Why can't a gay man just be gay?

  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Jan 20, 2010 12:33 AM GMT
    After reading several posts, profiles & comments; talking to several friends and acquaintences, I realized that a lot of gay men really hate gay acting men. It sounds simple enough, but I'm flabbergasted by the amount of guys screaming "Masculine only" to any future friends and suitors. Want a bottom, you better be masculine. Want a top, you better be masculine. Want a kayaking buddy, you better be masuline. Need help on your next killing spree, you better be masculine.

    It boggles the mind how so many guys make that the number one priority, as if a gay man can only be gay in bed. I wonder how many porns have these guys watched? How many gay themed movies (starring straight actors even when they're produced or directed by gay men) have they seen showing the straightest of the straight acting gay male as the lead? I get wanting what you want, but at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay?

    After moving to Chicago and finally experiencing the gay community, I've met many masculine guys (I loathe the term straight acting). The funny part is that no matter how maculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer. Using the female pronouns, "What's she doing?" or dropping "girl" all the time in a sentence. It doesn't bother me, but obviously is an issue many have in regards to expressing or accepting less than traditional masculine traits. Why do you think that is? If you are a person like that, has your personal history made you this way or is it something you just like?


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    Jan 20, 2010 12:45 AM GMT
    PipHop saidAfter reading several posts, profiles & comments; talking to several friends and acquaintences, I realized that a lot of gay men really hate gay acting men. It sounds simple enough, but I'm flabbergasted by the amount of guys screaming "Masculine only" to any future friends and suitors. Want a bottom, you better be masculine. Want a top, you better be masculine. Want a kayaking buddy, you better be masuline. Need help on your next killing spree, you better be masculine.

    It boggles the mind how so many guys make that the number one priority, as if a gay man can only be gay in bed. I wonder how many porns have these guys watched? How many gay themed movies (starring straight actors even when they're produced or directed by gay men) have they seen showing the straightest of the straight acting gay male as the lead? I get wanting what you want, but at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay?

    After moving to Chicago and finally experiencing the gay community, I've met many masculine guys (I loathe the term straight acting). The funny part is that no matter how maculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer. Using the female pronouns, "What's she doing?" or dropping "girl" all the time in a sentence. It doesn't bother me, but obviously is an issue many have in regards to expressing or accepting less than traditional masculine traits. Why do you think that is? If you are a person like that, has your personal history made you this way or is it something you just like?




    wait a minute...first you say..."I realized that a lot of gay men hate gay acting men"....um I dont get this. Since when is there a norm to "acting gay". Are you saying that gay means you are feminine and flame out and that being masculine is hiding something?

    Then you say "at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay". No you dont mean gay...you mean feminine. Gay does not equal feminine...where did you get that definition from. There are gays who are masculine and feminine and all in between. To be gay you dont have to flame out to Cher or Beyonce.


    Then you go onto say...."the funny part is that no matter how masculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer". Again I dont understand this...what is gayer...do you mean they become more feminine? Sorry everybody isnt all like this.Being gay is about my sexual preference. I love dick, ass, balls, I love men.

    When are people going to realize that some gay men are masculine just because they are and they have no interest in feminine gay guys who have alot of those flameout traits. And its not selfloathing to be masculine and to want to hang around other masculine guys. I would have no interest in hanging out with a feminine straight guy who was into things I dont like.
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    Jan 20, 2010 12:49 AM GMT
    The OP has subscribed to the stereotyped version of the gay man. Many on this site are men who like men, not G A Y men. Just guys who are attracted to guys. Its funny how the OP categorizes a gay man as having a purse fall out of his mouth or being flamboyant and not just as an attraction thing.

    Shame OP, Shame. icon_confused.gif
  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Jan 20, 2010 12:56 AM GMT
    I'm probaby not using the best description to paint the picture of what I mean, so thanks for using better language to help me out. I should have said feminine instead of gay. I guess I just don't understand the prejudice (or what I perceive to be) against more feminine acting guys.

    btw, should i change the title or edit the original post to better illustrate what I meant to say?
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Jan 20, 2010 12:59 AM GMT
    I loved reading this. it's true, concerning the word ' gurl, ' and even the term ' werk. ' once you're around that group of guys and gals where you can be yourself; be stupid, be open, be honest ... it doesn't matter if you are the most stoic male on the planet or the most flamboyant ... your friends will have your back regardless.

    hence, the case of the shrimp and the biscuits:

  • DrobUA

    Posts: 1331

    Jan 20, 2010 1:06 AM GMT
    PipHop saidI'm probaby not using the best description to paint the picture of what I mean, so thanks for using better language to help me out. I should have said feminine instead of gay. I guess I just don't understand the prejudice (or what I perceive to be) against more feminine acting guys.

    btw, should i change the title or edit the original post to better illustrate what I meant to say?


