I think I'm speaking Christianese, I think I'm speaking Christianese, I really think so

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    Jan 22, 2010 6:08 PM GMT
    Christian rhetoric is invading the RJ forums in epidemic proportions. While I was originally going to post this comment within one of the currently playing theocratic threads, I thought I would instead incite a riot by posting a new thread about the horrors that are Christian speak in non-religious, public forums. "Body of Christ" is one of the terms that makes me want to pull my fingernails out.

    "Having emerged from this haze of self righteousness, I now judge those who remain stuck in the place I formerly lived. Perhaps I’ve made no progress at all. I read blogs and commentaries of right wing conservative Christians and I get pissed off. I know they are sincere in their presentation of truth, and I understand that their intentions are pure. However, when I hear the Christianese bullshit that claims our lives will be perfect if we simply follow a set of hard and fast rules, I literately want to vomit. Jesus is not the magic bullet.

    "Christianese divides. The language of the church separates. It makes seekers feel like outsiders, and it feeds the gods of pride and self centeredness. When I hear phrases like, “radiant bride of Christ” or “born-again believer” I cringe. Well meaning folks who spout off theological terms like “propitiation of sin” and “transfiguration” get on my last nerve. I have no tolerance for anyone who emphatically states Christians must act and look a certain way. No one has the right to judge my insides based on outside observations."
    http://lobsterhunter.joeuser.com/article/319392

    In case you are too young to remember the song of which I parody:
    http://popup.lala.com/popup/576742257605162121
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:39 PM GMT
    Sir, religion its self separates. Nationalism separates. Identification separates.
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:46 PM GMT
    SantosMadrid saidSir, religion its self separates. Nationalism separates. Identification separates.


    I'm not quite sure I know what you mean as it relates to my OP, but on the surface, I would agree with your statement.
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:52 PM GMT
    so why does it make you insecure again?
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:54 PM GMT
    CanadianSun saidso why does it make you insecure again?


    Huh? It makes me cringe, but it has no effect on my sense of security.
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:57 PM GMT
    ruck_us said
    CanadianSun saidso why does it make you insecure again?


    Huh? It makes me cringe, but it has no effect on my sense of security.


    oh okay good for you i guess, dont like it then dont post in those threads simple
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    Jan 22, 2010 6:59 PM GMT
    I was raised Catholic, and recognize what you mean.

    I heard:
    -Fruit of thy womb
    -Consolations of the Blessed Virgin
    -mercies of the Sacred Heart
    -The cross we bear

    When I flip channels and come across 700 club, TBN, et al, I try to zip past all the:
    -washed clean in the blood of JEEEzuSSuh!
    -He paid for your sins on the cross
    -have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior?
    -All the spastic and theatrical rantings and ravings make me scaredicon_eek.gif.

    I still love some of Jesus’ teachings, but the things people do and say to worship him...icon_eek.gif


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    Jan 22, 2010 7:01 PM GMT
    CanadianSun said
    ruck_us said
    CanadianSun saidso why does it make you insecure again?


    Huh? It makes me cringe, but it has no effect on my sense of security.


    oh okay good for you i guess, dont like it then dont post in those threads simple



    Yea, but what ruck_us is saying that is that invades non-religious threads that he is enjoying participating in. It's toxic, it spreads, and kills conversation.

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    Jan 22, 2010 7:09 PM GMT
    hallelujah, brother!

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    Jan 22, 2010 7:21 PM GMT
    CanadianSun, Ruck_us;

    You so so so close!
    Look, what would one do if there was no bible. If it somehow perished in the past. What would one do if there were no scrolls, tablets, hieroglyphs? No priests, gurus, philosophers?
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    Jan 22, 2010 7:40 PM GMT
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    Jan 22, 2010 7:54 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    CanadianSun said
    ruck_us said
    CanadianSun saidso why does it make you insecure again?


    Huh? It makes me cringe, but it has no effect on my sense of security.


    oh okay good for you i guess, dont like it then dont post in those threads simple



    Yea, but what ruck_us is saying that is that invades non-religious threads that he is enjoying participating in. It's toxic, it spreads, and kills conversation.



    well i guess atheists too have to learn about tolerance; im not nesscarily picking sides just seeing what seems just
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:05 PM GMT
    THe magnitude of their conditioning shows even in their speech!
    The ones that speak with religious jargon or influenced terminology- one could see to which extent they have been conditioned. There for they are limited and their communication is limited. Would an english speaking buddhist, raised as a buddhist, understand such persons?
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:08 PM GMT
    SantosMadrid saidTHe magnitude of their conditioning shows even in their speech!
    The ones that speak with religious jargon or influenced terminology- one could see to which extent they have been conditioned. There for they are limited and their communication is limited. Would an english speaking buddhist, raised as a buddhist, understand such persons?


    no but sure bhuddisht have their philosophies applied to their way of life too and i let them be
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:17 PM GMT
    n8698u saidI still love some of Jesus’ teachings, but the things people do and say to worship him...icon_eek.gif

    The magic of being at the right time and place; the life and words of Jesus were repeated and spread, likely enhanced, in a world that required little scientific proofs and lived by superstition. That same life today might not even be noticed.

    You could also take the life and sayings of Gandhi from the 20th Century, move them back 2000 years, rework them at the hands of some devoted disciples, and he might have been the Christ. Except that Gandhi was assassinated, not executed, and having been cremated in accordance with Hindu custom, no one has yet claimed he was resurrected. And then there's the life and teachings of Buddha...
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:19 PM GMT
    CanadianSun said




    well i guess atheists too have to learn about tolerance; im not nesscarily picking sides just seeing what seems just


    To be perfectly clear, I myself am not an atheist. I was raised in a Southern Baptist church, I went to a Christian university, and I spent much of my adult life in evangelical circles.

