Upsetting Morning

  • somedaytoo

    Posts: 704

    Jan 24, 2010 6:42 PM GMT
    Sunday mornings I usually go to my grandparents for breakfast. Coffee and biscuits. My parents usually show up too. It's normally an enjoyable and relaxing time. Afterwards we head out to Sunday morning church service. Every week we usually end up on some interesting topic of conversation.

    This week, my grandmother said that a relative received an email from a friend stating that he had fallen in love... with another guy. Then my mother started, "Well that's just sick". I said why? He's a person like you and I. Don't call him sick. Obviously, I'm not out. Considering my involvement in the church and my family's thinking, I would stand to lose a lot. Coming out is not practical for me at this time.

    Then she started with, "the Bible says....." I tried to inform her that the Bible's teachings are not homophobic and explain what the scriptures really mean. She totally dismissed anything I said repeating "They are all sick".

    After realizing that she was not open to anything other than her previous closed minded teachings, I started to think about myself, and all the "What if's..."
    "What if" I meet someone?
    "What if" I decide to spend my life with someone?
    It's terrible that it seems I may have to make a painful choice someday. Come out and take my chances at my parent’s rejection, or stay in and not rock the boat. At this point I'm feeling a little bit dejected. Maybe some of my RJ bro’s have some encouraging words.
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    Jan 24, 2010 6:54 PM GMT
    What was your grandparents' reaction to this conversation? Sometimes the oldest generation is the most liberal in these matters. Perhaps you have hidden allies in your family.

    But in any case, what will be will be. Someday that fork in the road may come, so be prepared for it. In any family, a gay man's good example is the best response to erroneous homophobic teachings. But you are not Christ, you cannot restore sight to the blind, and the righteousness of your own life is between you and Him. Yes?
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    Jan 24, 2010 6:55 PM GMT
    Travel your path at your desired speed and make decisions that are in your best intrest. To live in truth and all it's glory is a blessing but at times comes w/ a price. best of luck to you.
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    Jan 24, 2010 7:02 PM GMT
    I came out at age 37...and was TERRIFIED that my family would reject me...my family attends church regularly and some are more dogmatic about religion than others...my brother is a minister! Had a few problems and many successes... you will too. The anxiety and fear is ususally worse than the reality.
    Still it comes down to your own personal mental, physical and spiritual health and just how long you plan on living a double -life, a lie, before they catch up to you and you can no longer juggle the story and the truth....You are in a very precarious and difficult position...take control of and deal with it directly and honestly, or it will have control of you and will deal on you in very un-expected and un-pleasant ways. I would move and put a little distance in the mix as a buffer until you have a chance to digest the best approach....Good luck......icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 24, 2010 7:06 PM GMT
    My folks are very religious and they were upset when I came out to them, and it actually lasted for a couple of years. It's really different now. They are supportive and interested (sometimes too interested).
    I remember asking them if they trusted me to make decisions for myself and they said yes, that they had tried to raise me to think for myself. Well I pointed out that I'd been thinking about my sexuality for most of my adult life, that I had considered all the things they were worried about and I didn't feel unnatural or sick or sinful.
    It did take time for them to see that I'm the same person, and that in fact I always was this same, good person.
    My gay brother is not out to them and as far I'm concerned that's his business - he will never come out to them and I trust him to make his choice the same as he respects mine.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Jan 24, 2010 7:31 PM GMT
    A lot of religious people find themselves in positions like yours all the time. It can be tough to find a way of integrating your identity with your faith. There are plenty of support groups for the various faiths. I suggest finding one for yours. One day you will be faced with this choice.
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    Jan 24, 2010 7:32 PM GMT
    There is never a good time to come out of the closet. But it sounds like you laid the groundwork. Good for you!
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    Jan 24, 2010 8:02 PM GMT
    There is the risk of rejection and the likelihood is high, given what you have laid out. However, it is also likely to be temporary, though painful. Lots of parents initially reject their children or grandchildren and change their minds. No guarantees, but the outcomes are getting better as more men and women come out to their families.
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    Jan 24, 2010 8:12 PM GMT
    It's easy to talk about someone when they are so distant from you (a relative's friend). Hear about all the people changing views because their son/daughter came out?

    Mom will change if it's unconditional love. She's just not ready for it to be her own kin, which she cares a lot for and will have to rethink her judgmental views.

    You can change her mind, she has just never taken the time to understand homosexuality and you are her key to that knowledge base.
  • owen19832006

    Posts: 1035

    Jan 24, 2010 8:19 PM GMT
    you dont need to come out to everybody, you can come out when you choose to and in your own terms. now, my family is very religious we are Catholic, grandparents are deep into the Church and values and stuff, when i came out they werent told and they havent been told and will never be told, not everyone needs details on how you live your life!
    im out to my mum and sister, friends at work, close friends and people whom i meet, plus a few members of my industry forum -came out in force at the forums xmas party i was very drunk- there are some people that dont need to know and are better off not knowing, your mum with all her Bible quotes might be one of those you dont need to tell. however it is important to be honest with yourself, live your life like you want to live it bc you only have one shot at being happy.
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    Jan 24, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
    somedaytoo saidSunday mornings I usually go to my grandparents for breakfast. Coffee and biscuits. My parents usually show up too. It's normally an enjoyable and relaxing time. Afterwards we head out to Sunday morning church service. Every week we usually end up on some interesting topic of conversation.

