FORUMS > HIV/AIDS Forum Rules

Lying about your status....

  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:56 AM GMT
    This really burns my ass.

    Believe me, being positive is not fun, its not pretty and its not the most enjoyable thing to tell a person if you are getting to know them for fear of rejection. Its a shame that it is this way. It seems a never ending cycle...

    People lie about their status because they don't want to be rejected, so they sleep around, possible spreading it to others and so on and so on.

    If guys weren't rejected because of the stigma there wouldn't be so much fear or being honest about their status. It goes on and on.

    When you meet someone do you ask them about all the other std's? How many times have you been asked "Do you have chlamydia?" "Do you have syphilis"? "have you ever had crabs"? you get the point.

    Are these std's as deadly as HIV could possible be? No, I understand the reasoning why the emphasis is on HIV, trust me, I have it, I know.

    I saw a guys ad on another site though the other day and he had admitted to me himself that he was positive and had been for 15 years! But on his profile he put HIV-. It really burns my ass up that people lie.

    It makes me even more mad that we have to lie about it out of fear of not being accepted, loved and admired for the people we are instead of the disease we have.

    HIV is much more manageable than it ever has been. But the stigma is still right up there at the top of the rejection pile.

    I understand why guys lie but I dont think its right and it makes me so damn mad. Atleast dont put anything and wait for it to come to that point where you think you might have to tell someone before things go further.

    Should someone have to lie? No they shouldn't feel like they have to. But I will tell you this, If I am going to be the type to sleep around, I would much rather be with someone that is upfront and honest and make sure I take precautions than to be with a liar and they infect me....because believe me fellows even in the small town that I live in there is ALOT of lying going on so I can only imagine what its like in the bigger cities.

    Its like some guys say...assume everyone is positive until they can prove they are negative and even then you don't know if they are going to remain monogamous (if thats what you decide) and still give you something. Believe me I know from experience.

  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 2:47 PM GMT
    redbull saidIf guys weren't rejected because of the stigma

    Are guys rejected cuz of the stigma?...or are thet rejected cuz...

    1) HIV+ really puts a crimp in having fun with the guy

    2) why invest the time in a poz guy, with his meds, illness, and possibility of dying early, when you can invest the time in a neg guy without all that

    3) HIV is contagious and very potentially deadly


    I commend you on your honesty, tho.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 2:52 PM GMT
    I think everyone should be HONEST and mature about the matter. No other way.
  • CuriousJockAZ Posts: 18375
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 2:55 PM GMT
    Difficult as it may be, I think someone being anything but honest about their status is all kinds of wrong. Regardless, it's the responsibility of each individual to play safe and protect themselves because, sadly, some people either lie, or simply aren't forthcoming with the information.

    I do think that people who are HIV+ are entitled to still have some privacy, and should not feel that they have to disclose such a thing the moment they meet someone, or even the first date. That said, I do feel that it should be disclosed prior to the relationship becoming a physical one.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 3:07 PM GMT
    i wouldnt reject u icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 3:09 PM GMT
    One statement..... Man up!
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 3:20 PM GMT
    Honesty should ALWAYS be first and foremost!! No one should be put at an unnecessary health risk.
  • Red1977 Posts: 13
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 3:28 PM GMT
    Unfortunately, there is no black & white to this issue of telling one of your HIV status and here is why:

    1) For the person that is HIV+, he/she has the right to his/her own privacy; thus they do not have to tell a specific person of their status, even if asked.

    2) Now, if said person is having protective sex with one who is HIV- and the condemn breaks in the process, then he/she are legally required to advise that person of their HIV status.

    3) Ethically & morally speaking, even though you don't have to legally tell one of your status, if you're trying to foster a relationship with another, then at some point, you should tell him/her about your status before having intercourse.

    4) Yes, HIV is more managible (spelling) than ever before and is becoming more managible (spelling), however, the stigma is still out there especially in the gay community which is shameful; just my personal opinion about that.

