do you BELIEVE or do you KNOW

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2010 9:36 PM GMT
    i find the term religious homo a little controversial. And for this post i think i'll stick to the Christian side of things.

    but as far as your belief system goes(question for Christian realjockers)

    do you "believe"

    Jesus walked the earth,
    was the son of an infallible all powerful God,
    that he was conceived from the holy spirit by a virgin,
    and that he performed miracles?



    or do you "know"


    there is a difference between "believe" and "know"

    if you call yourself a believer, that means ur following based on faith. no facts, no proof, just on word of mouth and mindless following BUT, you know that ur "belief" system is just that.... a fact-less belief.

    to know is the same thing, but ur delusional to the reality that you are indeed going off of a 2000 year old tale past down from generations. And this 2000 year old tale, to you, is fact but which every level headed person would see as un-factual.
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    Jan 06, 2010 9:41 PM GMT




    "to pray to god is sane
    but to know he's actually listening is the exact opposite"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2010 9:52 PM GMT
    If you "knew", it would be science. Religion is all about belief.

    I wouldn't mock religion. Some religious practices are good. Like holidays, being all-inclusive, morals, etc. The problem is mainly when people try to force their beliefs on others.
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    Jan 06, 2010 9:55 PM GMT
    track_boi said

    "to pray to god is sane
    but to know he's actually listening is the exact opposite"



    Gregory House: "You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic."


    Chase: "You're gonna talk to a patient?"
    House: "God talks to him. It'd be arrogant of me to assume that I'm better than God."

    House: "Isn't it interesting... religious behavior is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart."


    I'd marry Greg House.
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    Jan 06, 2010 10:02 PM GMT
    I *believe*... I'll have another whiskey. Amen, pass the bong, the bills for the strippers and the straw I'm going to use when I snort lines off his AND her asses... pardon the blasphemy... that's just the way I pray... on both knees like everyone else, but with a full mouth. Damn there I go again... sorry. Christ on crutches I can't control my heathen ways... *sigh*
  • Aquanerd

    Posts: 845

    Jan 06, 2010 10:03 PM GMT
    The same level of "faith" and "hope" that religious people have in their beliefs is about the same level that anyone that puts "faith" or "hope" that a politician gives a flip about them other than to "whore" for their vote.
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    Jan 06, 2010 10:24 PM GMT
    I know there is something without any doubt!

    The fact when I was almost 30, with all the trials and tribulations I had endured from almost birth, buy the time I was almost 30, I was just about at ends wit, with the struggle of this thing called life. So much of my early struggle was forced on me by two waring families, and I being the first son of a first son, and so much of this was taken out on me.

    But by the time I was almost 30, I found all the hills I was forced to climb a fucking waist of time. I fell to my knees and asked for help for the power that is. I asked for love and security, for the struggle to end, and a chance to become me; to cut it short. It come to me in a few days time I would get both, but not together, and thats what I ended up with, I've been with my security for 20 years, now and my love soul mate has called Russia home for just about all the time he has been apart of my life. My struggles have all but been gone for 20 years and I know who I am now. But living with one person, and my love being so fair away, has not been without it's trials and tribulations either.

    I now well know why tears ran down my face the day it come to me, I would get both but not under the one roof; the pain of it all. yet I must count my blessings. I have truly been loved, and I have truly loved too. For one time in y life I met a man were both our hearts and souls connected. I have had the power that is shine it's love down on me. So I know there is something, as much in many ways I wish I could be ignorant to the fact.

    But I don't know if the Bible is a true history book, as I too belive in science and the big bang and evolution of man. But there is nothing to say the power that is did not blow the soul into man; but I do struggle with Adam and Eve.

    I'm sure a man named Jesus walked this earth, and did good deeds, but was he the son of God, I know nothing. To me the women who gave birth to him if the storey is true, was just another women, who just happened to be a virgin; some one had to be picked, so I pay her no special credit.

