A gay man not accepting of guys in the closet

  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Jan 04, 2010 7:09 AM GMT
    I was talking to a guy earlier and we were totally getting along and seemed to click... then he found out I am not yet out to friends and family. At that point he told me he had no respect for me and could not continue to talk to me.

    I am still kind of... stunned??

    Now, I have my own reasons, and I know its great that some people have the support, and the guts to come out knowing there are challenges... but I guess, we all have to do it when it is the right time for yourself, right?

    Isn't it sort of odd, that a gay man is intollerant and unaccepting of a gay man that is in the closet? I would assume he has fought for tolerance and acceptance at some point... so its sort of a double standard, in my opinion.

    I am just bugged and feel myself ranting now. Anyone have opinions on this too?
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    Jan 04, 2010 7:21 AM GMT
    it breaks my heart to know that someone has to hide a part of who they are, especially something that can drive a person into a very bad place within them self..

    However, I support those people and my EX (who I had a very long successful relationship with) was much like you, although a few people did know, his parents and family didn't and a lot of his friends..

    I think it's disappointing that people like that are out there, however, they are and why, well, I wont speculate.. but it's a shame
  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Jan 04, 2010 7:58 AM GMT
    I don't feel its hiding ny part of me. I sre don't ask my sister anything about hr sexual preferences... so why should myfamily need to know about mine? The only thing it would do is cause tension and make things harder for me. hen with trying to get into the fire department... that could sure make it tough being the probationary gay guy.
    So I don't look at it as hiding it, they just certainly don't need to know everything.
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:12 AM GMT
    Does your sister bring her significant other home to be part of the family? does or will your sister have children which you and the family will be part of? at family get together are all family members there? including families significant others?

    I when I say hiding your sexuality, I do not mean talking about who you are fucking or how, I am talking about hiding who you are as a person, who you wish to have at your side or who you have at your side and having your family there with you.

    Being gay person is not just who you fuck, it is about who you are, who you aspire to be, who you aspire to have with you and you allowing others to join you in those persuits.

    Yes, you are hiding a significant part of who you are, but I am not here to tell you what you are doing is right or wrong, if you read what I said closely, I support you and people like you, I feel it is a shame that you need to do it, but you have to do what you feel is right for you.

    But the simple thing is, by almost your own admission you think who you are as a gay person purely revolves around your sex life, when in fact it is only a small part of it
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:15 AM GMT
    If you had been freed from a room you had been held captive in for years .. where you had learned to hate yourself, would you want to go back in for someone that did not understand or appreciate your new freedom?

    Might the double standard be in wanting to be out yourself, you don't appreciate others having made it out not wanting to go back into a place that was miserable to them?

    I have personally been able to tolerate a relationship with a person in the closet in the past, but I think it would have upset me greatly to see a person inside the closet lobbing stones at those outside.

    As long as you feel like you deserve to be in the closet you will not be able to fully accept and love yourself for being gay or love someone else that is gay. If you feel like you DON'T deserve to be in the closet, then why should you feel like someone else should?

    When I was a child I liked to hide and play in the closet flashlight and all .. if someone told me to stay in there or forced me to be in there, then it would have been child abuse and torture.

    By all means stay in the closet as long as you feel you have to, but don't think someone else should need to go BACK there because you are comfortable there.
  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Jan 04, 2010 8:29 AM GMT
    lilTanker saidDoes your sister bring her significant other home to be part of the family? does or will your sister have children which you and the family will be part of? at family get together are all family members there? including families significant others?

    I when I say hiding your sexuality, I do not mean talking about who you are fucking or how, I am talking about hiding who you are as a person, who you wish to have at your side or who you have at your side and having your family there with you.

    Being gay person is not just who you fuck, it is about who you are, who you aspire to be, who you aspire to have with you and you allowing others to join you in those persuits.

    Yes, you are hiding a significant part of who you are, but I am not here to tell you what you are doing is right or wrong, if you read what I said closely, I support you and people like you, I feel it is a shame that you need to do it, but you have to do what you feel is right for you.

    But the simple thing is, by almost your own admission you think who you are as a gay person purely revolves around your sex life, when in fact it is only a small part of it


    Maybe it would be different if I had a significant other. But as of right now, the people want in my life is my family. I want them by my side. They have supported me in everything I have done and the challenges I have faced in life.

    I guess for me, being gay really is just my sex life. Thinking hard... and really, there is nothing else gay about my life but the bedroom stuff. No rainbow flags, no gay events. My life is mostly about my family, friends, and work. Being gay is such a small part of me I suppose.
  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Jan 04, 2010 8:31 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidMight the double standard be in wanting to be out yourself, you don't appreciate others having made it out not wanting to go back into a place that was miserable to them?