    5) Another factor to look at is, if you're just having random PROTECTIVE sex, why tell that person. Or if you have a fuck buddy that you're not emotionally attached to and not emotionally attached to you & you're practicing SAFE & NON RISKY sex, (i.e. bare backing), then why tell him/her?

    6) Also, just because one swears they are HIV-, doesn't mean they are telling the truth; he/she can still be lying about their status. So take their admission about being neg for face value until you both get tasted together for over a period of several years.

    And these are just some of the many things to consider.

    The important thing is that we all educate ourselves about HIV/AIDS and practice safe sex as if the other person is HIV+, regardless if they are honest or not about their status.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 3:59 PM GMT
    Red1977 said2) Now, if said person is having protective sex with one who is HIV- and the condemn breaks in the process, then he/she are legally required to advise that person of their HIV status.

    BULLSHIT!

    After the condom breaks, it could be too late. The other person has the right to know BEFORE being intimate in anyway about the person's status. One has the right to privacy until one puts the other in a situation involving any exchange of body fluid. I would include even kissing. Because the other person may suffer great anxiety after being put in such a situation, even if no transmission occurs.

    Also, I believe you have to advise the person before you have sex, in order to be legally off the hook.
  • CarbGoggles Posts: 705
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:07 PM GMT
    ParkourPump saidI think most gay guys fail to see the hypocrisy of the stigma of being gay in a predominantly straight world and the stigma of being HIV+ in the gay world.

    As the OP suggests, the fear of rejection causes many to hide their status or lie about it. And it's one thing to say you wouldn't date an HIV+ guy, but I've seen HIV+ guys rejected as friends or even someone to chat with online.

    You can't get HIV from friends, and you can't get HIV from chatting with them, so why the rejection in those areas?

    I think it goes back to this superficial ideal among some gay men that your friends have to be "hot" enough to date, however they define "hot", and for most of them HIV+ is not included in that definition, so they can't be your friend.


    Perhaps the rejector was not ISO friends... I know if I'm looking to fuck then that's it. I'm not trying to see how your day went or what you do for a living. I just want to know if you bottom or not. If you're not what I'm looking for then I'm not going to waste your time or mine chatting knowing full damn well I'm not interested. I hate being strung along therefore it's hypocritical to do others that way.

    I'm not going to go out of my way to make a dude feel bad for having HIV. That's just fucked up... As far as friends I'd much rather not know if my friend is HIV+. If we're just friends then we will not be fooling around. I do not get naked with actual friends. If I were to find out that one of my close friends had HIV I would prob get rejected by them. I'm pretty sure I'd be treating them like they were on their death bed patronizing them and trying to comfort them with food, my singing (it's not good), prayer... I'm a freak like that. Don't be my friend and let me find out you have something potentially terminal cuz I'll turn into every Italian mom in Jersey times 10.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:13 PM GMT
    Caslon12000 said
    redbull saidIf guys weren't rejected because of the stigma

    Are guys rejected cuz of the stigma?...or are thet rejected cuz...

    1) HIV+ really puts a crimp in having fun with the guy

    2) why invest the time in a poz guy, with his meds, illness, and possibility of dying early, when you can invest the time in a neg guy without all that

    3) HIV is contagious and very potentially deadly


    I commend you on your honesty, tho.


    amazing this kind of stuff (number 2 above) still rolls off a person's tongue/keyboard in 2010.... downright vile.
  • Heliodromus Posts: 247
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:34 PM GMT
    Having worked in HIV social services, most of my friends (and a few boyfriends) were HIV+. So my take is a little bit different. I've seen the discrimination and the pain of rejection, the nightmare of worrying about your status being disclosed to others when relationships go sour, and many other scenarios that are equally unpleasant.

    Positive guys don't have to disclose anything until they are ready to do so or required by law. Period. Being your friend, chat buddy, or coffee date doesn't require a sero-status conversation any more than a chat about the last time you had a greenish discharge. They don't know you, who you run with, or what you might say to someone else. Expecting them to divulge very personal information immediately is very short-sighted.

