Masculinity

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    Jan 26, 2010 3:17 AM GMT
    “In this society, the norm of masculinity is phallic aggression. Male sexuality is, by definition, intensely and rigidly phallic. A man's identity is located in his conception of himself as the possessor of a phallus; a man's worth is located in his pride in phallic identity. The main characteristic of phallic identity is that worth is entirely contingent on the possession of a phallus. Since men have no other criteria for worth, no other notion of identity, those who do not have phalluses are not recognized as fully human.”
    Andrea Dworkin


    “A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
    Camille Paglia
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    Jan 26, 2010 3:27 AM GMT
    free_spirit09 said“In this society, the norm of masculinity is phallic aggression. Male sexuality is, by definition, intensely and rigidly phallic. A man's identity is located in his conception of himself as the possessor of a phallus; a man's worth is located in his pride in phallic identity. The main characteristic of phallic identity is that worth is entirely contingent on the possession of a phallus. Since men have no other criteria for worth, no other notion of identity, those who do not have phalluses are not recognized as fully human.”
    Andrea Dworkin


    “A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
    Camille Paglia


    What stance are you taking with these quotes? What are you trying to say?
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    Jan 26, 2010 3:54 AM GMT
    free_spirit09 said“In this society, the norm of masculinity is phallic aggression. Male sexuality is, by definition, intensely and rigidly phallic. A man's identity is located in his conception of himself as the possessor of a phallus; a man's worth is located in his pride in phallic identity. The main characteristic of phallic identity is that worth is entirely contingent on the possession of a phallus. Since men have no other criteria for worth, no other notion of identity, those who do not have phalluses are not recognized as fully human.”
    Andrea Dworkin


    “A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
    Camille Paglia


    Definition of what a "MAN" is, is dependent on the culture that you grow up in, not on possession of a phallus.....
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    Jan 26, 2010 4:07 AM GMT
    Sporty_g said
    free_spirit09 said“In this society, the norm of masculinity is phallic aggression. Male sexuality is, by definition, intensely and rigidly phallic. A man's identity is located in his conception of himself as the possessor of a phallus; a man's worth is located in his pride in phallic identity. The main characteristic of phallic identity is that worth is entirely contingent on the possession of a phallus. Since men have no other criteria for worth, no other notion of identity, those who do not have phalluses are not recognized as fully human.”
    Andrea Dworkin


    “A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
    Camille Paglia


    Definition of what a "MAN" is, is dependent on the culture that you grow up in, not on possession of a phallus.....


    "Traditionally, the word man has been used to refer not only to adult males but also to human beings in general, regardless of sex. There is a historical explanation for this: in Old English, the principal sense of man was ‘a human being,’ and the words wer and wif were used to refer specifically to ‘a male person’ and ‘a female person,’ respectively. Subsequently, man replaced wer as the normal term for ‘a male person,’ but the older sense ‘a human being’ remained in use.
    In the second half of the twentieth century, the generic use of man to refer to ‘human beings in general’ ( : reptiles were here long before man appeared on the earth) became problematic; the use is now often regarded as sexist or old-fashioned. In some contexts, terms such as the human race or humankind may be used instead of man or mankind."


    However, male as in the male gender is universal, male gender roles however are not uniformly universal
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    Jan 26, 2010 4:26 AM GMT
    Oh dear God. Do NOT use Andrea Dworkin and Camille Paglia - two of the craziest dykes to ever spew ink on to paper - to defend femme guys. As someone who is publicly and avowedly femme, I would not want to be represented by those two show boating nutbags.

    It's one thing to pull a quote from either of their works but both are utterly regressive in their stances. Paglia, in particular, is more of a paleo-conservative than a feminist and Dworkin (RIP) married an equally crazy gay man, neither of whom believed that woman or femmes could attain sexual or political agency under patriarchy.

    Their theories are not a sandbox you want to play in.
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    Jan 26, 2010 4:32 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidOh dear God. Do NOT use Andrea Dworkin and Camille Paglia - two of the craziest dykes to ever spew ink on to paper - to defend femme guys. As someone who is publicly and avowedly femme, I would not want to be represented by those two show boating nutbags.

    It's one thing to pull a quote from either of their works but both are utterly regressive in their stances. Paglia, in particular, is more of a paleo-conservative than a feminist and Dworkin (RIP) married an equally crazy gay man, neither of whom believed that woman or femmes could attain sexual or political agency under patriarchy.

    Their theories are not a sandbox you want to play in.


