Do you think the United States government will divide?

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    Jan 21, 2010 6:41 PM GMT
    I really believe there is going t o be a split not only within the parties themselves, but our very US government. The bickering and fighting is really straining the very fiber of our government and country and I'm not a fortune teller, but in my crystal ball I see a split in our government and country coming. Only time will tell, if this happens. The United States is not united anymore, which is really sad. People have such polar and opposite views and when neither side is ready to give an inch, a split usually happens. Look at the sad state and divisions even within the Christian Church. It's really sad, but as much as some people don't like the Bible, it's very pages are fulfilling before our very eyes. And so I really don't think our country is going to stay united, just as the Christian Church didn' stay united. I think there will be a split in our country with a very liberal group forming a separate government under a whole new constitution, which will forbid the practice of any religion.

    I know I will not become a part of such a government because the pursuit of religious freedom is what brought my great grandparents over here from Germany to settle in Wisconsin. And I want to keep this for myself and my descendants, and for future generations. It is our religious freedom here that is the glory of this nation and I want to preserve that, so that ALL people are allowed to personally believe and not believe as they choose and practice or not practice whatever beliefs they want to without someone telling them that they can not have those beliefs or share those beliefs with others. The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Jan 21, 2010 7:31 PM GMT
    You need to crack open a couple of history books. The U.S. has ALWAYS had divisions. Always. Over everything. But, when push comes to shove, no one unites quite like Americans.

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    Jan 21, 2010 7:50 PM GMT
    TexanMan82 saidYou need to crack open a couple of history books. The U.S. has ALWAYS had divisions. Always. Over everything. But, when push comes to shove, no one unites quite like Americans.



    Divisions, yes, but honestly I have never seen it like it is today with not just disagreements, but vehement hatred. The same thing is happening within my church body and there is going to be a split there, too. Maybe not in the next 5 years, but down the road I can see it coming. I'm not saying the split in the US will happen in my lifetime, but my daughter may see it. Hatred breeds contempt and soon both sides realize they can't keep going like this because it is destroying the country and then there is a split with the minority group being the one that breaks away.
  • metlboy

    Posts: 105

    Jan 21, 2010 8:31 PM GMT
    G_Force said I think there will be a split in our country with a very liberal group forming a separate government under a whole new constitution, which will forbid the practice of any religion.


    I think you might need to add another layer of tinfoil to your hat.
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    Jan 21, 2010 8:35 PM GMT
    TexanMan82 saidYou need to crack open a couple of history books. The U.S. has ALWAYS had divisions. Always. Over everything. But, when push comes to shove, no one unites quite like Americans.



    If you do crack up history books, when things get like this, divisions have always occured. History show this, in both countries, churches, and other organizatons. My own church body broke from fellowship in the mid 1900's and now there is going to be another break. Just when , I don't know. But ,we got 2 opposite groups in our church body and the yelling and screaming that goes on in these church meetings among Christians is unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. It's the reason why I resigned from the ministry. I couldn't take the yelling and screaming anymore for my own sanity. None of this surprises me, though. Because the Bible foretells that this will happen even in the Christian church and the things that it says will happen are happening right in front of my eyes. This is one of the reasons why I beleive in the Scriptures being divinely inspired because it says even people in the Christian church will hate one another with a vehemence and the love of most will grow cold. The Scriptures is like a commentary on my country and church. Sure it makes me sad, but God knew and said these things will happen. I honestly have never seen so much hatred in our country as there is today. It was not like this 30 years ago when I was 19 and got to vote the first time for a US president. I remember the election very well and there was not all this hatred for each other. Debating, yes, but not vehement hatred. Jimmy Carter, the Democratic president from Plains, GA was the incumbent and Republican Ronald Reagan was running against him.

    What follows is quoted right from WIKepedia about the election:

    The debates
    The most important event of the entire 1980 presidential campaign was the second presidential debate, which was held one week to the day before the election (October 2icon_cool.gif. Over the course of two hours, the entire race changed drastically, and what was considered an extremely tight race with the President slightly ahead became a comfortable Republican victory for Reagan. Nothing of that magnitude has happened since in any televised confrontations.