    It's because so many are grouped into a stereotype that doesn't fit them. I think many are frustrated..

    On the other hand some of the men you are referring to are completely flamboyant. I saw a profile of a guy I went to high school with, the most effeminate guy I've ever met and sure enough his profile said "masculine only". It's called self discrimination. For more examples of this visit:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/795649#194178_796248_name
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:16 AM GMT
    PipHop said
    It sounds simple enough, but I'm flabbergasted by the amount of guys screaming "Masculine only" to any future friends and suitors.

    I get wanting what you want, but at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay?

    but obviously is an issue many have in regards to expressing or accepting less than traditional masculine traits.




    Let me comment on the 3 things you say above OP (it's hard for people to understand sarcasm when it comes to reading, but I hope you keep up):

    1) You are flabbergasted that members of the gay community like what they like. Hmm... seems like we need a research team of DNA specialists to figure out why this is. Really??

    2) You generalize that all gay men act feminine, or SHOULD. I can't believe that gay men, especially from the other side of the fence, stereotype people anymore. It's like a black person turning to another black person and saying "why the fuck aren't you robbing a store?"

    3) Again you push upon people reading this thread that to be gay, you have to have these less than masculine traits.
    First, let me take you directly to the dictionary and lets see what the definition of "masculine" is: "pertaining to or characteristic of a man or men."
    Well fuck... seems logical, but apparently not.

    I'll let you in on a little secret: I don't know why, but individuals... they seem to be, hmm... well, different! I know right? Shocker. Blows my mind too that different people like different things, think different ways, and act different ways...
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:18 AM GMT
    What is acting gay?

    There's nothing new, about two men being in love or a guy being attracted to other men.

    But how should a man like this behave? There has never been any set behavior for these men to be, so why should there be now?

    Shouldn't he just be himself, and carry himself in the way he always has that is him and not something he is not?

    Just because you like men, does not mean you have to behave a certain way.

    I've got absolutely no problem being in love with a dude, not ashamed of it.. However I just don't associate myself with gay culture.. Its not who I am, I don't relate to it... Everyone is different.
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:19 AM GMT
    I'll take a feminine acting scapegoat....I mean companion for my next killing spree

    I just won't bed one icon_neutral.gif
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    I was very nearly tarred and feathered by some members for this simple post:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/790568/

    I reveal more of my gay self here because I thought there would be camaraderie instead of alienation.

    eh, lesson learned.

    icon_neutral.gif
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    jrs1 saidI loved reading this. it's true, concerning the word ' gurl, ' and even the term ' werk. ' once you're around that group of guys and gals where you can be yourself; be stupid, be open, be honest ... it doesn't matter if you are the most stoic male on the planet or the most flamboyant ... your friends will have your back regardless.

    hence, the case of the shrimp and the biscuits:



    See to me I have nothing in common with the Shrimp and Biscuits guys except we both like cock and ass.

    People gravitate and seek out people who are similar to themselves and have some of the same interests.

    Honestly I wouldnt expect alot of gay guys to be able to put up with my fantasy baseball stuff or my fanactism with my sports teams or my landscaping job getting their hands dirty and thats fine.

    I dont think masculine guys are holding anything back, I guess there are some putting on some kind of act but in general I think most of these guys are that way just because
  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Jan 20, 2010 1:28 AM GMT
    I don't think that every gay man should be or is afraid to be more feminine acting. I do think that some (not all) of the very vocal contingent against those members of the gay community are mirroring their own issues. Some of them come off as gays in 'straight drag' actually.
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:32 AM GMT
    I don't like either extreme - flamboyantly effeminate or hyper-masculine. Both seem artificial to me. I prefer guys who are relaxed and natural. A bit effeminate is fine as long as it's not too out there.
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:41 AM GMT
    I've been discriminated against by fem or queen acting gay guys because I couldn't join in their "she" or "girl" revelry on the flip side of this discussion.

    I remember the hardest thing for me accepting to myself that I was gay was the aversion to acting like my flamboyant uncle (not the best role model).

    It was when I realized I could still be "me" and suck dick that I was ok with the whole thing. icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:42 AM GMT
    freakofnature saidI don't like either extreme - flamboyantly effeminate or hyper-masculine. Both seem artificial to me. I prefer guys who are relaxed and natural. A bit effeminate is fine as long as it's not too out there.