    "Nothing on earth consumes a man more quickly than the passion of resentment."
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    Jan 26, 2010 4:56 AM GMT
    free_spirit09 said
    Christian73 saidOh dear God. Do NOT use Andrea Dworkin and Camille Paglia - two of the craziest dykes to ever spew ink on to paper - to defend femme guys. As someone who is publicly and avowedly femme, I would not want to be represented by those two show boating nutbags.

    It's one thing to pull a quote from either of their works but both are utterly regressive in their stances. Paglia, in particular, is more of a paleo-conservative than a feminist and Dworkin (RIP) married an equally crazy gay man, neither of whom believed that woman or femmes could attain sexual or political agency under patriarchy.

    Their theories are not a sandbox you want to play in.


    "Nothing on earth consumes a man more quickly than the passion of resentment."


    Ummm. No. No resentment here. Disagreement with flawed theory and dangerous worldviews perhaps.

    You should try reading pro-sex feminists, like Amber Hollibaugh or Carol Vance. Or, gay theorist like Eric Rofes.

    Also, if you're going to respond with another quote, save us both the trouble.
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    Jan 26, 2010 5:04 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    free_spirit09 said
    Christian73 saidOh dear God. Do NOT use Andrea Dworkin and Camille Paglia - two of the craziest dykes to ever spew ink on to paper - to defend femme guys. As someone who is publicly and avowedly femme, I would not want to be represented by those two show boating nutbags.

    It's one thing to pull a quote from either of their works but both are utterly regressive in their stances. Paglia, in particular, is more of a paleo-conservative than a feminist and Dworkin (RIP) married an equally crazy gay man, neither of whom believed that woman or femmes could attain sexual or political agency under patriarchy.

    Their theories are not a sandbox you want to play in.


    "Nothing on earth consumes a man more quickly than the passion of resentment."


    Ummm. No. No resentment here. Disagreement with flawed theory and dangerous worldviews perhaps.

    You should try reading pro-sex feminists, like Amber Hollibaugh or Carol Vance. Or, gay theorist like Eric Rofes.

    Also, if you're going to respond with another quote, save us both the trouble.


    I use quotes a lot, because it is my acknowledgement, that the ideas and theories that permeate my brain,did not wholly originate with me, that someone else before me articulated them, so in using a language and conventions for that language, I did not invent, I quote and paraphrase often.

    As the saying goes, there is no such thing as originality only variation on themes, people who claim to speak in their own original words are deluding themselves, for they did not invent language, or the conventions of it, except, the people who invented Klingon and James Cameron's linguist who invented the language for avatar.
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    Jan 26, 2010 5:42 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]
    I use quotes a lot, because it is my acknowledgement, that the ideas and theories that permeate my brain,did not wholly originate with me, that someone else before me articulated them, so in using a language and conventions for that language, I did not invent, I quote and paraphrase often.

    As the saying goes, there is no such thing as originality only variation on themes, people who claim to speak in their own original words are deluding themselves, for they did not invent language, or the conventions of it, except, the people who invented Klingon and James Cameron's linguist who invented the language for avatar.[/quote]

    I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. The way people think and use devices is entirely different than that of a century ago. I cannot believe that everything is simply a variation. While maybe not expressed, there are completely new

    Also, while I'm not particularly knowledgeable in feminism. I have heard words like that before. They are somewhat of a fantasy. They are the result of a biased view that is at least somewhat bitter.
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    Jan 26, 2010 5:49 AM GMT
    Yes and women know men like men know women... I mean, we are all sooooooooooooo simple that we can be summed up in only a couple of sentences.

    Go talk to a women what a man is, then, ask her what a women is, she'll tell ou everything a man is and be done in 30 seconds, but will talk for hours about what a women is.

    On another note, go ask a women who has had to have an mastectomy, they all say strangely the same thing, that they aren't so womanly anymore.
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    Jan 26, 2010 5:51 AM GMT
    What is masculinity other than assertiveness and emotional constipation~!~
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jan 26, 2010 5:58 AM GMT
    It is the nature of a large group of people to gravitate toward a center.
    On a forum site that's full of people who are content in their mediocrity, most of the members will reject eccentricity. Without progressive thinkers, however, we would never make any steps toward equality.

    Andrea Dworkin= Brilliant
    Most people on RealJock.com= Not so much.
  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Jan 26, 2010 6:18 AM GMT
    One person's (no matter how brilliant) intelligent musings and anecdotes based on astute observation is ultimately, mostly opinion until proven using scientific testing. Although, I appreciate a great writer's stance on an issue; I can't place much importance on it in my life unless it's core message corresponds with the truth of my life.