    I am neither athirst or christian. I live by the law of the land, and my own sense in what is right and wrong. If the power that shined it's love down on me, is God, then I know God does not hate us just because we are homosexuals, but we are judged on how we live our everyday life.

    But no matter what, I do not fear death, I've lived an amazing life, and when my time come I'll have no trouble letting go of this world. Will you?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
    Well, that was beautiful Pattison, thank you for sharing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2010 10:51 PM GMT
    Pattison saidI know there is something without any doubt!




    your coincidence is weak at best.... really?

    you know there is something....without doubt.

    what knowledge do you posses that i don't?

    the truth is you don't know anything about a higher power that i do not

    sorry

    illusions and coincidences can be deceiving
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 06, 2010 11:07 PM GMT
    Did a man called Jesus Christ walk the earth during the first century?
    There is some anecdotal evidence that he might have but no definitive proof that he existed

    Was he the Son of God
    Well who's this God guy?
    and what's his deal with virgins and all?
    The Jesus as the son of God and his birth and his resurrection have all been paddled to us before
    As the Horus the Sun God
    As the God Mithra who was Also born on Dec 25

    Yeah a guy named Jesus Might have existed ... but the direct line to the clouds?
    Just real good public relations and marketing icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 06, 2010 11:24 PM GMT
    track_boi said
    Pattison saidI know there is something without any doubt!




    your coincidence is weak at best.... really?

    you know there is something....without doubt.

    what knowledge do you posses that i don't?

    the truth is you don't know anything about a higher power that i do not

    sorry

    illusions and coincidences can be deceiving


    If thats the way you feel a need to see it, and dismiss it then thats fine with me. I was to tell a number of people in my life way back then, who stand under the banner of being a christian, what was to come to pass in my life, many like you dismissed this, because they believed themselves to be a better Christain, so why should I get anything. Well many of these people have had to question their faith, as what I said did come to pass, the power that is shined it's love down on me, and thats a fact. icon_biggrin.gificon_razz.gificon_cool.gif What I said was to come to pass.

    Why is it I was talking about what America now calls 9/11 way back in May of 1999. I told many this before it was to come to pass. made sure there was no happy Birthday for me that year, no cards, no cake no gifts either. Because as I told many when I awake on my 40th B'day the world would of changed, and I talked about Twin Towers just falling. Where you talking about this before hand?

    Did you have this knowledge before hand?

    The Pope was not talking about it either or warning the world!

    Maybe when you have talked to your God you did not do it with a true sincere heart.

    Yes I have had the love of the power that is shine down on me, I've truly been blessed. But take care in what you asked for, as you may get it. Be blessed and I hope you have the sun of good fortune shine down on you, as I have.....

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2010 11:34 PM GMT
    ummmm

    at first i didn't let the trench coat and barbecue for the dogs thing get to me but now i have to poke fun

    the only thing missing to complete this is the unmarked van with "free candy" written on it hahah

    i dont know you

    i really dont

    and all i can say out of what ive heard is.... your insane

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    Jan 06, 2010 11:43 PM GMT
    intolerance.jpg
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    Jan 06, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Track_boi