    This week, my grandmother said that a relative received an email from a friend stating that he had fallen in love... with another guy. Then my mother started, "Well that's just sick". I said why? He's a person like you and I. Don't call him sick. Obviously, I'm not out. Considering my involvement in the church and my family's thinking, I would stand to lose a lot. Coming out is not practical for me at this time.

    Then she started with, "the Bible says....." I tried to inform her that the Bible's teachings are not homophobic and explain what the scriptures really mean. She totally dismissed anything I said repeating "They are all sick".

    After realizing that she was not open to anything other than her previous closed minded teachings, I started to think about myself, and all the "What if's..."
    "What if" I meet someone?
    "What if" I decide to spend my life with someone?
    It's terrible that it seems I may have to make a painful choice someday. Come out and take my chances at my parent’s rejection, or stay in and not rock the boat. At this point I'm feeling a little bit dejected. Maybe some of my RJ bro’s have some encouraging words.


    It's often hard for folks with false belief systems to reconcile them with their own lifestyle / sexuality. Those false belief systems / cults / religions work upon "mind control" / peer pressure in that if you don't subscribe to the doctrine, you're an outsider to the fellowship.

    You'll have to decide if the false belief system is what you need it to be, and whether, or not, it's just and right, and really is the best thing for you and others.

    You need to take time to reflect what it's made you: dishonest, a bit miserable and self-loathing, and not open with others. You need to ask the question, is this the life I want to live? If it's not, it's time for a change.

    Understand, the underlying issue isn't your relatives, but, rather, you, and your relationship / fear that you carry around with regard to the false belief system. The events of today only exposed how the false belief system works.

    In 1969, my mom's brother, then 19, and a devout Catholic, blew his head off with a 30.06. You, see, back then, good Catholic boys weren't gay, and his brother (18 at the time) had called him a queer. Of course, it was true, and he went home and blew his head all over the walls and that's what his mother found. To her dieing day, my mother refused to accept the truth about what happened, and said it was an "accident." It was no accident. No person should be so messed up by false belief systems that they feel they need to live in hiding (as you do), or to take their own life. For you to have true happiness, you'll have to reconcile on this in your own way.

    If you're false belief system / cult / club doesn't serve you well, it's time to look for a change in truth-based systems. If you continue to do things the same they will pretty much remain the same.

    Reality is that gay / bi is very much part of nature. I had the good fortune of growing up on a ranch in Nebraska and learning it at a very young age, and I have never been ashamed of who I am, nor my sexuality. You would do well to head down that road, as well.

    The events of today, in your life, show you the hate and intolerance and falsehoods inherent to most false belief systems. If you don't like that, it's time for an upgrade to reality based beliefs.

    I've always known that my family was cool with whomever I was, no matter what. You need to find that same peace and security. Likely it will involve serious examinations of the false belief systems and if they're really as prudent as you think.
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    Jan 24, 2010 8:54 PM GMT
    My father is a pastor of a church and my family is very religious. I was so afraid to come out to them. I finally built up enough enought courage to come out to my twin brother shortly after my other siblings. My parent found out and my mother called me immediately. She said she loved me and she always knew. My father contacted me a few days later saying he is my pastor and my father. He said he said he will be my pastor later and for now as a father he loves me and will always love me.

    Religious people should be full of love and understanding. Why are we so afraid to come out to them?
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    Jan 24, 2010 9:07 PM GMT
    I'm a bit confused. So, you're in your late 30s... and do you actually live at home? That's not the confusing part. It's the late 30s and not being honest about your life with your family. You say you love them and they are important to you, but you are dishonest about the very core of your persona every time you get together.

    As I see it, the longer you persist in this "double-standard" the longer and more difficult it will take for them to "adjust" to the information when they do find out. The sooner you tell them - and anyone you honestly love/care about the better. Not just for you... but for all of society.

    We enable and codify separation, confusion, and hatred when we are hidden and live lies. We perpetuate fear due to lack of personal experience and understanding. We allow society to label us incorrectly because there is no true empathy - which usually comes from personal and honest experience with someone they didn't understand or previously accept.

    I know this is difficult to hear, and it's "scary" but you are making things more difficult for you and for them and your community by not being honest.

    You are a fully formed adult. Take your place in society as one. Vote, love, engage and enlighten with honesty. It is our greatest gift! icon_biggrin.gif
  • Crucializer

    Posts: 389

    Jan 24, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    Good advice here ... I was married with 4 kids and a youth pastor ... when I decided I couldnt hide anymore. This was 4 years ago.

    I lost everything ... only to get most of it back. My ex and I are still friends and my kids accept me for who I am. Church is a different story but thats ok.