    Someone's talent with using words doesn't stop me from wondering what is the extent of the true knowledge they possess in comprehending the subject matter at issue.
    .
  • dionysus

    Posts: 420

    Jan 26, 2010 6:19 AM GMT
    im masculine. i pee standing up. BAM.
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    Jan 26, 2010 6:38 AM GMT
    Trouble is a man. A man who's handsome and tall, so tall.
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    Jan 26, 2010 10:38 AM GMT
    free_spirit09 said“In this society, the norm of masculinity is phallic aggression. Male sexuality is, by definition, intensely and rigidly phallic. A man's identity is located in his conception of himself as the possessor of a phallus; a man's worth is located in his pride in phallic identity. The main characteristic of phallic identity is that worth is entirely contingent on the possession of a phallus. Since men have no other criteria for worth, no other notion of identity, those who do not have phalluses are not recognized as fully human.”
    Andrea Dworkin


    “A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
    Camille Paglia


    I did not have sexual relations with that woman

    --bill clinton
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    Jan 26, 2010 12:25 PM GMT
    I can only go by my own experiences to say what being masculine is.

    My dad always said:
    “Being a man has more to do with what’s between your ears than what’s between your legs.”

    My father taught me:
    Fortitude: "life is hard and it will take guts to get through it.”
    Intelligence
    Hard work: "Nothing great or beautiful in this world ever came easy.”
    Honor and integrity
    Fidelity
    Honesty
    Courage
    Justice - “Two wrongs don’t make a right."
    Admitting mistakes and correcting them. Being able to say, “I’m sorry,” and "I was wrong.” It’s not as easy as it sounds.
    “Picking yourself up by your bootstraps.”
    “Love your enemies.”
    Forgive - it’s not as easy as it sounds.

    What the culture told me “masculinity” means:
    Sports - I love archery. I can throw a spiral football well. That’s it.
    Military service - I chose the path of peacemaker. It can be more difficult than combat sometimes.
    Aggression - I was bullied. I never understood the mindset.
    Hunting/guns - I will kill to survive, but not for fun.
    Muscles - I am an ectomorph. My body just won’t bulk up the way others do. I accept that.
    Cars - I love European sports cars. Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bugatti…mental orgasms!
    Women - Zip, zilch, nada.
    Sex - I have my libido, thank you.
    Drunkenness - I watched my dad sink into alcoholism. I stay away from the stuff. Lesson learned.

    What I am: Myself. My life did not include rituals of manhood. I didn’t grow up in Sparta. I am not big, burly and gruff. My father was accepting of me as I was. He didn’t shame me for not being a jock, soldier, or business tycoon. He understood I was never going to be like most guys. But he wanted me to be the best I could be, and always be true to who I am. I am as I was made. I am a man.

    For what it’s worth.
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    Jan 27, 2010 3:03 AM GMT
    PipHop saidOne person's (no matter how brilliant) intelligent musings and anecdotes based on astute observation is ultimately, mostly opinion until proven using scientific testing. Although, I appreciate a great writer's stance on an issue; I can't place much importance on it in my life unless it's core message corresponds with the truth of my life.

    Someone's talent with using words doesn't stop me from wondering what is the extent of the true knowledge they possess in comprehending the subject matter at issue.
    .


    As if you weren't using artificial constructs?
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    Jan 27, 2010 3:09 AM GMT
    another Masculine thread
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2010 3:19 AM GMT
    caspervann saidim masculine. i pee standing up. BAM.


    Hahaha NICE Caspervann
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jan 27, 2010 3:27 AM GMT
    SoCalNerd said
    caspervann saidim masculine. i pee standing up. BAM.


    Hahaha NICE Caspervann

    Neanderthal_1294840c.jpg
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    Jan 27, 2010 6:16 AM GMT
    Yea - well sounds like a coupla dykes
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Jan 27, 2010 6:26 AM GMT
    I'm also getting kinda tired of the whole masculine feminine stuff. Let's just all agree online you can't tell if someone is masculine or feminine. No one has ever asked me in person if I was masculine or not because they already know. RJers really put too much effort into dividing us into these two categories.

    The fems didn't save the whole human race, nor are they completely responsible for any advancement in gay rights and gay acceptance. All masculine guys are not closeted and ashamed of being gay. Other than mannerisms, there really isn't too much in terms of differences. Let's let go of all these stupid stereotypes.