Does it seem like masculine gay guys are always 30+?

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    Jan 16, 2010 2:26 AM GMT
    Does it seem the hottest, manliest, bear-iest guys are all 35+ and only recently out of the closet? I'm not opposed to meaningless, hot, empty sex -- I just wrote a post in another forum defending the hookup -- but I'll admit I'm interested in a stable relationship. But it seems on RJ and in real life (at least in Boise), there's no traditionally masculine gays anywhere near my age.

    Some of the hottest profiles I've seen on this site are men who were married (to women) for years and only recently came out, and are looking for a LTR with someone around 40. The only non-twink gay bar in Boise is pretty much exclusively older men.

    Does anybody else have this problem?

    On a semi-related note, I seem to be a drag queen magnet. I was in a straight bar in a small town with coworkers (I was there on business), and even there I managed to attract drag queens. Pride rallies, bars, everywhere I go I attract a posse of drag queens. What the hell?
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    Jan 16, 2010 12:12 PM GMT
    Well I've never had a wife, as I'm a pure homosexual. but in a way the guys that had a wife, are the kind of guys I used as role models when I first really come into contact with the gay community, but they are also the kind of guys I use as role models i the straight world too, as it's the way I wonted to grow up. But being a lad off the land, and a bloke who was also a lumber jack, helped too. But the funny things is, drag Queens are attracted to me too, and the last time I was in a gay club was with co-workers, for my B'day, I I was dragged up on stage by drag queens, and they would not leave me alone, and the co-workers still piss themselves about it too.

    I once hoped I'de meet a guy with a kid, or two, and we would settle down together, but thats not what was in the stars for me. My soul mate was also a pure homosexual, and a tall blond manly Russian too.
  • MercuryMax

    Posts: 713

    Jan 16, 2010 12:34 PM GMT
    I'd like to think I'm relatively masculine, I came oout when I was 18 and then came out in the military when I was like 21, and i'm no girly man. I'm only 25 too....

    but everyone has a different perspecitve. Maybe you just like hairy guys or bears lol
  • Ironman4U

    Posts: 738

    Jan 16, 2010 12:36 PM GMT
    I was married...and I'm definitely 40 + (52 actually) and I find that the hottest guys are often the 40+ guys that have been married as well. My perspective is that guys can get much better with age if they take care of themselves physically. It's like they have had time to marinate in their sexuality, their confidence and their life experiences...making them much more attractive...way beyond the physical.

    Guys who have been married before also tend to be on the masculine side since they're not on the extreme on the gay spectrum. They're identity was formed when they lived and breathed and very straight life. They are who they are and were not as influenced by the stereotype of the gay world. In other words, they don't go around saying...."you go girl!"
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    Jan 16, 2010 1:06 PM GMT
    I think the drag queens see that you are new to the scene and are just trying to befriend you. That could be a good thing. Most of them know everyone in the scene. Use their connections to work for you. As for myself I'm pretty much gay. I'm done with trying to pass for straight. I still have straight friends who accept me. As for butch guys in their 20 they are out there. Just ask a guy if he knows how to change a tire. Lol


    Another thing just stop wasting your time looking and just have fun!

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    Jan 16, 2010 1:34 PM GMT
    sexyactionnick said...On a semi-related note, I seem to be a drag queen magnet. I was in a straight bar in a small town with coworkers (I was there on business), and even there I managed to attract drag queens. Pride rallies, bars, everywhere I go I attract a posse of drag queens. What the hell?

    It could be an affirmation that you project the masculinity of which you write. Contrary to myth, not all drag queens flock to other queens. Indeed, the feminine image that they are trying to create for themselves can be enhanced when it's contrasted against its manly opposite.

    In a slightly related example, I recall being told many years ago a theory why men all wear the same formal black evening clothes. It's to better showcase their female companions, so that all eyes are drawn to the ladies, in their lovely gowns & jewels.

    I was told that men provide a "setting" for them, and so must never outshine them, never draw attention away. And by appearing strong & masculine, make the woman look more delicate, beautiful and ladylike. Which was fine with me, since gay or not, I think a man's public attire should always be understated for its own sake.