    The League of Women Voters, which had sponsored the 1976 Ford/Carter series, announced that it would do so again for the next cycle in the spring of 1979. However, Carter was not eager to participate. He had repeatedly refused to debate Sen. Edward M. Kennedy during the primary season, and had given ambivalent signals as to his participation in the fall.

    The LWV had announced a schedule of debates similar to 1976, three presidential and one vice presidential. No one had much of a problem with this until it was announced that Rep. John Anderson might be invited to participate along with Carter and Reagan. Carter steadfastly refused to participate with Anderson included, and Reagan refused to debate without him.

    The first debate was moderated by Bill Moyers and took place in Baltimore, Maryland, on September 21. President Carter was nowhere to be found. Anderson, who many thought would handily dispatch the former Governor, could, according to many in the media, manage only a draw. The Illinois congressman, who had been as high as 20% in some polls, and at the time of the debate was over 10%, dropped to about 5% soon after. Anderson failed to substantively engage Reagan, and the two spent a good portion of the debate simply criticizing Carter for refusing to participate.

    As September turned into October, the situation remained essentially the same. Governor Reagan insisted Anderson be allowed to participate, and the President remained steadfastly opposed to this. As the standoff continued, the second round was canceled, as was the vice presidential debate.

    With two weeks to go to the election, the Reagan campaign decided that the best thing to do at that moment was to accede to all of President Carter's demands, and LWV agreed to exclude Congressman Anderson from the final debate, which was rescheduled for October 28 in Cleveland, Ohio.

    Moderated by Howard K. Smith and presented by the League of Women Voters, the presidential debate between President Carter and Governor Reagan ranked among the highest ratings of any television show in the previous decade. Debate topics included the Iranian hostage crisis, and nuclear arms treaties and proliferation. Carter's campaign sought to portray Gov. Reagan as a reckless "hawk." Gov. Reagan would have none of it, and it came as no surprise then, when the candidates repeatedly clashed over the nuclear weapons issue in their debate. But it was President Carter's reference to his consultation with 12-year-old daughter Amy concerning nuclear weapons policy that became the focus of post-debate analysis and fodder for late-night television jokes. President Carter said he had asked Amy what the most important issue in that election was and she said, "the control of nuclear arms." A famous political cartoon, published the day after Reagan's landslide victory, showed Amy Carter sitting in Jimmy's lap with her shoulders shrugged asking "the economy? the hostage crisis?"

    Gov. Reagan's demeanor, on the other hand, was sunny, tolerant, and almost folksy. When President Carter made a reference to what he saw as the governor's record, voting against Medicare and Social Security benefits, Gov. Reagan replied with a cheerful "There you go again."[20]

    In describing the national debt that was approaching 1 trillion dollars, Reagan stated "a billion is a thousand millions, and a trillion is a thousand billions." When Carter would attack the content of Reagan's campaign speeches, Reagan began his counter with "well, I don't know that I said that, I really don't."

    In his closing remarks, Gov. Reagan asked a simple yet devastating question that would resonate with voters in 1980 and beyond: "Are you better off now than you were four years ago? If so, I encourage you to vote for my opponent. If not, I urge you to vote for me." According to President Carter's Press Secretary Jody Powell's memoirs, internal tracking polls showed the President's tiny lead turning into a major Reagan landslide over the final weekend.

  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Jan 21, 2010 8:36 PM GMT
    As long as Washington, Oregon and Northern California can break away and form the Republic of Cascadia I have no problems. British Columbia can come too.

    icon_wink.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jan 21, 2010 8:37 PM GMT
    No
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    Jan 21, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
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    Jan 21, 2010 8:57 PM GMT
    It wouldn't be such a bad thing if the US split in 2.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 21, 2010 9:01 PM GMT
    Gov. Reagan's demeanor, on the other hand, was sunny, tolerant, and almost folksy

    And the economic hell we're seeing right now was seeded right then and there
    with ole Ronnie Dearest icon_wink.gif
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Jan 21, 2010 9:01 PM GMT
    metlboy said
    G_Force said I think there will be a split in our country with a very liberal group forming a separate government under a whole new constitution, which will forbid the practice of any religion.


    I think you might need to add another layer of tinfoil to your hat.


    This.