    Its horrible at first - but in the end, if you are true to yourself, you will come out on top ... so to speak. ha! icon_biggrin.gif

    As for my family, my missionary parents say they accept me and love me - my siblings dont talk to me much ... but again, thats ok. We have separate lives.

    Good luck! The choice to be free was the best choice I ever made.
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    Jan 24, 2010 9:34 PM GMT
    somedaytoo said"What if" I meet someone?

    MEET ME! ... MEET ME! ... icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 24, 2010 10:01 PM GMT
    What if? Is never going to happen.
    I’m sorry, but I’m upset too.
    You’re 38, when exactly do you think it will be “practical” for you to come out?
    I know I should be compassionate and say things like all in good time…bla bla bla.
    But take it from me the longer you wait the more regret will accumulate.
    Trust in the fact that once you make it to the other side you will be upset with yourself for waiting so long.
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    Jan 24, 2010 10:14 PM GMT
    Pray about it.
    God still loves you even if he doesn't agree with our behavior sometimes.icon_smile.gif

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    Jan 24, 2010 10:14 PM GMT
    Don't delay, come out today,, ,kidding. But really guy,, it's time you started planning for it and and put and end to the charade. You won't regret it later on. Just think of the weight lifted off your mind, all that conniving and deceiving and making things up you have to do now to hide yourself. Gone.
    Like that knot in your stomach or trepidation that overcomes you whenever someone occasionally brings up the "are you married" or "why aren't you married' spiel in a conversation... right?
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    Jan 24, 2010 10:17 PM GMT
    My mother said similar things when I was growing up, my dad even said he hated "the fags."

    I decided at 19 to speak the truth and "fuck them if they didn't like it." The truth in my mind was that if that was how they really felt, then I really did have nothing to lose because if they were going to hate me, then I really could not change that, it is their belief system, not mine. Beliefs are said to be one of the hardest things to change about people.

    It was in retrospect, an act of courage, because my biggest fear was being completely alone and rejected by my family. Initially, it was hard for them, but they came around in months, and through the years, they have become huge advocates, and now view the world differently. Today, they are a big support system and understand more about the reality of being gay. The bible says alot of things...and people don't tend to follow those teachings anyway, how about "love thy neighbor?"

    I would challenge you to come out, but it is really not for me to suggest this to you other than my own personal experience in knowing that unless they change their minds later, they already hate you. And...Fuck 'em if they do! They either will come around or they will not, but one of these scenarios has the best possible outcome and it is the one where you state your claim and find out if they have the balls to love their family and to change.

    My guess is that they will, like most, see eventually your struggle and be supportive. But they have to have a reference to be empathetic, otherwise it is simply "those people" or as my dad put it "the fags."





  • HyannisGuy

    Posts: 24

    Jan 24, 2010 10:34 PM GMT
    I, like some other posters here, feel that you will come out to your family when and if you are ready. If you are never ready, then so be it. It will be tough when you do meet someone that you want to share your life with.

    I'm a practicing Catholic and you may never hear it from the pulpit but the church's views (especially the American church) on homosexuality is changing rapidly. I've talked with priests about how I didn't feel accepted by the church and have been told by many of them, that I need to live and be loved, regardless of what is said in Rome.

    You may be quite surprised when you tell your Mom also as mothers typically know their children are gay. She may put up a fight in the beginning but will come around. If you have brothers or sisters, you might consider telling them first and garner their support. Then, when you do approach your parents about it, you might have your siblings by your side. This will show your parents that you already have family that doesn't care about your sexuality and they love you for who you are!
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    Jan 25, 2010 1:11 AM GMT
    Motorsport422 saidPray about it.
    God still loves you even if he doesn't agree with our behavior sometimes.icon_smile.gif



    prayer-purpose.png

    What you need to do, is to take positive action in The Real World, "practical", or not.

    You should consider taking a role of leadership and example, rather than cowering under the weight of the false belief system.
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    Jan 25, 2010 1:12 AM GMT
    Marry a woman and fake it. It's what those you love would prefer.
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    Jan 25, 2010 1:29 AM GMT
    McGay saidMarry a woman and fake it. It's what those you love would prefer.


    LOL....

    just come out. you should do it for you, your family and a greater good. the longer you wait, the harder it will get.
  • jlly_rnchr

    Posts: 1759

    Jan 25, 2010 1:41 AM GMT
    Your coming out is probably the best chance of changing their minds. Sometimes it's easy to hate on people when you have no personal connection to the hated party.

    Not to mention the overwhelming relief of not having to lie every day to the people you are closest to.

    But it is scary and a huge risk, so if you can't handle it, don't. Some people treat it as a trivial side-note that you could terminate very important relationships by coming out. I just consider myself lucky that my father didn't immediately start praying for my salvation. He's the most Catholic man I know, and he was amazingly ok with it. Not everyone is that lucky though.
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    Jan 25, 2010 1:42 AM GMT
    Changing anyone's mind or seeking their forgiveness should be the last thing on your mind concerning coming out. Do it for your own mental and physical well being. You owe nothing to anyone.