    Ha! not at all. I have no desire to be out. and if people are happy being out, I certainly wouldn't wish them to be unhappy again... similarly, if I am happy while being in the closet, why would anyone else wish me to make my lfe more challenging by coming out?
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:32 AM GMT
    I'm fully out and I'm wondering if this guy that said he had no respect for you for still being in the closet was always out, what his story was, and just how much he knew about your individual circumstances when he told you that.

    The answers to those questions might explain his lack of empathy and sympathy.

    While being closeted doesn't advance the gay community I respect individual choice. Having said that, I will confess to having been closeted and self loathing for years and believe me, it's much easier to be out. There's never a good time to come out. But doing so will alleviate stress you may not even be aware you have, and in the long run you'll be much happier.
  • drypin

    Posts: 1798

    Jan 04, 2010 8:46 AM GMT
    The reaction of this guy the OP was talking with seems pretty hurtful and unproductive to me. I'd guess that not being "out" was a very uncomfortable, even humiliating experience for him.

    I think the OP is probably fortunate that their conversation didn't go any further, because it might have led to miscommunication and resentment on both sides.

    I would think that...
    people for whom being gay only means who they fuck and is not in any way related to who they are romantically attracted to... and
    people who are both romantically and sexually attracted to other men...
    won't mix very well. The second group has dreams and hopes that cannot include the first like holding hands or kissing in public, joining the families at the holidays and on special occasions, being a role model for young people who want to come out. And they might experience the first group's reluctance to do these things as repression.

    I think it's ridiculous to take sides or say that one group is wrong. They just don't mix well, especially in a relationship.

    The grand irony is that there are people in the second group who are most strongly attracted to people in the first group and vice versa.
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:49 AM GMT
    JaseinOC said
    ActiveAndFit saidMight the double standard be in wanting to be out yourself, you don't appreciate others having made it out not wanting to go back into a place that was miserable to them?

    Ha! not at all. I have no desire to be out. and if people are happy being out, I certainly wouldn't wish them to be unhappy again... similarly, if I am happy while being in the closet, why would anyone else wish me to make my lfe more challenging by coming out?
    If you are putting your needs first, then why should the other person not put their needs first. In either case you have answered your own question:

    Now, I have my own reasons, and I know its great that some people have the support, and the guts to come out knowing there are challenges... but I guess, we all have to do it when it is the right time for yourself, right?

    Isn't it sort of odd, that a gay man is intollerant and unaccepting of a gay man that is in the closet? I would assume he has fought for tolerance and acceptance at some point... so its sort of a double standard


    That person has their own reasons for not wanting to go anywhere near the closet now that they are out. It is a double standard to expect that person not to stick by his own reasons for being out while you stick to your reason for being in. If you want to be in there maybe you should find another closeted person.
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:52 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    ActiveAndFit saidAs long as you feel like you deserve to be in the closet you will not be able to fully accept and love yourself for being gay or love someone. If you feel like you DON'T deserve to be in the closet, then why should you feel like someone else should?

    Sorry I don't agree with you. Being in closet doesn't mean hating yourself being gay. Some guys feel comfortable being in closet. It is not their business to know if this person is gay or not. Why should people need to know his sexual preferences?
    You were not paying attention to my careful wording .. I said if you feel like you deserve to be in the closet. Some people are in there and don't want to be. If you think you deserve to put in there against your will then you are accepting that something is wrong with you.

    No gay person deserves to be in the closet because there is nothing wrong with being gay.
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    Jan 04, 2010 8:58 AM GMT
    JaseinOC saidMaybe it would be different if I had a significant other. But as of right now, the people want in my life is my family. I want them by my side. They have supported me in everything I have done and the challenges I have faced in life.

    I guess for me, being gay really is just my sex life. Thinking hard... and really, there is nothing else gay about my life but the bedroom stuff. No rainbow flags, no gay events. My life is mostly about my family, friends, and work. Being gay is such a small part of me I suppose.

    Rainbow flags, gay parades are not about being gay so much as more to have fun and show our pride for who we are...

    But again, Rainbow flags and gay events, still don't make you a gay man, I don't have a gay flag (I do have a rubber bracelet type thing that a mate got from the Sydney Mardi gras that I have on my telephoto lense, I felt it the most appropriate place to put it hehe) and I generally don't take part in gay events, I do support there existence and encourage more, but I rarely attend.

    But I am still a gay man and sex still isn't the prime factor of what makes me a gay man and this I think is where you lose the meaning, you are gay, be you thumping your chest in some pub with straight mates who talk about titty fucking women and spawning.. you are still a gay man when you are at work doing your job (what ever that is), you are gay when you are laying on the lounge watching a movie, you are gay when you are cuddling a man, you are gay when you laugh and you are gay when you don't.

    and most importantly, when someone asks that ever pertinent question "Do you have a girlfriend" your a gay man.

