Prop. 8 trial: Did animosity drive California's gay marriage ban?

  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Jan 14, 2010 5:41 PM GMT

    Prop. 8 trial: Did animosity drive California's gay marriage ban?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0113/Prop.-8-trial-Did-animosity-drive-California-s-gay-marriage-ban
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    Jan 14, 2010 8:30 PM GMT
    "Lawyers for Project Marriage.com said Mr. Tam's efforts were not officially sanctioned by the Prop. 8 campaign, and the group did not have anything to do with Tam’s writings. Tam is expected to testify further later in the week."

    Uh huh, easy to say now. Disassociate yourselves from that ass after your organization gets its way. Is this an example of how groups such as Traditional Family Coalition and ProtectMarriage.com were able to sway voters? Pricks.
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    Jan 14, 2010 9:00 PM GMT
    It amazes me, how the buck passers. People want to put the blame somewhere other than for their own actions, like complacency. I well recall people already starting to party in CA, before the vote was out, because in their mind they had won. I tried to tell them tread with caution, it may not come to pass, I was subjected to abuse, for being a party popper, and when it come to pass, I'm sure it was these very same people who went rampaging in the streets, in protest, then fob off their actions with, well we had to vent.

    I'm sure these are the very same people that if they won, would be telling to losers. The people have decided accept it, and get over it,yet it's not what their actions are doing.

    Also suggesting that the vote was persuaded, by the right wing organisations, takes away the fact people of CA are independent thinking people, and removing the blame from the losers.

    Non of this is not to say I was not saddened by what was to come to pass in CA, but people need to stand up to the plate and take responsibility for their actions, and stop passing all the blame on right wing organisations.

    It could be worse, you could of and may still end up with what the activist down here got for the homosexual and lesbians of Oz. They have been burdened with, de facto marriage. Where, only the privileged homosexuals and lesbians will be able to afford to co inhabit, and I'm blessed to be in one of those relationships, because down here if you are gay and on government assistance, you can't afford to live with a man who has a job, unless he is willing too support you too, because if you do the government "now" will take away your benefits and leave you with nothing.
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    Jan 14, 2010 9:08 PM GMT
    #1 Thanks for posting!
    #2 I believe if people had to vote on issues in person, where their votes were recorded, that things would be totally different. People only want rights and fairness for themselves, not for others, however, I believe that if people had to have the balls to stand up for what they vote for, things would be totally different! I am so sick of what is politically correct, because it is all a facade, simply a facade.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    Shouldn't this bring the instant downfall of the proponents of prop 8?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

    The bases of their argument is focused on religion.
    If anything it should be the one thing they do not mention as part of their motivation for passing such a law.
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    Jan 14, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    ....and picking on California was a bad idea.
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    Jan 14, 2010 10:17 PM GMT
    Pattison saidIt amazes me, how the buck passers. People want to put the blame somewhere other than for their own actions, like complacency. I well recall people already starting to party in CA, before the vote was out, because in their mind they had won. I tried to tell them tread with caution, it may not come to pass, I was subjected to abuse, for being a party popper, and when it come to pass, I'm sure it was these very same people who went rampaging in the streets, in protest, then fob off their actions with, well we had to vent.

    Pattison, you are not a California resident, you are not even a US citizen. Sticking your ignorant nose in US affairs is not only unwelcome, but the height of bad manners. Fortunately your fellow Australians, whom I admire, have more class in this regard than you ever will.

    You might learn a lesson from other RJ members from around the world, who keep silent about Australian politics & issues. Until such time as you acquire US citizenship, and/or some advanced degree in US & world history & politics, you would do well to keep your uninformed & erroneous notions about the US to yourself.

    You never say anything intelligent or accurate about my country, just critical pronouncements with no basis in reality. Unfounded opinion you have in abundance, but of knowledgeable insights you have none. I do wonder why you obsess on us and trash the US so routinely; do you suffer from some kind of national penis envy?
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    Jan 15, 2010 12:38 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    Pattison saidIt amazes me, how the buck passers. People want to put the blame somewhere other than for their own actions, like complacency. I well recall people already starting to party in CA, before the vote was out, because in their mind they had won. I tried to tell them tread with caution, it may not come to pass, I was subjected to abuse, for being a party popper, and when it come to pass, I'm sure it was these very same people who went rampaging in the streets, in protest, then fob off their actions with, well we had to vent.

