Prop 8 trial turns its attention to children.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2010 5:58 AM GMT
    As much as I hate the Los Angeles Times:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-prop8-trial16-2010jan16,0,4135684.story?track=rss

    Reporting from San Francisco - The well-being of children reared by same-sex couples dominated the federal trial over Proposition 8 on Friday as the measure's proponents attacked studies that showed children of lesbians and gays fare well.

    Lawyers for two gay couples challenging Proposition 8's ban on same-sex marriage called to the stand Michael Lamb, head of Cambridge University's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.

    Lamb reviewed about 100 studies that compared children of gay families to those reared by heterosexual couples.

    "The evidence makes clear that having a gay and lesbian parent does not make children more likely to be maladjusted," Lamb testified.

    He also said children reared by gays weren't more likely to become gay than other children, but were more likely to be teased about their families by other children. Children of same-sex couples also have fewer sexual stereotypes, such as viewing a nurse as female and a doctor as male, Lamb testified.

    An attorney for the Proposition 8 campaign cross-examined Lamb for hours, questioning the methodologies of some studies and portraying him as a "committed liberal."

    Attorney David H. Thompson said that many of the studies Lamb read focused on lesbian parents, not gay men, and cited a study that found children of gays fared worse than those of heterosexuals. Lamb called that study "a complete outlier from the rest of the research" and one whose authors had admitted was faulty.

    Thompson said 2000 census data showed that 33% of lesbian households and 22% of gay male households were raising children.

    In other testimony, Helen Zia, 57, a lesbian writer, told the court that marrying her partner transformed the way their families viewed them.

    Zia said she knew as a girl that she never wished to marry a man, suspected she was gay in college and was in her 30s when she had her first relationship with a woman.

    She recalled her "lesbian trial" when she was working with other community organizers in Asian and African American communities to end job discrimination. She said her co-workers told her their communities disapproved of homosexuals and asked her if she was a lesbian. Zia, then 23, told them she was not.

    "I had stepped in the closet and slammed the door shut," she said. She later burned years of diaries in which she had written of her attraction to women.

    She said she eventually fell in love with Lia Shigemura and quit a high-powered job to move across the country to be with her. Before marrying, they were domestic partners. Zia said her domestic partnership with Shigemura was nothing like marriage. Marriage united the families of both women and gave their relationship a name that others understood, she said.

    After marrying, she recalled, her teenage niece told Shigemura, "Auntie Lia, now you're my real auntie."

    A Proposition 8 lawyer suggested Zia was a gay activist and noted she had once criticized marriage as "patriarchal."

    "Proposition 8"
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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2010 8:28 AM GMT
    Marriage IS patriarchal. Durr.
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    Jan 17, 2010 5:26 PM GMT
    I would love to be married, and raise a child. I think the majority of people I interact with on a daily basis would be surprised if it actually happened... but I also think they would be -pleasantly- surprised. And completely accepting.

    At this point I'll be marrying my dog sooner than another man.
  • camfer

    Posts: 892

    Jan 17, 2010 6:20 PM GMT
    I've been following the trial on this blog:

    http://prop8trialtracker.com/
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Jan 17, 2010 9:50 PM GMT
    What is the point of that kind of argument though? I mean in regard to anti-gay marriage people.

    Don't they realize the points they argue against gay marriage in most all cases equally apply to things like domestic partnerships or civil unions?

    It's not like gay families would only exist if gay marriage existed. So if gay marriage is bad for families then so must be domestic partnerships and civil unions, right?

    At the same time, arguing for how important marriage is (by anti-gay people), they are practically making the argument about why it's so important then that gay people must have it as well - unless they are saying gay people and their families are not important enough for marriage.

    Either way they still are shooting themselves in the foot.