    With that said, a few of my professors indeed emphasized the perils of speaking in Christianese in the midst of agnostics, atheists, and/or people of different faiths. So, I am not unique in recognizing that Christian-speak can have the opposite effect of what the speaker intends, insomuch as it elicits reactions to the religious vernacular, which then attenuates the actual message being conveyed. Further, in the public square (which I believe extends to Internet communities), Christianese is a form of presumptuous speech, which assumes that everyone in earshot operates from a Christian worldview or perspective.

    I am not here to bash Christianity, but rather, to encourage those who speak from a Christian perspective to consider the audience and the context.
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:28 PM GMT
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:33 PM GMT
    CanadianSun said
    SantosMadrid saidTHe magnitude of their conditioning shows even in their speech!
    The ones that speak with religious jargon or influenced terminology- one could see to which extent they have been conditioned. There for they are limited and their communication is limited. Would an english speaking buddhist, raised as a buddhist, understand such persons?


    no but sure bhuddisht have their philosophies applied to their way of life too and i let them be


    Respectively, the buddhist may not be able to understand the zealous christian because he is conditioned to understand things in a certain dimension. What would result from clear communication? Not just verbally, but complete understanding. Can one's mind operate independent of accumulated knowledge and conditioning to understand clearly? When there is clarity of understanding and communication, there is NO conflict. If ones mind operated from accumulated knowledge and or belief, then that persons understanding will go no further than the parameters of that knowledge. IF one puts their so-called beliefs, ideas, and views in their proper place then the mind is open and free to see the actually. The fact.
    Which is why i first said; religion its self separates. Nationalism separates. Identification separates. IF the mind sees that there is conflict in division, then i end division! Division being the very root of all conflict!

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    Jan 22, 2010 8:50 PM GMT
    ruck_us saidI am not here to bash Christianity, but rather, to encourage those who speak from a Christian perspective to consider the audience and the context.


    Why? Because you want more converts?

    It sounds like recruitment is important to you; otherwise, why would you be concerned about the jargon turning off people not already of the faith? Every close-knit community or club has its own jargon or lingo. Nothing wrong with that.
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    Jan 22, 2010 8:58 PM GMT
    For every fucked up christian thread that appears here, I will be here, along with others to serve up the ridicule it deserves. You'll convert nobody here, christians, if I can help it. You have no power here, be gone.
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    Jan 22, 2010 9:03 PM GMT
    [quote]when I hear the Christianese bullshit that claims our lives will be perfect if we simply follow a set of hard and fast rules, I literately want to vomit. Jesus is not the magic bullet.



    No one has the right to judge my insides based on outside observations."
    [/quote]


    I know you're not speaking to me, but I had to comment on the article you quote: I was raised Catholic, and no one EVER told me that being Catholic would make my life easy, fun, or 'perfect'. Quite the opposite. I don't know what most Christian religions teach, but I am a paid singer at a Presbyterian church so I'm pretty familiar with them too, and I've never heard them claim that being Presbyterian would make your life easy or fun.

    As for judging people's insides by their outsides... the things you do in real life are who you actually are. If someone tells you, "I am super loyal to my boyfriend and would never sleep with another man!" but you see them at the club every night going home with a different guy... what are you going to think when they say, "Don't judge me by that!"? icon_rolleyes.gif Your actions (I'm including the things you say) reflect who you are, and they are the -only- way for other people to judge you till we figure out how to read each other's brains. ;)

    Of course you're not supposed to judge other people in terms of condemning them, and I certainly try my best not to, but you do get a certain idea of what kind of a person someone is based on their 'outside' actions.


    I am also not trying to say that people should be seeking my approval, or trying to convert anyone. Just stating that I disagree with the article.
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    Jan 22, 2010 9:07 PM GMT
    rotabilis said
    ruck_us saidI am not here to bash Christianity, but rather, to encourage those who speak from a Christian perspective to consider the audience and the context.


    Why? Because you want more converts?

    It sounds like recruitment is important to you; otherwise, why would you be concerned about the jargon turning off people not already of the faith? Every close-knit community or club has its own jargon or lingo. Nothing wrong with that.


    Actually, quite the contrary. I'm just sick of hearing Christian-speak within RJ's forums. Sure, in-groups (professional associations, academia, religion, technology, etc.) use jargon that's meaningful in and amongst themselves. Maybe I'm more sensitive to Christian-speak because I have been exposed to it for so long, but if it irritates me, I can only imagine how others react to it. There is definitely room for religious perspectives in the public square; I'm just saying that one needs to choose appropriate lingo for use in broader, more pluralistic settings.
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    Jan 22, 2010 9:08 PM GMT
    McGay saidFor every fucked up christian thread that appears here, I will be here, along with others to serve up the ridicule it deserves. You'll convert nobody here, christians, if I can help it. You have no power here, be gone.



    To be honest that is really selfish of you to say McGay.
    Who are you to say what people want to believe.
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    Jan 22, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
    Being that I love love love my gay and bisexual brethren, I will go out of my way to protect them from the abomination that is christianity. I wouldn't let them fall victim to the moonies either, where I can help it. You see selfish, I see selfless.
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    Jan 22, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    SantosMadrid saidCanadianSun, Ruck_us;

    You so so so close!
    Look, what would one do if there was no bible. If it somehow perished in the past. What would one do if there were no scrolls, tablets, hieroglyphs? No priests, gurus, philosophers?


    We'd probably have far fewer fundamental literalists and religious radicals.

    I think that religion is the problem, not faith. As well as being the opiate of the masses, religion is an effective means by which to control those same masses. In my opinion, faith expresses itself without words. (Or, at least without its own jargon.)