    Right on, man!
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:45 AM GMT
    this is why i like to say... i like a really butch man who is not afraid to where heels.

    i am not attracted to men wearing heels. it does not give me a boner what so ever, but i do like someone who is comfortable enough to be silly and laugh at themselves.
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:47 AM GMT
    [quote]I'll let you in on a little secret: I don't know why, but individuals... they seem to be, hmm... well, different! I know right? Shocker. Blows my mind too that different people like different things, think different ways, and act different ways...
    [/quote]

    The more people I meet, the more I seem to realize that people are basically the same. We all like to think we're beautiful, special individuals -- our mommies told us we were snowflakes -- but then again, it's what we all like to think.
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    Jan 20, 2010 1:57 AM GMT
    PipHop saidAfter reading several posts, profiles & comments; talking to several friends and acquaintences, I realized that a lot of gay men really hate gay acting men. It sounds simple enough, but I'm flabbergasted by the amount of guys screaming "Masculine only" to any future friends and suitors. Want a bottom, you better be masculine. Want a top, you better be masculine. Want a kayaking buddy, you better be masuline. Need help on your next killing spree, you better be masculine.

    It boggles the mind how so many guys make that the number one priority, as if a gay man can only be gay in bed. I wonder how many porns have these guys watched? How many gay themed movies (starring straight actors even when they're produced or directed by gay men) have they seen showing the straightest of the straight acting gay male as the lead? I get wanting what you want, but at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay?

    After moving to Chicago and finally experiencing the gay community, I've met many masculine guys (I loathe the term straight acting). The funny part is that no matter how maculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer. Using the female pronouns, "What's she doing?" or dropping "girl" all the time in a sentence. It doesn't bother me, but obviously is an issue many have in regards to expressing or accepting less than traditional masculine traits. Why do you think that is? If you are a person like that, has your personal history made you this way or is it something you just like?




    Seems to me that you refer alot to the "boystown" boi's ... and not the andersonville men.... how long have you been in chicago? that glittery boystown scene is nastily tainted by all the goings'on up and down north halstead....
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    Jan 20, 2010 2:02 AM GMT
    I consider gay a sexuality and not a personality. I'm just a guy who enjoys the sexual pleasures of another guy.
  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Jan 20, 2010 2:07 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]kaicho said
    Seems to me that you refer alot to the "boystown" boi's ... and not the andersonville men.... how long have you been in chicago? that glittery boystown scene is nastily tainted by all the goings'on up and down north halstead....[/quote]

    I've been here about a year and a half, but I've seen it all over the city. From Evanston to the south side. And one of my best buds lives in Boystown!icon_razz.gif It's just odd to me, the whole "Ugh, he's feminine" reaction. Especially when the guys who say it, then act feminine around select company - and it's not a gag either. I don't get the hostility and indignation towards more feminine men. You don't have to sleep with the guy, be his best friend or whatever; but when a person has that type of visceral reaction, I wonder what brings it about.
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Jan 20, 2010 2:11 AM GMT
    Rujock said
    jrs1 said
    hence, the case of the shrimp and the biscuits:

    People gravitate and seek out people who are similar to themselves and have some of the same interests.

    Honestly I wouldnt expect alot [sic] of gay guys to be able to put up with... landscaping job getting their hands dirty ...


    yes. people do gravitate (e.g., birds of a feather ...) to similar interests.
    but the hands dirty? don't be surprised that even the most effeminate is more than likely to break his back doing work with his hands - whether it be hours upon hours sewing, writing, analyzing cryptography, gardening, rehearsing 'til his appendages bleed, or otherwise.

    I understand what you mean but, honestly, was distracted by certain qualities in your writing. also ... if you're gay and are a sports fanatic, chances are, you're not the only one icon_wink.gif

    I think I am quite fortunate to be male and to be gay. I have not learned this much about the nature of man and woman since a personal introduction to Hegel, Locke, Rousseau, Sartre, and Chuck Palahniuk. being with a guy and having his arms around me is exactly what the following exemplifies - that it may not always work out in the long-run ... but it, certainly, starts out so simple and innocent ... but men loving each other goes together like the chemistry [of] apple and cinnamon ...

    I would not trade the feeling a man's touch brings to me for very little in this world. viva la species homo fabulous ...

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    Jan 20, 2010 2:13 AM GMT
    PipHop said[quote][cite]kaicho said
    Seems to me that you refer alot to the "boystown" boi's ... and not the andersonville men.... how long have you been in chicago? that glittery boystown scene is nastily tainted by all the goings'on up and down north halstead....


