Universalism

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    Jan 24, 2010 4:50 PM GMT
    In order to counter the monstrous hypocrisy of religion, I've decided to become a Universalist. [I should mention that I'm not, and have no intention of becoming a Unitarian]

    Does anyone have any tips for practicing Universalism? Why isn't everyone a Universalist --- it's so intellectually appealling!
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    Jan 24, 2010 5:26 PM GMT
    The fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.
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    Jan 24, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
    Some people like pain, others pleasure. we are not all the same, or at the same level in spirituality, or even contentment in life. We are not one, so what one may find attractive, another may not be ready to be.
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    Jan 24, 2010 7:42 PM GMT
    I would deem universalism "kind-hearted" indeed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism
    the view has been around quite some time though.

    Notable universalists:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_of_America#Notable_Universalists * P. T. Barnum, entertainer
    * George de Benneville, influential early evangelist
    * Giles Chapman, early evangelist
    * Thomas Potter
    * John Murray, evangelist
    * Caleb Rich, evangelist
    * Benjamin Rush, statesman, Founding Father, and abolitionist.
    * Hosea Ballou, theologian and evangelist
    * Abner Kneeland, theologian and the last man in the United States jailed for blasphemy
    * Judith Sargent Murray, essayist and poet, advocated woman's rights
    * Olympia Brown, the first woman in the United States to be ordained by a major denomination
    * Clara Barton, founder of the American Red Cross
    * Clarence Skinner, theologian and dean of Crane School of Theology
    * John Albert Cousens, sixth president of Tufts College
    * Alonzo Ames Miner, second president of Tufts College
    * Phebe Coffin Hanaford, minister, essayist, abolitionist, suffragist, social reformer


    I think you should not disregard the unitarian universalist though ..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalist_Association
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    Jan 24, 2010 7:46 PM GMT
    You know, universalism is one way to escape a problem I’ve recently recognized: if any person is in hell for eternity, then the disutility that occurs is the same no matter how many other people obtain salvation from hell. Since that person experiences uncountably infinite suffering, the aggregate disutility that occurs is uncountably infinite whether he or she is the only person in hell or one of trillions. Non-universal salvation means that Jesus’ death on the cross didn’t alter the aggregate suffering in the afterlife at all!
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    Jan 24, 2010 8:34 PM GMT
    I like it that the google add on this thread is a web site to help recovering fundamentalists!

    Religion is one of those things you shouldn't take to seriously -- at least the most appealing religious people are those who don't take it or themselves all that seriously.
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    Jan 24, 2010 10:57 PM GMT
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.
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    Jan 24, 2010 11:05 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with God, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. It comes down to the way you live your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.

    In many ways my actions reflect that of Unitaitians. It's an open minded religion, that encarges people to find their own parth. Welcomes people with many diffrent belifes to share value not dogma. Putting faith into action to help the world be a better place.

    I belive my faith is a gift of God, because If I had not experianced the things I have, I'm sure I would have no faith at all.

    I have worked over the past 15 year, to help the world in my own way be a better place. With working in Human servaces, helping the disavantaged in my community, the one I live. Also the one I am meant too belong to by birth; the gay community. By going into the homes of people living with AIDS, free of charge, to cook for them, clean for them, shop for them, do banking, What ever it is they need to be done to help them stay in their home.

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    Jan 24, 2010 11:09 PM GMT
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Very very true!

    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god.
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    Jan 24, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Well I'm an atheist, and I don't go to church. But I like the idea of Universalism, so I'm sticking with it.
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    Jan 24, 2010 11:39 PM GMT
    IHG84 said
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail Marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Very very true!

    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god.


    Forgive my typing mistakes, I did fix them and add to it too.

    But yes, at the end of the day, it all comes down to your personal relationship with God. Now I did not have this relationship at 25, although I was looking. I just was not ready yet, and when I was it happened.
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    Jan 26, 2010 3:08 AM GMT
    IHG84 said
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Very very true!

    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god.



    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this.
    Sec. 51; Often paraphrased as: "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
    "Faith" means not wanting to know what is true.
    Sec. 52


    Herr Nietzsche
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    Jan 26, 2010 9:01 AM GMT
    free_spirit09 said
    IHG84 said
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Very very true!

    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god.




    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this.
    Sec. 51; Often paraphrased as: "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
    "Faith" means not wanting to know what is true.
    Sec. 52


    Herr Nietzsche



    But you find more left wing wackos in there who never had an once of faith too, faith will not prevent you from suffering. And we all owe God death! Your none beliving will not prevent that. But since ignorance is bliss, you must be a truly happy man!

    IHG84, matey did you not smile back at him, or rely to an email or something; he seems bitter to me.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Jan 26, 2010 9:41 AM GMT
    [quote]
    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god. [/quote]

    Amen to that!!!