    You say your family have supported you, but, they don't, not really, they support only the part of you you want them to see, you don't even give them the opportunity to support you fully.
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    Jan 04, 2010 10:49 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidignore me, because i think i feeling a little buzz... (drunk) lol
    It's OK, I wanted people to understand what I was saying so it was good you questioned it.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 04, 2010 11:46 AM GMT
    I think this guy who totally dropped you like that was acting like an ass
    but you have to understand that alot of guys know the lying and the twisting of their core beliefs THEY had to go through before they came out

    I am not saying that that is what You are doing but it might be what they believe
    and something else is that for many who have come out it was a hard and difficult process and because of that we feel that we have no time for people who are not true to themselves and have not gone through the same trials

    But when you come down to it
    it's multi-factorial and you'll just have to chalk it up to his preference
    If you are happy the way you are be fine with it and move on
    ... if not then take your friend's advice and come out yourself
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    Jan 04, 2010 1:19 PM GMT
    I think the problem is the way the guy delivered the message.

    Saying he has no respect for you and will no longer speak to you is rude, disrespectful, and bullshit.

    But you can not blame him for saying "look, it's up to you how you want to live but I don't think we're going to have much in common."

    Unfortunately he chose the intolerant bullshit path. You're right, it's a double-standard.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jan 04, 2010 1:23 PM GMT
    Don't worry JaseinOC. He's probably just another consumerist tramp that unwittingly buys things from closeted bigots and homophobes just the same. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 04, 2010 1:39 PM GMT
    JaseinOC said Isn't it sort of odd, that a gay man is intollerant and unaccepting of a gay man that is in the closet? I would assume he has fought for tolerance and acceptance at some point... so its sort of a double standard, in my opinion.

    Odd how some who rightly demand acceptance from hetero society are so unwilling to tolerate the slightest deviation from what they deem correct gay behavior. To cite just one of many examples, just look at what happens on this site to anyone who admits having traditional religious beliefs.

    That said, when you decide the time is right to come out to your family you'll be surprised by two things: 1) how much they already had figured you out; and 2) how much easier your relationship with them will be afterward.
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    Jan 04, 2010 1:51 PM GMT
    I just recently came out to some family and friends. I think it is hypocritical for anyone to judge anyone else's decision to be out, or closeted. What next, people will verbalize their distain for two men to marry or adopt... oh wait, that happens already. To be gay and criticisze and of us is disgusting. You can have your opinion, but respect others.
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    Jan 04, 2010 1:58 PM GMT
    Totally agree with the OP that this was an bad attitude to take. Guys being in the closet is entirely up to them and I can completely understand why some might choose to be. I am out but that doesnt mean I expect anyone else to be if they don't want to. Being gay for me is about who I have a sexual relationship with and nothing else. It has no influence on any other part of my life and certainly has nothing to do with who I am, how I behave or what I aspire to as lilTanker said. I feel no association with the stereotypical gay scene, pride marches, effeminate behaviour etc but equally feel that people should do what they want to do, within reason. As such if a guy is uncomfortable talking about his sex life then it isn't anyone elses business anyway so who cares? Being gay doesn't make him who he is - it just means he sleeps with other guys. End of.
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Jan 04, 2010 2:01 PM GMT
    I am in the closet not due to my own choice. It for my own safety. You guys living in the gay friendly Western country have no idea how difficult it is for me.
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    Jan 04, 2010 2:40 PM GMT
    That guy reads like a complete dip shit for this reason. Knowing that not everyone's life travels the same path, distance and time, he feels on some level his choices have made him a better man than you. That hurdle that he thinks he overcame has left him somewhat bitter if not he would still sympathize w/ those who find themselves at a cross road. He could have been someone in your life that you seek for advice and clarity, if you do ever decide to make the choice. Instead he's left you questioning the identity of those you seek camaraderie frm. Living your life in truth is a very powerful force as you bare your soul for all the wrld to see w/out reservation. However that does not mean that someone who struggles w/ their own choice means it reflects his truth because it's not about him it's about you! Once again he's a dip shit!
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    Jan 04, 2010 2:48 PM GMT


    Well, there are many instances in the US where not being out keeps your job safe, for example. Coming out is an individual experience. It's different for each person.

    You can't force-help a chick to hatch. They have to push their way into their new world. Besides, if someone (like Jason's acquaintance) who is out is nasty to someone that isn't, what's the motivation for Jason to come out? Most of us have been hidden from others at one point or another, and usually for good reasons. Jason has listed a few. How different the experience would have gone had Jason's 'friend' said instead:

    "Hey man, it's really a great feeling out here. I know what it's like to be where you are, so if you decide to plunge ahead (come out) I'll be there for ya."