    BTW, I've had many drag queen friends over the years, used to run drag shows, even dabbled a little doing drag myself. An interesting niche in the gay world, with lots of history & tradition, and I can be both a fan and a critic of queens.
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    Jan 16, 2010 2:47 PM GMT
    Why are drag queens hanging out at a str8 bar?
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    Jan 16, 2010 3:02 PM GMT
    Alas, MercuryMax, one is not a trend. It's a very attractive statistical blip.

    Beaux? Because I give off drag-queen attracting pheromones, and they appear from the shadows. (All right, it was Halloween, I left that part out of the story. Still though, small town.)

    I don't think I'm trying to pass for straight. I feel like a...dude. Who has interests varying from masculine to feminine, but generally is dude-ish. And would like to date another dude. I want to hang out with a boyfriend like I do with all my straight male friends -- play video games, watch movies, impulsively begin large construction projects and lose interest a few hours later -- just followed by sex. (I think I'm going to incorporate that into my profile now.)

    All of the men I've dated have either been kind of feminine or just hard to categorize. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I wonder where all the future's hottest guys are right now? Why are there no 20-esque bears? What is it about the bear that takes so long to gestate?
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    Jan 16, 2010 3:06 PM GMT
    Men who come out later in life tend to initially do the over-compensating, passing for straight bit, as much out of anxiety and fear, but then they all inevtiably go through that deferred adolesence and then all Hell breaks loose.

    It's not uncommon to see guys come out and immediately take a partner, almost as a hostage, for security while they explore the gay world and then eventually break out in a big way (and the transitional partner gets lost in the dust...)

    Others come out flying but the adolescent stage can't be denied. It's cute and annoying in a twenty-something, but creepy and disturbing in a forty or fifty year old. Luckily for many, it doesn't last long, particularly if they don't try to compensate for those "lost years."
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jan 16, 2010 4:17 PM GMT
    This so called "masculine" guy is just an awful idea. Masculinity is a relative idea, one which too many gay men steep in stereotypes.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 16, 2010 4:23 PM GMT
    There is nothing absolutely disgusting about the "masculine man" idea. It is just a personal preference for many of us gay guys. We need to state the masculine requirement in order to keep away all the femmes, drag queens, and drug addicts. I am a masculine gay man and I prefer to hang around with masculine gay men. Is that asking too much?
  • calibro

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    Jan 16, 2010 4:25 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThere is nothing absolutely disgusting about the "masculine man" idea. It is just a personal preference for many of us gay guys. We need to state the masculine requirement in order to keep away all the femmes, drag queens, and drug addicts. I am a masculine gay man and I prefer to hang around with masculine gay men. Is that asking too much?


    are you really equating "non-masculine" men as feminine, drug addicts, and drag queens?
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    Jan 16, 2010 4:25 PM GMT
    Over 30 more masculine?? I don't think so! What I have experienced is that they MAY appear to be BUT it's all a facade and it drives me NUTS!!!

    Personally, I came out when I was 26/27 and I'm glad I waited. And in my past I have had 3 guys stop seeing me because they all claimed I was TOO "straight acting/masculine" for them! LAME! I don't believe in the term "straight acting" nor do I believe that masculinity is something work to attain. Either you're a on the more "gruff" side of the spectrum or you're more on the "softer" side of the spectrum HOWEVER that goes for Heterosexual men as well, not JUST us Homosexuals!


    PS.... Clowns AND Drag Queens freak me the FUCK out!!!!
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    Jan 16, 2010 4:25 PM GMT
    cuz most of the time they have goatees or beards
  • WILDCARD73

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    Jan 16, 2010 4:27 PM GMT
    the guys who are coming out now adays got it easier, as society is not as harsh on them as it was 5, 10, 15 years ago
    so they would be more comfortable with their sexuality and being gay, they dont need to act as if they were straight

    there is nothing wrong with that............
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    Jan 16, 2010 4:30 PM GMT
    sexyactionnick said But I wonder where all the future's hottest guys are right now? Why are there no 20-esque bears?