    Honestly, it's really hard not to see so many problems in their arguments because the ultimate reasons for their anti-gay marriage sentiment is not for rational reasons but just angst against homosexuality. They don't want homosexuality to be treated with that kind of legitimacy. They just don't like it - that's their real argument.
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    Jan 17, 2010 10:01 PM GMT
    KentuckyTuss said
    At this point I'll be marrying my dog sooner than another man.


    Don't say things like that. The right has constantly been saying that legalizing marriage between same sex partners will pave the way for such perversions.

    post_cartoon.jpg
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    Jan 17, 2010 10:38 PM GMT
    EGOMANIAC saidAs much as I hate the Los Angeles Times:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-prop8-trial16-2010jan16,0,4135684.story?track=rss

    Reporting from San Francisco - The well-being of children reared by same-sex couples dominated the federal trial over Proposition 8 on Friday as the measure's proponents attacked studies that showed children of lesbians and gays fare well.

    Lawyers for two gay couples challenging Proposition 8's ban on same-sex marriage called to the stand Michael Lamb, head of Cambridge University's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.

    Lamb reviewed about 100 studies that compared children of gay families to those reared by heterosexual couples.

    "The evidence makes clear that having a gay and lesbian parent does not make children more likely to be maladjusted," Lamb testified.

    He also said children reared by gays weren't more likely to become gay than other children, but were more likely to be teased about their families by other children. Children of same-sex couples also have fewer sexual stereotypes, such as viewing a nurse as female and a doctor as male, Lamb testified.

    An attorney for the Proposition 8 campaign cross-examined Lamb for hours, questioning the methodologies of some studies and portraying him as a "committed liberal."

    Attorney David H. Thompson said that many of the studies Lamb read focused on lesbian parents, not gay men, and cited a study that found children of gays fared worse than those of heterosexuals. Lamb called that study "a complete outlier from the rest of the research" and one whose authors had admitted was faulty.

    Thompson said 2000 census data showed that 33% of lesbian households and 22% of gay male households were raising children.

    In other testimony, Helen Zia, 57, a lesbian writer, told the court that marrying her partner transformed the way their families viewed them.

    Zia said she knew as a girl that she never wished to marry a man, suspected she was gay in college and was in her 30s when she had her first relationship with a woman.

    She recalled her "lesbian trial" when she was working with other community organizers in Asian and African American communities to end job discrimination. She said her co-workers told her their communities disapproved of homosexuals and asked her if she was a lesbian. Zia, then 23, told them she was not.

    "I had stepped in the closet and slammed the door shut," she said. She later burned years of diaries in which she had written of her attraction to women.

    She said she eventually fell in love with Lia Shigemura and quit a high-powered job to move across the country to be with her. Before marrying, they were domestic partners. Zia said her domestic partnership with Shigemura was nothing like marriage. Marriage united the families of both women and gave their relationship a name that others understood, she said.

    After marrying, she recalled, her teenage niece told Shigemura, "Auntie Lia, now you're my real auntie."

    A Proposition 8 lawyer suggested Zia was a gay activist and noted she had once criticized marriage as "patriarchal."

    "Proposition 8"
    Is on Yahoo's most searched list: #3


    This is the part that bothers me is the mocking and teasing that children raised by gay couples will receive. I think a lot of kids may have mental health problems from the teasing and mocking they will get and everyone will just think they are gay, too, even though they may not be.
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    Jan 17, 2010 11:11 PM GMT
    Sedative saidMarriage IS patriarchal. Durr.


    Not unless the woman is subservient and understands her place... no, then it's a partnership honoured by The Lord.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2010 11:13 PM GMT
    http://www.apa.org/pubs/books/4318061.aspx

    For those who are interested...


    Lesbian and Gay Parents and Their Children: Research on the Family Life Cycle
    By Abbie E. Goldberg, PhD
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 20, 2010 4:08 AM GMT
    They're so desperate that they're still beating this dead horse: that gay people are child molesters and will teach their children to be gay, even though there is overwhelming scientific evidence that disproves this ridiculousness.