    Having a supportive group to help keep you on top of things/navigate possible family/friend pitfalls when you come out is a huge incentive. A good example is the odd topic we see here where someone says they're thinking of coming out and ask how the best way is to go about it. Many posters are supportive and kind, sympathetic and optimistic. Many carefully weigh the pluses and minuses of that OP's circumstances and advise accordingly. This is far far better than bitch slapping them with shame and with the school of hard knocks philosophy.

    Bill wasn't out to family or work when I met him. Did that stop me? Hell no; to base a person's worth or personality on whether they're out or not seems a little shallow to me. Bill had a chance to experience through me first-hand what it was like to be out to everyone and how wonderful it felt. It inspired him. I made it as easy for him as possible. I helped bring him out very gently, very considerately, to his friends and family. It wasn't all that easy for me when I came out, but why should it have to be that way for others? Each of us has the potential to be heroes for each other, instead of Cruella DeVilles, lol!

    -Doug

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    Jan 04, 2010 3:11 PM GMT
    JaseinOC saidIsn't it sort of odd, that a gay man is intollerant and unaccepting of a gay man that is in the closet? I would assume he has fought for tolerance and acceptance at some point... so its sort of a double standard, in my opinion.


    No not at all.

    Gay guys are human and are still capable of stupid human emotions and reactions.

    But I personally would not want to be with someone still in the closet. Being out is not about waving rainbow flags or marching in pride parades or flaunting one’s sexuality.

    To me, being out is not being ashamed if anyone were to find out your sexual orientation. I don't flaunt myself, but if someone were to ask, I wouldn't hide the fact that I am gay. Being out means you can talk to co-workers about what they did on their vacation with their spouse and what YOU did on your vacation with YOUR spouse.

    I'd want to meet the family of my future boyfriend/partner; I would not want to hide all of the time when his family and friends are around.

    However, not wanting a relationship with someone in the closet is different from losing all respect for that person. I was lucky to grow up in a moderately religious family in a 'blue-state' in the Northeast--moreover, the profession I plan to enter is accepting of those different.

    I am out to my whole family except my grandmother--she's just too old to understand... but if she ever asked, I wouldn't lie.

    Being gay may not be a huge part of whom you are... and that's cool. But if you were to enter into a long term relationship... you are asking a lot of someone to hide themselves from a part of your life.

    I feel that if everyone came out of the closet, the religious right would lose their power-hold on the gay community. But this is coming from someone who had the luxury of being brought up in a loving, accepting, and relatively non-religious family.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jan 04, 2010 3:31 PM GMT
    JaseinOC saidI was talking to a guy earlier and we were totally getting along and seemed to click... then he found out I am not yet out to friends and family. At that point he told me he had no respect for me and could not continue to talk to me.

    I am still kind of... stunned??

    Now, I have my own reasons, and I know its great that some people have the support, and the guts to come out knowing there are challenges... but I guess, we all have to do it when it is the right time for yourself, right?

    Isn't it sort of odd, that a gay man is intollerant and unaccepting of a gay man that is in the closet? I would assume he has fought for tolerance and acceptance at some point... so its sort of a double standard, in my opinion.

    I am just bugged and feel myself ranting now. Anyone have opinions on this too?


    I think it's just a sad reality of the gay world. You see the intolerance among gays clear as the light of day right here on RJ. God forbid that we don't ALL choose to live our lives with our "Gayness" being the center of our universe from which we judge everything and everyone. One's own sexuality is one of the most personal part of ourselves and each individual handles coming to terms with that differently, and in their own unique way, at their own preferred pace. No one has the right to judge or pressure you to do it any differently than your own personal comfort zone dictates.
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    Jan 04, 2010 3:49 PM GMT
    It IS a shame to meet guys who are in the closet. The only way for society to be more comfortable with gay men is for gay men to be open and proud in their daily lives. When you put a human face onto the whole issue rather than it being a social/religious or political issue, it helps.

    I've fought long and hard to get where I am now and it takes courage.

    But even though I hope that all gay or bi men are open about their sexuality, I realize that not everyone is ready for it (although fear shouldn't keep them in the closet, but it does).

    I have a few closeted gay friends. I don't like it. But the fact that they are in the closet does not erase the other good qualities about them. Maybe they are on their own path of discovery. Maybe knowing me will help them deal with it.

    They are still human. They still have feelings. We come up with a thousand reasons to judge people nowdays and dismiss them. I don't think being in the closet should be one of them.

    Love one another.