    They're face down in some girl's snatch. But just hang on. They'll be ready for full time dick by their early 30's.
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    Jan 16, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    calibro saidThis so called "masculine" guy is just an awful idea. Masculinity is a relative idea, one which too many gay men steep in stereotypes.


    Masculinity is definitely relative.....& I don't know why someone had to point that out.....it's like one of those truisms that's so obvious that nobody ever says it.
    There's so many great guys, each with awesome qualities and sexuality that go far beyond relative masculinity. It's probable that I missed meeting some terrific men because of this limitation. A few years ago I realized that I was worried about how "it" looked in public icon_lol.gif - The fact that I was passing for straight (haha - was I??) and being seen with guys who weren't masculine - & I said "fuck this shit" and got to know some great men in the process.
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    Jan 16, 2010 4:57 PM GMT
    sexyactionnick saidAlas, MercuryMax, one is not a trend. It's a very attractive statistical blip.

    Beaux? Because I give off drag-queen attracting pheromones, and they appear from the shadows. (All right, it was Halloween, I left that part out of the story. Still though, small town.)

    I don't think I'm trying to pass for straight. I feel like a...dude. Who has interests varying from masculine to feminine, but generally is dude-ish. And would like to date another dude. I want to hang out with a boyfriend like I do with all my straight male friends -- play video games, watch movies, impulsively begin large construction projects and lose interest a few hours later -- just followed by sex. (I think I'm going to incorporate that into my profile now.)

    All of the men I've dated have either been kind of feminine or just hard to categorize. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I wonder where all the future's hottest guys are right now? Why are there no 20-esque bears? What is it about the bear that takes so long to gestate?


    I think your location might have something to do with it. I'm not sure how large Boise is, but I had these same sort of worries / feelings when I lived in my hometown of Kalamazoo, MI. There were just not a large variety of younger men in my town--in fact, there was a dearth of gay men in their mid/late 20's and 30s, and my friend and I noted that most of the more "masculine" men, who were more interested in business careers, moved for grad school or bigger cities.

    It wasn't until I moved to Chicago that I found a lot more of these masculine men. Of course, there are plenty of the more effeminate types--I feel the ratio is the same as before, but the sample size is much larger.

    There are 20ish year old bears, but I think that's it less common. One thing that bears are great at is being entirely comfortable with themselves and accepting of who they truly are, and I think that's a skill most gay men have trouble with in their 20s.

    Though the impulsive construction projects -- is that an Idaho thing? icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 16, 2010 5:33 PM GMT
    So I walked into Lambda Rising in DuPont area of DC, I talked to the workers and asked for a book they recommended and they kept putting weird ones in front of me that I said did not appeal. Eventually they labeled me "hyper-masculine" and put this book called Special Forces in front of me and it is entirely military.

    I have never served and I doubt I ever would but I do have military friends and ahem..romance. As a weight lifter and a guy constantly surrounded by the straight guy world and whatnot I do NOT find myself saying "hon" or "girl" or letting my fashion become too adventurous. I like simple and refined clothing not much contemporary or flashy gay and the two gay shirts I do have....I wear maybe once a year and with a night shadow face and open hairy chest...I go for the manly sexy look instead of the "I am here, and I am proud to be queer" look. You could say I like to replicate the Randy Blue looking dudes and truth be told, those are the ones I seem to attract!

    Of course I have my gay-er moments like being particular about clothing, food, and details in general. I know what I like. I am also not trying to be hyper-masculine even if I am classified as such in the gay community, the straight crowd gives me the eccentric label because I do not try to put on the identity of the nod of the head, the sharing of beers without much conversation means we are best buds, the only listening to rock or country, the driving a truck, wearing boots, and not owning shirts that would make a gal swoon or guy...wink.