    Just another thread to tease us who believe.
    Yep, believe.
    Exactly like you too, pal.
    You say that you believe in evolution, for example - no, you would say that you KNOW that evolution took place. Now, did your knowledge of evolution came about from careful observation made over the last 200,000,000 years? Or did someone, or a group of people tell you, or did you read about it in a book, or watched a program on television or video? If your knowledge of evolution came by the second group, that is to say, through the Media, which ever form it might have taken, then your assertion that evolution is a reality is based on FAITH - believing what others have told you, including reading other people's writings.
    You weren't around to see it take place in front of your eyes.
    And I'm not talking about bacteria which has developed immunity against antibiotics or disinfectant. I'm talking about major species evolving from species that has no relationship with the original, for example, the dolphin returning to the seas after its wolf-like distant ancestor spent its life on land, and was more related to the canine family than to the delphinidae family.
    The same applies with me.
    I never saw for myself the birth of Jesus Christ, childhood, baptism, his ministry, his trial, crucifxion, his death and resurrection, and finally his ascention. But I believe.
    How come? Because others have told me? Yes, but there is much more.
    Ancient prophecy, such as Genesis 3:15, Psalm 22, Isaiah 35 and many others foretelling the coming of the Jewish Messiah who would be "cut off" to pay for our sins was accurately predicted to the finest last detail many hundreds of years before it happened.
    But most important, Jesus Christ is the only individual in the whole of human history to have risen from the dead.
    I can't prove this personally, but it is satisfying enough for me to believe. Others in more recent history believed exactly what I believed, and has cost them their lives. In fact, so convincing was their beliefs, that they sooner gave their lives rather than deny their risen Lord. And I'm not talking of a few misfits here. I'm talking about millions over the last two thousand years willingly giving their lives for the faith, many were intelligent and well educated, eg Bishop Latimer who was burnt alive in Oxford in 1555.
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    Jan 06, 2010 11:55 PM GMT
    I have thoughts on this but, honestly, we all know where this thread is going....


    train_wreck-782867.jpg


  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Jan 07, 2010 12:08 AM GMT
    But, seriously, where do Gnostics fit in? I mean, they have an intimate knowledge of G-d and believe in the myths (albeit as narratives in much the same way as one would read Narnia or Lord of the Rings) of their Christian belief.

    I think, really, that beyond being an amazing train-wreck of a thread, there's a great difference between being interpreting religion in a fundamental, literalist perspective and being religious while following it more in an interpretive manner.

    Granted, I'm biased toward the latter but even then, not all fundamentalists (in this case, Christian) necessarily believe in literal interpretation of scripture, rather they essentially follow the fundamentals of their faith and base most of their relationship to G-d on how S/He's portrayed in the New Testament while remaining informed of their perception of the previous (Old) covenant/Testament.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 12:16 AM GMT
    FlyingSpaghettiMonster.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 12:18 AM GMT
    Die religious thread, die!
    feature-ghostbusters.jpg
  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Jan 07, 2010 12:18 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidFlyingSpaghettiMonster.png


    Yeeearrghh! My belief is no match for ye Flying Spaghetti Monster.
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Jan 07, 2010 12:39 AM GMT
    I truely believe in FSM, so don't mock me.

    Humans created god, not the other way round. To beleive the false gods is an insult to the wonders of nature.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 12:42 AM GMT
    Ji5PH.jpg

    Religion breeds intelligence.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 12:51 AM GMT
    I believe trackboi is cute and hot. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 1:07 AM GMT
    knowledge and believe might be very different, but we utilize both all the time.

    you "know" you are born by a woman and have a father. you were even there during your birth. but can you proof they are your real parents? can't they fake the birth paper? can't the grandparents faking the stories too? have you proof it to "know" they are your parents or you just "believe" they are your parents? Cause your family system is just that.... a fact-less belief?

    proof is not in what you "know", but in your "believe". you never understand how the pills you take works, but you "believe" in them and take them by faith. you might not understand even half the science and physics and biology, but you "believe" in them anyway even without looking into them.

    a chinese story about a caged tiger where shipped into town one day. when the tiger roar, many ran away despite its a caged tiger. but those who run 50 steps laugh at those who run 100 steps at how cowardly they were. we exercise "faith" and "believe" all the time. can you say you don't use any faith at all?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2010 1:07 AM GMT
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    Religion breeds intelligence.


    HAHA i LOVE this, stupid religious zealots!!
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    Jan 07, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    chaos444 said
    reppaT saidJi5PH.jpg

    HAHA i LOVE this, stupid religious zealots!!


    hmmmmmmmmm?icon_rolleyes.gif