I liked Obama's speech

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    Jan 29, 2010 8:10 PM GMT
    But now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care. If he doesn't come up with a plan soon to create some jobs, his term is going to be up and he's not going to get a second chance.
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    Jan 29, 2010 10:17 PM GMT
    I did too and believe he will try his best to fulfill his promises if Congress and the Senate allow it.
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    Jan 29, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care. If he doesn't come up with a plan soon to create some jobs, his term is going to be up and he's not going to get a second chance.


    There are two problems with this. A) Healthcare is not only the leading cause of individual bankruptcies, but the ever-rising costs are crippling the ability of small and, even mid-size, businesses to create jobs by increasing their staffs. I worked for a small nonprofit where I had crappy insurance and it costs the organizations about $7,000 a year. It went up from $5,000 to $7,000 in the three years I worked there. That's a huge increase, far outpacing inflation. B) Obama is boxed in by Blue Dog democrats (as he was with the stimulus plan) and the procedural rules of the Senate, so he cannot pass the kind of broad jobs programs that we really need to reverse the trend. That is further flamed by the fact that the big banks that we, the taxpayer (thanks to George Bush) bailed out will not lend to small businesses owners.

    So, small businesses, which are the number one site of job creation in the economy can't get loans to start or expand their businesses and, when they can, the cost of healthcare - even crappy healthcare - eats into their bottomline in a way that isn't sustainable.
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    Jan 29, 2010 10:48 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care.

    No!

    Almost everything the government touches turns to crap. We've got the very beginnings of an economic recovery here - no way do I want the geniuses in Congress or President Obama "fixing" the economy.


    Only when Republicans run it. NASA seems to work fine. As does OSHA, the Small Business Administration. Many of our State and City-run universities are in the top 100 of all schools. My garbage is picked up regularly. Crime is down in most major cities. Despite a lack of investment over time, most of our infrastructure is still intact.

    Please give examples of what the government has touched and turned to crap.
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    Jan 29, 2010 11:04 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care.

    No!


    Please give examples of what the government has touched and turned to crap.


    Why do you ask such easy questions?

    Answer: Southbeach1500 obviously.
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    Jan 29, 2010 11:08 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    Christian73 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care. If he doesn't come up with a plan soon to create some jobs, his term is going to be up and he's not going to get a second chance.


    There are two problems with this. A) Healthcare is not only the leading cause of individual bankruptcies, but the ever-rising costs are crippling the ability of small and, even mid-size, businesses to create jobs by increasing their staffs. I worked for a small nonprofit where I had crappy insurance and it costs the organizations about $7,000 a year. It went up from $5,000 to $7,000 in the three years I worked there. That's a huge increase, far outpacing inflation. B) Obama is boxed in by Blue Dog democrats (as he was with the stimulus plan) and the procedural rules of the Senate, so he cannot pass the kind of broad jobs programs that we really need to reverse the trend. That is further flamed by the fact that the big banks that we, the taxpayer (thanks to George Bush) bailed out will not lend to small businesses owners.

    So, small businesses, which are the number one site of job creation in the economy can't get loans to start or expand their businesses and, when they can, the cost of healthcare - even crappy healthcare - eats into their bottomline in a way that isn't sustainable.


    As a small business owner, You are way out of your element here. True health care costs are a problem, but if I were able to shop with more healthcare providers than just the five (Altius,Humana,Regence,Select and United) that my state allows me to use I could get better rates. If I and my employees were able to choose the plans that work best for our needs instead of plans that the state requires we be offered we could create plans that would work better for our individual needs.The cost of health care is basically regulated by each state which decides who and what can be offered within a state. None of the bills last year addressed this problem.
    As for the banks, my father was one of those Wall St. fatcats. Banks world wide are highly regulated. The new restrictions placed on the banks last year make loans more difficult than they had been previously, and yet we have a an administration demanding more loans and demonizing the banks for the last 30 yrs of bad policy directed by government officals who don't understand the principles of finance and business! Maybe you arn't aware that many of the banks didn't want or need bailouts and were forced into them. Do you think a new tax on banks is going to free up more money for loans? Maybe the administration needs more than just 7% of it's people to have some private sector business experience.
    My tax rate , as a business owner is at about 38% right now. If all the proposed taxes on the so called "rich", who are really mostly business owners, were to pass my tax rate jumps up to over 55% at that rate I can't afford to keep my doors open. If you want a real job creating policy, forget the stimulus that didn't work and start cutting taxes on small business and take away the fear we have right now about investing in our businesses and expansion and we'll provide the growth and the jobs.
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    Jan 29, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    Christian73 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care. If he doesn't come up with a plan soon to create some jobs, his term is going to be up and he's not going to get a second chance.