    Pattison, you are not a California resident, you are not even a US citizen. Sticking your ignorant nose in US affairs is not only unwelcome, but the height of bad manners. Fortunately your fellow Australians, whom I admire, have more class in this regard than you ever will.

    You might learn a lesson from other RJ members from around the world, who keep silent about Australian politics & issues. Until such time as you acquire US citizenship, and/or some advanced degree in US & world history & politics, you would do well to keep your uninformed & erroneous notions about the US to yourself.

    You never say anything intelligent or accurate about my country, just critical pronouncements with no basis in reality. Unfounded opinion you have in abundance, but of knowledgeable insights you have none. I do wonder why you obsess on us and trash the US so routinely; do you suffer from some kind of national penis envy?


    quite a few aussies do! one of the reason i had to dump my ex from adelaide!
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Jan 19, 2010 9:49 AM GMT



    Gay marriage could lead to legal sex with children, says activist


    http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/historian-testifies-that-calif-campaign-to-ban-gay-marriage-played-on-anti-gay-stereotypes-81299632.html
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Jan 21, 2010 2:53 AM GMT



    Prop. 8 opponents seek to show link between religion, anti-gay discrimination


    "Challengers of California's ban on same-sex marriage are trying to show at trial today that discrimination against gays and lesbians is rooted in religion and that churches have contributed to anti-gay violence."


    "Attorneys challenging Proposition 8 also presented videotaped testimony from two experts on religion who had been retained by the measure's defenders. They have since withdrawn from the case.

    The experts agreed under questioning that gays and lesbians have experienced discrimination and that some religions have contributed to that discrimination. They also acknowledged that religion has been used to justify discrimination against African Americans and women. "

    See tapes here:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/797304

    "Challengers of the Proposition 8 presented documents this afternoon that the Catholic and Mormon churches were closely tied to the campaign to pass the measure."

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/prop-8-opponents-seek-to-show-link-between-religion-anti-gay-discrimination.html


    "As Segura testified, lawyers for same-sex couples also triggered sparks by introducing documents revealing the active involvement of churches in the Prop. 8 campaign. Among other things, one e-mail from a Roman Catholic official praised the collaboration with the Mormon Church in getting Proposition 8 passed. Other documents discussed the Mormon Church's substantial role in the campaign.

    Segura called such direct church involvement against one group unprecedented."

    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14233026?nclick_check=1

  • FloridaGuy71

    Posts: 93

    Jan 21, 2010 2:57 AM GMT
    Follow all details of the trial here (with live blogging during the proceedings):

    http://prop8trialtracker.com/


    I have been glued to this...
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    Jan 21, 2010 3:06 AM GMT
    metta8 said
    Prop. 8 trial: Did animosity drive California's gay marriage ban?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0113/Prop.-8-trial-Did-animosity-drive-California-s-gay-marriage-ban
    Duh icon_lol.gif

    These points being brought up are all the reasons that this measure should have never happened. It all boils down to religious tyranny and bigotry. It should be enough reason to torpedo any anti-gay law.

    Nevertheless, I know there is a risk that some conservative minded judges and juries can be so tied to their religious belief, the principles of the constitution will take a back seat.

    Whatever happens, I will be glad we stood our ground and that the hateful lies are exposed.
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Jan 29, 2010 6:35 PM GMT
    Perry Trial Press Conference - 1/27/10


  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 29, 2010 8:41 PM GMT
    Exactly why civil rights measures should never be put up for a vote

    When segregation was stopped in the South ..... do you think that a referendum would have put an end to the Jim Crowe Laws ....... ???

    Segregation in Schools

    Women in the Military

    Inter racial Marriage?

    None of these things would have been corrected by voters

    Another reason why if You are Gay you should never vote for a republican