    I do not have much against femmy guys, I would go on a dinner date with one just to experience their balzy bravery of being so loud and hardcore...but I doubt I could continue being interested beyond that. One 18 year old I did go on an ice cream and walk and talk date called himself masculine but gosh he wouldn't stop talking like a girl going on and on about everything personal in his life and just was not mature in his sexuality and self. So been there and bored by that, but you never know what kind of surprises will occur. Maybe you will be attracted to a femish guy who just captures your mind and hopefully has some level of fitness.
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    Jan 16, 2010 5:53 PM GMT
    So to summarize: believe in yourself, be open-minded, looks can be deceiving, blah blah. I'm pretty sure this was a thread about muscular men, not smoking weed and writing war protest songs. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Yeah, I get it, be open-minded and you can meet some great men. We can officially stop posting that now.
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    Jan 16, 2010 6:02 PM GMT
    The lady doth protest too much.
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    Jan 16, 2010 6:03 PM GMT
    I've often wondered how much of this is the theory that you are (at least partially) a product of your upbringing and surroundings. It's human nature to conform — that's why you pick up accents, for example. And so the guys who lived in a more straight lifestyle surrounded themselves with buddies who behaved and spoke in certain ways and imitated those behaviors, whether they know they are doing it or not. Guys who come out at a very young age are not as likely to adapt these behaviors, maybe even in some cases adapt more feminine behaviors because of their activities, their friends, etc.

    It goes without saying there are exceptions. Maybe I'm not even totally right about this, I'm not an expert. But it's an interesting topic and this has been my theory.

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    Jan 16, 2010 6:19 PM GMT
    sexyactionnick saidI don't think I'm trying to pass for straight. I feel like a...dude. Who has interests varying from masculine to feminine, but generally is dude-ish. And would like to date another dude. I want to hang out with a boyfriend like I do with all my straight male friends -- play video games, watch movies, impulsively begin large construction projects and lose interest a few hours later -- just followed by sex. (I think I'm going to incorporate that into my profile now.)

    All of the men I've dated have either been kind of feminine or just hard to categorize. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I wonder where all the future's hottest guys are right now? Why are there no 20-esque bears? What is it about the bear that takes so long to gestate?

    To the first part: Good god yes. I am in complete agreement with you in what you describe you are looking for.
    As for why most gay guys are actively making themselves extremely effeminate, I think it's something they tend to do in order to fit in. Most just want to be accepted and when they meet other gay effeminate men, they try and become that to an extreme point.
    I think it's a maturation thing so unfortunately that's why the masculine gay men are older.
    (...damnit...)
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    Jan 16, 2010 6:27 PM GMT
    Muninn said
    sexyactionnick saidI
    As for why most gay guys are actively making themselves extremely effeminate, I think it's something they tend to do in order to fit in. Most just want to be accepted and when they meet other gay effeminate men, they try and become that to an extreme point.
    (...damnit...)


    Exactly. Another poster brought this point up, and people got up in arms. I do feel like some guys push it to the extreme to be the loudest, funniest, center of attention.
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    Jan 16, 2010 6:36 PM GMT
    djdorchester saidI've often wondered how much of this is the theory that you are (at least partially) a product of your upbringing and surroundings. It's human nature to conform — that's why you pick up accents, for example. And so the guys who lived in a more straight lifestyle surrounded themselves with buddies who behaved and spoke in certain ways and imitated those behaviors, whether they know they are doing it or not. Guys who come out at a very young age are not as likely to adapt these behaviors, maybe even in some cases adapt more feminine behaviors because of their activities, their friends, etc.

    It goes without saying there are exceptions. Maybe I'm not even totally right about this, I'm not an expert. But it's an interesting topic and this has been my theory.



    You're spot on. We are influenced by our social milieu and we take on it's value, attitudes and behaviors whether class, ethnic, or sexual identity regardless of how well identified or comfortable we are with it all.

    Having said that, I've observed and know many effeminate guys and totally straight-acting guys and in most cases, they can't really be anything else but what they are. (When I see uncomfortable, straight-acting/identifying guys in a high queer environment, I think that the gods have a wicked sense of humor.) But I do think men modify their behavior and loosen up as they become more identified with gayness. But what-the-hell, I come from the generation that saw gay-identity as a political and liberating statement. What the F good is it being gay, if you can't be free to follow your heart and desires? What can guys be afraid of? That's someone may call them a fag?