    Do you ask a guy on your first date to pick a china pattern for your wedding? Of course not, you're not at that place yet. There's lots of personal information that we don't disclose immediately, and if you would absolutely never date a guy with HIV then you be upfront so that he never approaches in the first place.


  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:34 PM GMT
    rightasrain said
    Caslon12000 said
    redbull saidIf guys weren't rejected because of the stigma

    Are guys rejected cuz of the stigma?...or are thet rejected cuz...

    1) HIV+ really puts a crimp in having fun with the guy

    2) why invest the time in a poz guy, with his meds, illness, and possibility of dying early, when you can invest the time in a neg guy without all that

    3) HIV is contagious and very potentially deadly


    I commend you on your honesty, tho.


    amazing this kind of stuff (number 2 above) still rolls off a person's tongue/keyboard in 2010.... downright vile.

    Well, if it makes any difference, I meant in terms of a long term intimate relationship, not a friendship.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    "When you meet someone do you ask them about all the other std's? How many times have you been asked "Do you have chlamydia?" "Do you have syphilis"? "have you ever had crabs"? you get the point."

    Folks should ask those questions. HIV is clearly not the death sentence it may have once been, but, the clap is a lot different from a life shortening / life ending disease.

    HIV+ folks are skillful liars, I've found in the past. Many that I've met have a world that revolves around them and they'll say whatever to whomever to get want they want. It's the I,I,I,me,me,me thing that got them in trouble and those behaviors can be hard to break.

    It's HARD to get HIV if you practice certain behaviors. You almost have to work at getting it. It's nearly 100% preventable as we all know. It's hard to be compassionate about folks who engage in reckless, and often deceitful, behavior.

    Yeah, it's real wrong to lie about being a carrier. It's wrong to steal pictures, use fake pics, etc...; lie in general, but, nothing new to a certain subsection of folks in the gay community. It's standard operating procedure for them.

    HIV+ folks have a moral responsibility towards others to disclose their status. While I could be cordial with someone with HIV, and even friends, I'd have no interest in managing a relationship that involved HIV.

    One shouldn't have to ask. It should be out on the table on day one. That's what decent folks do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:39 PM GMT
    rightasrain said
    Caslon12000 said
    redbull saidIf guys weren't rejected because of the stigma

    Are guys rejected cuz of the stigma?...or are thet rejected cuz...

    1) HIV+ really puts a crimp in having fun with the guy

    2) why invest the time in a poz guy, with his meds, illness, and possibility of dying early, when you can invest the time in a neg guy without all that

    3) HIV is contagious and very potentially deadly


    I commend you on your honesty, tho.


    amazing this kind of stuff (number 2 above) still rolls off a person's tongue/keyboard in 2010.... downright vile.


    It's vile but Hollywood and the media helps plant this image into peoples heads.
  • CarbGoggles Posts: 705
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:39 PM GMT
    ParkourPump said
    CarbGoggles said
    ParkourPump saidI think most gay guys fail to see the hypocrisy of the stigma of being gay in a predominantly straight world and the stigma of being HIV+ in the gay world.

    As the OP suggests, the fear of rejection causes many to hide their status or lie about it. And it's one thing to say you wouldn't date an HIV+ guy, but I've seen HIV+ guys rejected as friends or even someone to chat with online.

    You can't get HIV from friends, and you can't get HIV from chatting with them, so why the rejection in those areas?

    I think it goes back to this superficial ideal among some gay men that your friends have to be "hot" enough to date, however they define "hot", and for most of them HIV+ is not included in that definition, so they can't be your friend.


    Perhaps the rejector was not ISO friends... I know if I'm looking to fuck then that's it. I'm not trying to see how your day went or what you do for a living. I just want to know if you bottom or not. If you're not what I'm looking for then I'm not going to waste your time or mine chatting knowing full damn well I'm not interested. I hate being strung along therefore it's hypocritical to do others that way.