    There are two problems with this. A) Healthcare is not only the leading cause of individual bankruptcies, but the ever-rising costs are crippling the ability of small and, even mid-size, businesses to create jobs by increasing their staffs. I worked for a small nonprofit where I had crappy insurance and it costs the organizations about $7,000 a year. It went up from $5,000 to $7,000 in the three years I worked there. That's a huge increase, far outpacing inflation. B) Obama is boxed in by Blue Dog democrats (as he was with the stimulus plan) and the procedural rules of the Senate, so he cannot pass the kind of broad jobs programs that we really need to reverse the trend. That is further flamed by the fact that the big banks that we, the taxpayer (thanks to George Bush) bailed out will not lend to small businesses owners.

    So, small businesses, which are the number one site of job creation in the economy can't get loans to start or expand their businesses and, when they can, the cost of healthcare - even crappy healthcare - eats into their bottomline in a way that isn't sustainable.


    As a small business owner, You are way out of your element here. True health care costs are a problem, but if I were able to shop with more healthcare providers than just the five (Altius,Humana,Regence,Select and United) that my state allows me to use I could get better rates. If I and my employees were able to choose the plans that work best for our needs instead of plans that the state requires we be offered we could create plans that would work better for our individual needs.The cost of health care is basically regulated by each state which decides who and what can be offered within a state. None of the bills last year addressed this problem.
    As for the banks, my father was one of those Wall St. fatcats. Banks world wide are highly regulated. The new restrictions placed on the banks last year make loans more difficult than they had been previously, and yet we have a an administration demanding more loans and demonizing the banks for the last 30 yrs of bad policy directed by government officals who don't understand the principles of finance and business! Maybe you arn't aware that many of the banks didn't want or need bailouts and were forced into them.
    My tax rate , as a business owner is at about 38% right now. If all the proposed taxes on the so called "rich", who are really mostly business owners, were to pass my tax rate jumps up to over 55% at that rate I can't afford to keep my doors open. If you want a real job creating policy, forget the stimulus that didn't work and start cutting taxes on small business and take away the fear we have right now about investing in our businesses and expansion and we'll provide the growth and the jobs.


    I'm willing to accept that you may know about running YOUR small business, which you don't name, so perhaps healthcare isn't a problem for you. That said, many small businesses run on razor thin margins where the rising costs of healthcare makes it unsustainable.

    The stimulus has saved or created at least 2 million jobs. It's unfortunate the the last 20+ years of deregulation so damaged the the economy that we're losing them at a faster rate.

    MY tax rate (not owning a business) is 33% in New York City. In the post-war period - one of the greatest expansions of wealth and affluence in our country's history, the uppermost tax rates was 90% and yet fortunes were made that have supported four generations of extremely wealth people.
  • Webster666

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    Jan 30, 2010 3:31 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care.

    No!

    Almost everything the government touches turns to crap. We've got the very beginnings of an economic recovery here - no way do I want the geniuses in Congress or President Obama "fixing" the economy.




    Maybe you should read more slowly, for better comprehension.
    Hardonguy said JOBS should be the top priority.
    I quite agree.

    I thought Obama's speech was dreadful.
    He should have laid out his plan (with specifics) of how he's going to get Americans back to work.
  • Webster666

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    Jan 30, 2010 3:36 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidPlease give examples of what the government has touched and turned to crap.

    It's own finances

    The public education system

    The banking industry

    Medicare (insolvent)

    Social security (insolvent)

    Pretty big screw ups, no?



    And, how did your Fascist Republican party do on these same issues ?
    How did "less government" work for them ?
    Wait.
    I'll tell you.
    They drove the country into the George W. Bush Second Great Depression !

