads or participate in them either, its about choice, that's as best you'll get at getting all the "negativity" to stop in here.

    Oh and I wasn't being negative, its all in how you read into it as well, I was making a blank statement with my personal view on it, wasn't negative or harsh in anyway, just my two cents, so attacking what I said will not get the results you seek, just so you know...
  • camfer

    Posts: 892

    Jan 05, 2010 3:43 PM GMT
    styrgan said
    I think you're missing the general point I was trying to make. The idea of arguing one moment that society and many in society are prejudiced towards gay men, and in the next breath promoting ignorant stereotypes about gay men is hypocritical defiance of logic.

    Do you mean ignorant stereotypes like "Most gay men are single because they are bitter"? icon_wink.gif
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jan 05, 2010 3:45 PM GMT
    camfer said
    styrgan said
    I think you're missing the general point I was trying to make. The idea of arguing one moment that society and many in society are prejudiced towards gay men, and in the next breath promoting ignorant stereotypes about gay men is hypocritical defiance of logic.

    Do you mean ignorant stereotypes like "Most gay men are single because they are bitter"? icon_wink.gif


    You need to reread my response to Hillie.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 05, 2010 3:49 PM GMT
    Well you certainly make some good points.....

    Of course this is a forum and we are invited to share ideas, opinions and views. Some perhaps share more than what is necessary or requested...
    in the real world, most are not encouraged to share their views in this way.

    Having said that, some of the nitpicking here is pretty discouraging.
    Acceptance and open mindedness is something we strive to achieve, we certainly should accept it more from others here and elsewhere.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jan 05, 2010 3:50 PM GMT
    styrgan saidYou're not going to be shown much sympathy if you start off from a position of attack - which is of course why most of you are single.




    Hmmmm...I see. So, if that's why most of us are single --- what's your excuse? Just curious icon_lol.gif
  • camfer

    Posts: 892

    Jan 05, 2010 3:52 PM GMT
    Oh okay I am following you better now, thanks. My bad.