    I'm not going to go out of my way to make a dude feel bad for having HIV. That's just fucked up... As far as friends I'd much rather not know if my friend is HIV+. If we're just friends then we will not be fooling around. I do not get naked with actual friends. If I were to find out that one of my close friends had HIV I would prob get rejected by them. I'm pretty sure I'd be treating them like they were on their death bed patronizing them and trying to comfort them with food, my singing (it's not good), prayer... I'm a freak like that. Don't be my friend and let me find out you have something potentially terminal cuz I'll turn into every Italian mom in Jersey times 10.


    Fine, assuming that I were HIV+ and you were hitting me up just to hook up, then yes, you're right.

    But if I hit you up trying to be friendly, you're saying you'd reject me if all you were after right then was a hook up?

    Hook ups are pretty temporary, friends are a little longer. So even if you're on the hunt right then, you could still be nice to me enough to make small conversation and then move on to find that hook up.

    Hell, I tell people all the time I'm just after friends and I still get guys hitting me up for cyber, hook ups, etc. So I figure if I can still be relatively friendly to them even though they obviously paid no attention to my profile, then the reverse should be true too.

    That said, if on your profile or tag line you said "Just looking to fuck" and I tried to hit you up to make a friend, then yeah, I could see that being annoying when you're just wanting a quick screw.

    In the end, I guess we all have to be clear of our intentions, it all goes back to honesty again, something many gay men find hard to do I guess. Everything I put on my profile is the truth (well except where I work out, I still need to change that, I don't hit the one near my job anymore) and I expect that what others put on their profile is the truth too. If they say they're after friends, then they are after friends, etc.


    Oh dude honesty is a problem for everybody. Cougars especially icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:39 PM GMT
    chuckystud said"When you meet someone do you ask them about all the other std's? How many times have you been asked "Do you have chlamydia?" "Do you have syphilis"? "have you ever had crabs"? you get the point."

    Folks should ask those questions. HIV is clearly not the death sentence it may have once been, but, the clap is a lot different from a life shortening / life ending disease.

    HIV+ folks are skillful liars, I've found in the past. Many that I've met have a world that revolves around them and they'll say whatever to whomever to get want they want. It's the I,I,I,me,me,me thing that got them in trouble and those behaviors can be hard to break.

    It's HARD to get HIV if you practice certain behaviors. You almost have to work at getting it. It's nearly 100% preventable as we all know. It's hard to be compassionate about folks who engage in reckless, and often deceitful, behavior.

    Yeah, it's real wrong to lie about being a carrier. It's wrong to steal pictures, use fake pics, etc...; lie in general, but, nothing new to a certain subsection of folks in the gay community. It's standard operating procedure for them.

    HIV+ folks have a moral responsibility towards others to disclose their status. While I could be cordial with someone with HIV, and even friends, I'd have no interest in managing a relationship that involved HIV.

    One shouldn't have to ask. It should be out on the table on day one. That's what decent folks do.


    Amen.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:40 PM GMT
    1) HIV+ really puts a crimp in having fun with the guy
    TRUE

    2) why invest the time in a poz guy, with his meds, illness, and possibility of dying early, when you can invest the time in a neg guy without all that
    TRUE, and completely honest and considerate

    3) HIV is contagious and very potentially deadly
    TRUE

    I see no vileness there. I see INTEGRITY.

    E.g., if someone has a horribly disfiguring injury it's visible, and while I might feel compassion, and empathy for them, I don't want to marry them. Same thing for HIV. While I can have a degree of sympathy, or compassion, I certainly wouldn't want to invest in an intimate relationship with them. I owe them nothing, and some of them seem to forget that.

    It takes a big man man to be honest, like the carlson guy, and there's nothing vile about that. That's being right and proper.
  • Heliodromus Posts: 247
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:41 PM GMT
    chuckystud said

    One shouldn't have to ask. It should be out on the table on day one. That's what decent folks do.