    You had 8 looooooooooong years to fix your laundry list of problems, and during 6 of those years, your Fascist Republicans had control of both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court, AND the White House.
    WHY didn't you fix those problems when NOTHING was standing in your way ?
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    Jan 30, 2010 7:54 AM GMT
    Fascist Republicans is an oxymoron. Fascists want central control of government. Republicans want de-centralized government. State power hence Federalism. Power to the states, not the Federal Government.

    Republicans may be many things, and not all good, but it is hardly Fascism.

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    Jan 30, 2010 9:24 AM GMT
    Yeah, let's take advice on the banking system from a guy who works at a non-profit. He gets what makes markets tick.

    You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You could try, but you would fail. Do you think banks like not lending to people? Do you know what their money does when they don't lend to people? It sits there, earning less money than it otherwise could. That sort of thing brings palpitations to their cold, black hearts. So if they could, they would love to extend small businesses credit. There's just the small matter of it being unlikely that small businesses would pay back the loan, and a near certainty that this Government would pass laws so as to screw over the awful bankers who loaned those businesses money in the first place. So you see, the issue isn't the awful banks - it's the viability of the economy, and the creditworthiness of the participants in concert with the consistency of the rule of law.

    You sound like Hugo Chavez, who has clearly done wonders for the economy of Venezuela. Every time something goes wrong because he's driving the country into the ground, it's the evil capitalists who are conspiring again. And Chavez is there to 'protect' the people, invariably by doing something that makes it all worse because he's a dumb peasant with no grasp of economics.

    Similarly, you want endless expansion of the Government into the business of employing people. Which is fine and dandy as a stop-gap measure, except instead they become a permanent parasite class on the private sector's productivity, doing wonderfully useless feel-good 'work' that makes no compelling economic sense. Which of course drags on reinvestment and economic growth, and slowly erodes our future.

    You also want to reward the same politicians who screwed up the healthcare market in the first place with the responsibility of running the whole show, since they did such a bang-up job of limiting pre-existing conditions, opening healthcare markets nationwide, properly incentivizing individual choice versus employer choice, ensuring proper information was provided, increasing medical care supply, decreasing the draconian process of getting drugs to market, and generally of understanding basic healthcare economics for the decades before this was a crisis.

    Just absolutely whackadoodle. You are the reason we need to emphasize basic economics education in the United States.

    Christian73 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care. If he doesn't come up with a plan soon to create some jobs, his term is going to be up and he's not going to get a second chance.


    There are two problems with this. A) Healthcare is not only the leading cause of individual bankruptcies, but the ever-rising costs are crippling the ability of small and, even mid-size, businesses to create jobs by increasing their staffs. I worked for a small nonprofit where I had crappy insurance and it costs the organizations about $7,000 a year. It went up from $5,000 to $7,000 in the three years I worked there. That's a huge increase, far outpacing inflation. B) Obama is boxed in by Blue Dog democrats (as he was with the stimulus plan) and the procedural rules of the Senate, so he cannot pass the kind of broad jobs programs that we really need to reverse the trend. That is further flamed by the fact that the big banks that we, the taxpayer (thanks to George Bush) bailed out will not lend to small businesses owners.

    So, small businesses, which are the number one site of job creation in the economy can't get loans to start or expand their businesses and, when they can, the cost of healthcare - even crappy healthcare - eats into their bottomline in a way that isn't sustainable.
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    Jan 30, 2010 9:36 AM GMT
    Our infrastructure is in very poor shape - what are you talking about? Even you personal Saviour Obama has pointed this out, and made a huge portion of his stimulus push basic infrastructure improvements.

    Our state universities are having their budgets slashed as we speak because spending elsewhere by Government has been so profligate. At my alma mater, tuition has been increased mroe than 40% over a few years.

    NASA has famously been a black hole for money, until it started opening up to private contractors and engaged in prize funding, which has been very effective at spurring (you'll love this) competition to achieve NASA project goals at a fraction of the cost.

    Your garbage pickup is most likely contracted to a private entity which does it more competently and cheaply than old municipal services did, hence why they have mostly been replaced.

    You live in a fantasy world.

    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care.

    No!