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    Jan 21, 2010 9:06 PM GMT
    metlboy said
    G_Force said I think there will be a split in our country with a very liberal group forming a separate government under a whole new constitution, which will forbid the practice of any religion.


    I think you might need to add another layer of tinfoil to your hat.


    Believe me, when I was your age, the hatred then was not like it is today. Sure there was debates and some hatred too, but no where's near to the degree like it is today. Honestly, I have never seen anything like the hatred that we have today. 30 years ago, it was not like this at all.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:06 PM GMT
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:10 PM GMT
    GQjock saidGov. Reagan's demeanor, on the other hand, was sunny, tolerant, and almost folksy

    And the economic hell we're seeing right now was seeded right then and there
    with ole Ronnie Dearest icon_wink.gif


    What do you mean? America loved the economy then and he won another landslide victory in 1984. People actually were working then, not with all the unemployment that really grew after him.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:10 PM GMT
    G_Force said
    Believe me, when I was your age, the hatred then was not like it is today. Sure there was debates and some hatred too, but no where's near to the degree like it is today. Honestly, I have never seen anything like the hatred that we have today. 30 years ago, it was not like this at all.


    Tell that to the Black folks in Alabama and the rest of the Deep South before Martin Luther King.

    There's a quote from Lincoln you would do well to consider:

    "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt!"
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
    Hmmm yes it was two events they were called the Civil Rights Movement and the Civil War the country was split. Oh dear. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste".
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jan 21, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    Yes, and yet who started the thread touting the benefits of the MIDTOWN SPA/SEX CLUB he goes to regularly in Milwaukee. icon_rolleyes.gif
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/798326/ Yesterday, it was "We Need To Move All 3 Million Haitians" to God only knows where. Today It's "Will The U.S. Split in Half". I swear, he's like the gay male version of "Sybil"


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    Jan 21, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    No, laws do permit anyone to preach any religious belief in this country in their house of worship and through media. ALL religions are granted this right in this country. Nobody can forbid a religious group from doing this.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:20 PM GMT
    Hmmm... Posts suggesting the relocation of all of the 10-20 million Haitians and the US is going to split in two all within a couple of days... I think the OP is off his meds...
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:20 PM GMT
    G_Force said
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    No, laws do permit anyone to preach any religious belief in this country in their house of worship and through media. ALL religions are granted this right in this country. Nobody can forbid a religious group from doing this.


    That's right and that's why Satan is King. Satan kicks Jesus' ass 9 ways from Sunday. Satan is lord, he is the alpha and the omega, Jesus rates a beta. Go tell it on the mountain for you have been told.

    McGay 4:20
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Jan 21, 2010 9:22 PM GMT
    G_Force said
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    No, laws do permit anyone to preach any religious belief in this country in their house of worship and through media. ALL religions are granted this right in this country. Nobody can forbid a religious group from doing this.


    Where do you come up with this stuff. No, religions do not have a right to preach their message through all media.

    Hypothetically, if I owned a newspaper, I could allow or prohibit any religion from preaching in it that I want. It would be privately owned.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    Yes, and yet who started the thread touting the benefits of the MIDTOWN SPA/SEX CLUB he goes to regularly in Milwaukee. icon_rolleyes.gif
    I swear, he's like the gay male version of "Sybil"


    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/798326/


    What's wrong with going t o a gay spa? You are wierd. But obviously you didn't read carefully what I said because I said I don't get there much. You like to change what people say.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    When you go to the gay spa, do you have sex with the men only in your mind or do you splurge for the full monty? Does your missus sometimes accompany you to the gay spa? Do you get a gay facial? Does she?
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:28 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi said
    G_Force said The US Constitution which grants the right to preach any religion you want to in this country in houses of worship, mass media (internet, TV, radio, print) is a right I will defend.


    Actually, you're mistaken. It simply states that we are free from government-sanctioned religion.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to defend your need to proselytise to the rest of us about YOUR personal religious beliefs when nobody here has asked you to do so.


    The thread is about the country splitting, not religion.
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    Jan 21, 2010 9:31 PM GMT
    But if the country splits, it'll split along polito-theocratic lines, so, bringing up religion here and your abuse of it is completely appropriate, mister i-have-sex-with-men-in-my-mind-and-my-wife-likes-it.icon_biggrin.gif