    I've been here about a year and a half, but I've seen it all over the city. From Evanston to the south side. And one of my best buds lives in Boystown!icon_razz.gif It's just odd to me, the whole "Ugh, he's feminine" reaction. Especially when the guys who say it, then act feminine around select company - and it's not a gag either. I don't get the hostility and indignation towards more feminine men. You don't have to sleep with the guy, be his best friend or whatever; but when a person has that type of visceral reaction, I wonder what brings it about.[/quote]

    Welcome to the Gym-Fag scene... they gravitate to the gym, get all swole and in shape, then go to the bars or anywhere else and pretend not to be feminine.... THOSE are the ones you're referring to. They often play on the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing line, and draw attention to anything that remotely shows them for what they are.

    Hence the Boystown-Taint... bleh. Gotta hate it. icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 20, 2010 2:20 AM GMT
    I have been a homosexual all my life, and in many ways been paying for it since I was about six, for being molested, and refusing to see any wrong had been done; albeit I see the wrong now.

    I am a homosexual 24/7. I love getting in the bush with me city friends, and then they really see a side of me they don't in the city. Gone are the city clothes, and comfits. I went with a city lade once, and told him we where not taking tents we will make our own, and make our own we did, out of what nature provided us. This was a straight guy too, and I made him look girly; albeit not intentionally.

    I'm just not absorbed with gay culture. You would be lucky now days to find me in a gay pub once a year anymore, and this has been the case for many years. I am not straight acting, I am me. I can be as tough as old boots, and I have the ability to be tender too.

    Just as I can piss people off here for not towing the left wing line. I can piss straight people off, for being so at ease with my sexuality. I'm the kind of homosexual that pissers straight guys off in the locker room, as I don't present as homosexual the minute I walk in the room.
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    Jan 20, 2010 2:22 AM GMT
    Rujock said
    PipHop saidAfter reading several posts, profiles & comments; talking to several friends and acquaintences, I realized that a lot of gay men really hate gay acting men. It sounds simple enough, but I'm flabbergasted by the amount of guys screaming "Masculine only" to any future friends and suitors. Want a bottom, you better be masculine. Want a top, you better be masculine. Want a kayaking buddy, you better be masuline. Need help on your next killing spree, you better be masculine.

    It boggles the mind how so many guys make that the number one priority, as if a gay man can only be gay in bed. I wonder how many porns have these guys watched? How many gay themed movies (starring straight actors even when they're produced or directed by gay men) have they seen showing the straightest of the straight acting gay male as the lead? I get wanting what you want, but at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay?

    After moving to Chicago and finally experiencing the gay community, I've met many masculine guys (I loathe the term straight acting). The funny part is that no matter how maculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer. Using the female pronouns, "What's she doing?" or dropping "girl" all the time in a sentence. It doesn't bother me, but obviously is an issue many have in regards to expressing or accepting less than traditional masculine traits. Why do you think that is? If you are a person like that, has your personal history made you this way or is it something you just like?




    wait a minute...first you say..."I realized that a lot of gay men hate gay acting men"....um I dont get this. Since when is there a norm to "acting gay". Are you saying that gay means you are feminine and flame out and that being masculine is hiding something?

    Then you say "at what point will a guy just let another gay guy be, well, gay". No you dont mean gay...you mean feminine. Gay does not equal feminine...where did you get that definition from. There are gays who are masculine and feminine and all in between. To be gay you dont have to flame out to Cher or Beyonce.


    Then you go onto say...."the funny part is that no matter how masculine they are, once we become good friends, they feel comfortable to be gayer". Again I dont understand this...what is gayer...do you mean they become more feminine? Sorry everybody isnt all like this.Being gay is about my sexual preference. I love dick, ass, balls, I love men.

    When are people going to realize that some gay men are masculine just because they are and they have no interest in feminine gay guys who have alot of those flameout traits. And its not selfloathing to be masculine and to want to hang around other masculine guys. I would have no interest in hanging out with a feminine straight guy who was into things I dont like.


    Truly well said!
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    Jan 20, 2010 2:28 AM GMT
    I recall on one of the rare occasions being in a gay club over the past 20= years, and I walked passed to guys. One said to his friend " shit he is hot!"

    His mates reply was "her everyone's had her!" I almost turned on a dime, and hit the queen in the mouth so hard, I would of been charged; yet it's comments would of been over looked.

    If I am in company with gay people I feel secure with, I still don't start to act all girly, say she, and all that bullshit. If I call you a women, I'm looking for a fight.