    Almost everything the government touches turns to crap. We've got the very beginnings of an economic recovery here - no way do I want the geniuses in Congress or President Obama "fixing" the economy.


    Only when Republicans run it. NASA seems to work fine. As does OSHA, the Small Business Administration. Many of our State and City-run universities are in the top 100 of all schools. My garbage is picked up regularly. Crime is down in most major cities. Despite a lack of investment over time, most of our infrastructure is still intact.

    Please give examples of what the government has touched and turned to crap.
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    Jan 30, 2010 9:40 AM GMT
    I wouldn't be so quick to point to it as a recovery JP. We are textbook Japan in the early 1990s, with the exception that our banking sector is much more efficient and less corrupt. The Japanese still today cope with deflation. Obviously there are many differences, but let's not pretend that quantitative easing, which even Milton Friedman would agree with, has solved all problems.

    jprichva said
    southbeach1500 saidAlmost everything the government touches turns to crap. We've got the very beginnings of an economic recovery here - no way do I want the geniuses in Congress or President Obama "fixing" the economy.

    Your obstinate stupidity continues to astonish me. It's like a bottomless pit of stupid.

    The recovery is underway BECAUSE of the government's actions---to wit, the stimulus. Every non-brainwashed economist (even Republican ones) agree with this.

    Why do you even bother to give us your opinions? You'd do better to quote the back of cereal boxes. At least they make some sense from time to time.
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    Jan 30, 2010 1:43 PM GMT
    jprichva said the stimulus was too small, and that the recovery will slow or disappear again in late 2010-early 2011. Congress will not find the strength to pass another stimulus bill, not with the Stormtroopers---er, I mean Teabaggers---howling in German on every talk radio and Fox News show they can get booked on.


    And with the budget in mega-gazillion dollar deficit where is the money to pay for Porkulus II going to come from? Raising taxes in a recession would hinder any recovery by taking more money out of the economy now than the government would put back into it later.

    Re the Tbagger comment, it's odd how the party that preens itself on being the Champion of the Common People can't conceal its disdain for actual non-elite, non-NYT-reading, non-NPR-supporting lower-middle-class people.

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    Jan 30, 2010 2:05 PM GMT
    abelian0 saidOur infrastructure is in very poor shape - what are you talking about? Even you personal Saviour Obama has pointed this out, and made a huge portion of his stimulus push basic infrastructure improvements.

    Our state universities are having their budgets slashed as we speak because spending elsewhere by Government has been so profligate. At my alma mater, tuition has been increased mroe than 40% over a few years.

    NASA has famously been a black hole for money, until it started opening up to private contractors and engaged in prize funding, which has been very effective at spurring (you'll love this) competition to achieve NASA project goals at a fraction of the cost.

    Your garbage pickup is most likely contracted to a private entity which does it more competently and cheaply than old municipal services did, hence why they have mostly been replaced.

    You live in a fantasy world.

    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    hardonguy saidBut now I just wish he would do what he says. He's got to walk the talk. Jobs has to be number 1 and I think he should just put health care on hold, until the economy gets better because right now people just want a job, they don';t care about health care.

    No!

    Almost everything the government touches turns to crap. We've got the very beginnings of an economic recovery here - no way do I want the geniuses in Congress or President Obama "fixing" the economy.


    Only when Republicans run it. NASA seems to work fine. As does OSHA, the Small Business Administration. Many of our State and City-run universities are in the top 100 of all schools. My garbage is picked up regularly. Crime is down in most major cities. Despite a lack of investment over time, most of our infrastructure is still intact.

    Please give examples of what the government has touched and turned to crap.


    They don't have a very good historical record lately. They need to stop talking about what they are going to do and "just do it" as the slogan says.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:09 PM GMT
    All I hear from anyone in Washington is what we need to do, Well, then just fucking do it. Don't keep telling me what you are "going" to do. I'll be dead and buried before they ever get around to doing anything.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:14 PM GMT
    I think some of these politicians (both Democrats and Republicans) just like to hear themself talk. There's nothing that bugs me more then when I hear what they are going to do and then don't do it. Washington has become nothing but a bunch of windbags who like to hear themself talk.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:18 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Webster666 saidMaybe you should read more slowly, for better comprehension.
    Hardonguy said JOBS should be the top priority.
    I quite agree.