    That ignores reality of living with HIV. There's nothing indecent or immoral about protecting your privacy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:43 PM GMT
    Don't ask me to be in a relationship with you without knowing if you're sick. That's selfish, and WRONG.

    If you have a visible injury, you live with it, and whatever rejection / acceptance that it brings with it. If you're a carrier of deadly disease, that isn't visible, you need to do the right and proper thing to stop the progression of the disease, and not to prey upon others, and tell the folks up front. Man up, accept it, deal with it, or however you'd like it said, it's something that you own; something that you have to deal with.

    It's incredibly selfish to have HIV and not tell a potential sex partner. You ROB them of informed consent when you failed to do so, and that's a horrible thing to do.

    Leading someone on is WRONG. It demonstrates just how shallow some of these folks are. They have total disregard for how you feel about the whole thing and DON'T CARE if they jerk you around. It's just plain wrong.
  • Heliodromus Posts: 247
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:47 PM GMT
    chuckystud saidDon't ask me to be in a relationship with you without knowing if you're sick. That's selfish, and WRONG.


    Talk about a me, me, me mentality. HIV-positive people aren't clamoring for a relationship with anyone that's disinterested. We're discussing the appropriate time to disclose, and my point is simply that gay boys are not entitled to receive that information immediately.

    Prey upon people? Lol, you make them sound like vampires.

    And final food for thought. All of us will die. HIV definitely makes one confront their mortality. But being negative is hardly the guarantee of a long and fruitful life. The healthiest among us still can become afflicted with disease or happenstance that reduces our own longevity. You just never know if around that corner is a pot of gold or a runaway bus.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:50 PM GMT
    You confuse self-preservation, prudence, and integrity with being fucked at all costs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 4:58 PM GMT
    trimmedlycan said There's nothing indecent or immoral about protecting your privacy.


    That is such a selfish and situational view of things.

    There's a time for privacy, but there's also a time when someone ELSE's health should be the primary concern... even for just a moment. Assuming they wanted to be intimate or had/have hopes of going that direction.

    Is protecting your privacy more important than infecting someone with a potentially life-threatening case such as HIV? Let's be realistic here... what kind of self-centered CARRION would openly infect people with STD's because they want what they want and think it's all to "protect their privacy"?

    The way I see it... the men and women who think like that, and lurch forward from the shadows knowingly infecting people with their STD's are the nail in the coffin when it comes to the homosexual stereotype in the world. Enablers; re-affirming the reason why people are so afraid to be who they are in this world.

    ... wow that went off on a random tangent.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    trimmedlycan said
    chuckystud saidDon't ask me to be in a relationship with you without knowing if you're sick. That's selfish, and WRONG.


    Talk about a me, me, me mentality. HIV-positive people aren't clamoring for a relationship with anyone that's disinterested. We're discussing the appropriate time to disclose, and my point is simply that gay boys are not entitled to receive that information immediately.

    Prey upon people? Lol, you make them sound like vampires.


    When, in your opinion is the appropiate time to discuss your poz status?
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jan 23, 2010 5:03 PM GMT
    Blondizgd said
    trimmedlycan said
    chuckystud saidDon't ask me to be in a relationship with you without knowing if you're sick. That's selfish, and WRONG.


    Talk about a me, me, me mentality. HIV-positive people aren't clamoring for a relationship with anyone that's disinterested. We're discussing the appropriate time to disclose, and my point is simply that gay boys are not entitled to receive that information immediately.

    Prey upon people? Lol, you make them sound like vampires.


    When, in your opinion is the appropiate time to discuss your poz status?


    I've seen and been told by many friends that they have had great relationships start with "Before we decide to do anything, let's both get tested. For safety, you know?"

    After that, the person either just came out with it, or they got queeny or offended as they were a child reacting to being grounded for the summer.

    Let's equate this to bungee jumping:
    When is a good time to check and see if your cords and safety locks are in place? .... AFTER the jump? ... or well before you jump, once, twice, even a third time.