    I'm a Christian Unitarian. Whilst we have much in common with Universalists we arent exactly the same thing.

    Universalists = all paths are valid
    Unitarians = the way of Jesus is the one that works best for us but we can learn from other faith traditions.

    But at the end of the day, what matters is that relationship between you and the Divine (however you want to express that). Being in a Church with other like minded people helps you feel a sense of place, or worth, of being grounded, of being in community.

    We all have unique relationships with God/Good/the Divine and Church, reason, science, the arts all help us undertstand ourself, our relationship with each other and with God. They help us put a shape to something that can only be experienced and help us share those unique and holy experiences.
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    Jan 26, 2010 1:13 PM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidUniversalists = all paths are valid


    Actually, I'm rather sure that TigerTim meant "universalism" in the sense that Jesus' death on the cross provided universal, rather than conditional, salvation, which was the doctrinal school that united with unitarianism to give us the Unitarian Universalist church.
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    Jan 26, 2010 1:15 PM GMT
    "personal relationship with god"

    Pahahahahahahahahahaha!
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    Jan 26, 2010 1:49 PM GMT
    free_spirit09 said

    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this.
    Sec. 51; Often paraphrased as: "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
    "Faith" means not wanting to know what is true.
    Sec. 52


    Herr Nietzsche



    It's too late for that, Solo. You may have been a good smuggler, but now you're Bantha fodder!

    --jabba the hutt
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    Jan 26, 2010 2:05 PM GMT
    joshnyc said
    free_spirit09 said

    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this.
    Sec. 51; Often paraphrased as: "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
    "Faith" means not wanting to know what is true.
    Sec. 52


    Herr Nietzsche



    It's too late for that, Solo. You may have been a good smuggler, but now you're Bantha fodder!

    --jabba the hutt


    hehe icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 26, 2010 2:19 PM GMT
    Pattison said if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    I thought they were the same too.... what's the difference?
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    Jan 26, 2010 2:20 PM GMT
    Tim,

    I hope you'll be very selective, more so than most, with whom you choose to have a 'personal relationship'.
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    Jan 26, 2010 2:22 PM GMT
    SAHEM62896 said
    Pattison said if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    I thought they were the same too.... what's the difference?


    Universalism is the doctrine that Jesus' death on the cross provided universal, rather than conditional, salvation. Unitarianism is the doctrine that the deity is not trinitarian, but only has one aspect. The two have a certain tension.
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    Jan 26, 2010 2:29 PM GMT
    Satyricon331 said
    SAHEM62896 said
    Pattison said if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    I thought they were the same too.... what's the difference?


    Universalism is the doctrine that Jesus' death on the cross provided universal, rather than conditional, salvation. Unitarianism is the doctrine that the deity is not trinitarian, but only has one aspect. The two have a certain tension.



    I see.... ok.
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    Jan 27, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
    Pattison said
    free_spirit09 said
    IHG84 said
    Pattison said
    TigerTim said
    Pattison saidThe fact that there is more than one leavel of heaven, yes all men will be saved, except for the trully evil, Like John Wayne Gacy. But tim if you become a Universalist, you also become a Unitarian, as they are united.


    You clearly don't understand that Universalism and Unitarianism have no necessary connection.

    Your idea of a gradation of heaven is nonsensical.


    No I just don't really belive in a hell, nor have much interest in religion either. You don't need to go to chuch to have a relationship with gos, or belong to a religion either to have a faith. it comes down to the way your everyday life, and not how many time you go to Church, or how many hail marys you say, or what religion you belong to. It's how you live your everyday life.


    Very very true!

    A lot of people just don't understand, its about the personal relationship you have with god.




    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this.
    Sec. 51; Often paraphrased as: "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
    "Faith" means not wanting to know what is true.
    Sec. 52


    Herr Nietzsche



    But you find more left wing wackos in there who never had an once of faith too, faith will not prevent you from suffering. And we all owe God death! Your none beliving will not prevent that. But since ignorance is bliss, you must be a truly happy man!

    IHG84, matey did you not smile back at him, or rely to an email or something; he seems bitter to me.


    There is no bitterness here, if there is any it might be you.

    "Nothing on earth consumes a man more quickly than the passion of resentment."
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    Jan 28, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    I don't quite understand your statement that you have no intention of becoming a Unitarian as if that is something to be avoided at all cost. LOL

    Though I'm not a Unitarian myself both my parents were/are so perhaps I am a non-practicing UU by default , osmosis or birth I don't know.
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Jan 28, 2010 12:28 AM GMT
    McGay said"personal relationship with god"

    Pahahahahahahahahahaha!



    asshole