    Maybe you should read what I wrote more carefully. I said everything the government gets involved in turns to crap.

    Government can't grow the economy by funding jobs programs. What they would be doing is taking money from productive private business and redistributing it to government programs. That is not a net increase in jobs.

    However, if government would reduce the current (and planned) tax hikes against business, THAT would do a world of good in the jobs area.

    By the way, headless Webster666... Are you still not even bothering to look for a job? Waiting for the government to come along and just give you even more handouts?



    There first has to be jobs before there is anything to look for. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:19 PM GMT
    jprichva said <. I'd hate to think of an officer of the court flouting the law so openly.

    With such a multitude of laws and regulations everybody is in violation of something.
    Have you seen the U.S.Code in its physical form? It' a multi-volume multi-shelf mastodon. Even more enormous is the Code of Federal Regulations.
    Looking at these behemoths in person is what first planted the thought in me that the government is doing too much.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:29 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    jprichva said <. I'd hate to think of an officer of the court flouting the law so openly.

    With such a multitude of laws and regulations everybody is in violation of something.
    Have you seen the U.S.Code in its physical form? It' a multi-volume multi-shelf mastodon. Even more enormous is the Code of Federal Regulations.
    Looking at these behemoths in person is what first planted the thought in me that the government is doing too much.


    The CFR is intimidating and everyone says the government is doing to much until something happens that they don't like and they then say it's not doing enough. The CFR keeps growing because miscreants keep finding loopholes and ways to circumvent legitimate regulation.

    We're a curious contradictory bunch. We criticize government for doing too much but complain when it doesn't do enough or what we want. Barney Frank characterized the current trend among Republicans the best. He said they want to shrink government until it's just small enough to fit in your bedroom. It was a brilliant way to point out that while they claim to want to get the government out of people's lives, they see no contradiction in inserting it into the most intimate and private aspects.

    I thought the President was great, particularly when he put the Republicans on the spot to stop obstructing and start governing. The Republicans may be surprised but what they reallly got with the election of Scott Brown.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:36 PM GMT
    Joe52 said The CFR keeps growing because miscreants keep finding loopholes and ways to circumvent legitimate regulation.
    .

    Miscreants or maverick entrepreneurs? It's a question of whose point of view you happen to take. But to the bureaucratic mind practically anyone in the private sector is a miscreant in the making.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:39 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Joe52 saidI thought the President was great, particularly when he put the Republicans on the spot to stop obstructing and start governing. The Republicans may be surprised but what they reallly got with the election of Scott Brown.

    What obstructing????

    Even to this very moment, the Democrats control Congress. They can do whatever they want!



    Exactly, blaming the Republicans now is just a lame excuse for their own ineptitude. These guys want a pay check, but they don't want to do anything to earn that check.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:43 PM GMT
    chasgo3 saidI did too and believe he will try his best to fulfill his promises if Congress and the Senate allow it.


    He's got a Democratic majority. What is he watiing for? I think the Democrats are obstructing as much as the Republicans. They just like to fight with each other like everbody seems to do here. It's all talk and no action.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:44 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    Joe52 said The CFR keeps growing because miscreants keep finding loopholes and ways to circumvent legitimate regulation.
    .

    Miscreants or maverick entrepreneurs? It's a question of whose point of view you happen to take. But to the bureaucratic mind practically anyone in the private sector is a miscreant in the making.


    I'm thinking of the Wall Street and State Street firms who bill at $500 an hour to devise ways for their clients to circumvent or skirt the intent of legitimate regulations for health, safety, hazardous materials, and so the list goes. I deal with them daily.
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    Jan 30, 2010 2:46 PM GMT
    hardonguy said
    chasgo3 saidI did too and believe he will try his best to fulfill his promises if Congress and the Senate allow it.


    He's got a Democratic majority. What is he watiing for I think the Democrats are obstructing as much as the Republicans.


    What the hell are you talking about? The Republicans in the Senate threaten to filabuster every bill. The Dems fought for a 60 vote supermajority overcome the filabuster. No Republican has crossed the aisle to work constructively on anything, particularly health care. Do you even understand what obstruction is?

    Hardon is a good name for you because your blood is not flowing towards your brain.