Hawaii kills same-sex civil unions bill

  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Jan 30, 2010 7:44 AM GMT
    Hawaii kills same-sex civil unions bill


    http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0110/701172.html
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    Jan 30, 2010 4:57 PM GMT
    totally bogus!
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    Jan 30, 2010 5:20 PM GMT
    From additional background information I read, it appears the lack of support came from the Speaker of the House, a Democrat. Faced with the likelihood of an insurmountable veto by the Republican Governor, he wouldn't waste any political capital on a lost cause. Right now the Dems in Hawaii are looking at unfavorable poll numbers, and gays can be sacrificed to avoid Republican criticism on the issue.

    Plus there's a large state budget deficit, with Republicans of course pushing for more tax cuts as the answer. Trying to steer a fiscally responsible course won't be easy for Democrats in that climate, and the Speaker saw gay civil unions as a "distraction" they didn't need.

    Funny, how come Black civil rights in the US weren't a "distraction" for Democrats some 50 years ago, but a goal? With perennial Republican opposition, and gutless Democrats, we gays have only enemies and fair-weather friends, but no champions. icon_sad.gif
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    Jan 30, 2010 6:23 PM GMT
    ^
    Well said.
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    Jan 30, 2010 7:07 PM GMT
    It saddens me these most beautiful islands have been dragged into such ugly American politics.
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    Jan 30, 2010 7:21 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidFrom additional background information I read, it appears the lack of support came from the Speaker of the House, a Democrat. Faced with the likelihood of an insurmountable veto by the Republican Governor, he wouldn't waste any political capital on a lost cause. Right now the Dems in Hawaii are looking at unfavorable poll numbers, and gays can be sacrificed to avoid Republican criticism on the issue.

    Plus there's a large state budget deficit, with Republicans of course pushing for more tax cuts as the answer. Trying to steer a fiscally responsible course won't be easy for Democrats in that climate, and the Speaker saw gay civil unions as a "distraction" they didn't need.

    Funny, how come Black civil rights in the US weren't a "distraction" for Democrats some 50 years ago, but a goal? With perennial Republican opposition, and gutless Democrats, we gays have only enemies and fair-weather friends, but no champions. icon_sad.gif


    How come many gay and bisexual men use the black civil rights fight, to compare the gay rights fight. Red you of all people who is a breeding bisexual, who has had a number of wives, well know the diffrence, as you are a fine example of how easy it is to hid your sexuality behind a woman. But......... a black fella can never hide his colour. There is a big fundamental difference there mate. Many bi and gay men have been able to enter institution, that states no gay, unseen. Yet a black fella was not able to walk into a whites only instertusion unseen, or even a whites only public toilet..

    Anyhow this is a gay issue and not a bi issue, because as you well know bisexuals have a right to marrage, and able to do so. It's us homosexuals who do not, in most parts of the world.
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    Jan 30, 2010 8:07 PM GMT
    Pattison saidHow come many gay and bisexual men use the black civil rights fight, to compare the gay rights fight. Red you of all people who is a breeding bisexual, who has had a number of wives, well know the diffrence, as you are a fine example of how easy it is to hid your sexuality behind a woman. But......... a black fella can never hide his colour. There is a big fundamental difference there mate. Many bi and gay men have been able to enter institution, that states no gay, unseen. Yet a black fella was not able to walk into a whites only instertusion unseen, or even a whites only public toilet..

    Anyhow this is a gay issue and not a bi issue, because as you well know bisexuals have a right to marrage, and able to do so. It's us homosexuals who do not, in most parts of the world.

    You really do have this obsession about being a "pure" homosexual as you call yourself, don't you? You really doth protest too much, so that I wonder if the person you're actually trying to convince is your own self, not any of us.

    And BTW, since when did the struggle for US gay rights exclude bisexuals? Another of your misinformed pronouncements about my country? Last I checked these issues regarding same-sex marriage concern bi's as well, and as a tactical matter I certainly wouldn't want to exclude their political support.

    As for me, and my former harem of wives, having being deluded about my orientation earlier in my life does not make me less gay today. If anything, I think it gives me some unique insights into gay issues, that I try to bring into these threads, even at the risk of exposing myself to ad hominem attacks like yours.

    And if having ever done something sexual with a woman as well as with a man, or having thought about it, makes one bisexual, then a lot of these other guys here fail your test for being "pure" homosexuals as well. And like me, I don't think they really care what you have to say on the issue. We know who and what we are, without your opinion, and that's what matters.
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    Jan 30, 2010 8:39 PM GMT
    Pattison, there are many many gay men that cannot hide their sexuality.

    Their mannerisms set them apart as surely as any skin colour.



  • ScotXY

    Posts: 117

    Jan 30, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
    Patterson and anyone else thinks like him -


    First off I am Gay. Never been with a woman never care to be with a woman.

    Zero question for me about my sexuality.

    Its not a choice. If it was a choice id not be gay. Nothing in this world as it is makes being gay an easy thing.

    Further in many of the civil out cry's like Women suffrage then Black Americans getting rights after that...... People used the last known civil rights issue as a spring board off and reference.

    Its easy to compare something in which people are more familiar and can identify with. Since we are slow to change in a country founded off of people who wanted freedom. Figure that out.

    I really do not think its right that if me as a Gay man or friends as Lesbian women if we find partners or even start dating them. Need and deserve the same rights as those counterparts whom are heterosexual.

    The one thing we are asking for is pretty big ... its only for the rights of marriage and protections that are in that and benefits legally.

    Some of my Lesbian and Gay friends whom have partners homes business together have zero protections outside of living wills and power of attorneys. Some have been together 5 to now 10 years or more. How fair is it that they can loose everything they have made together or one each other and have no rights like heterosexuals. Further They pay more taxes and also and have zero benefits of heterosexuals. Been together longer then the mean marriage of said heterosexuals who cant even get acts together half the time.

    I mean really..

    Lets not forget about basic human rights and protections.

    Not like we are asking for other rights... like from my home state.... that no one is pushing for in many of the other states there are.

    Colorado - Amendment 2
    I live in TN.
    At any given time. As like in many states is at will state.
    I can be fired for any reason including because I am gay.
    I am thank full I work for Company that 100% compliance with HRC
    We have partner benefits and Orientation is protected in company.
    I can be kicked out of my residence because I am gay.
    I can be denied Insurance because I am gay.
    I can go on.

    -------------------

    Further dont even get me started about bisexuals.

    Nothing makes me more furious about men who hide behind a straight relationship and get a gay man on the side.

    That just makes me wish they were not living because it is not fair to either of the people who are in the relationship.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Jan 30, 2010 10:18 PM GMT
    But......... a black fella can never hide his colour. There is a big fundamental difference there mate.

    It's the same for the reason that it has to be hidden to begin with, being gay or black. The treatment is the same and that's the whole problem and why it's treated as such.
  • trl_

    Posts: 994

    Jan 30, 2010 10:21 PM GMT
    Pattison saidIt saddens me these most beautiful islands have been dragged into such ugly American politics.


    They're American too....they've been annexed as a state, of course they're into American politics. They're not foreign. icon_confused.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14370

    Jan 30, 2010 10:30 PM GMT
    It is quite obvious that Hawaii just like California and New York is not as liberal and progressive as it is percieved to be.
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    Jan 30, 2010 10:35 PM GMT


    "These same institutions produce quite different effects while they are still being fought for; then they really promote freedom in a powerful way. On closer inspection it is war that produces these effects, the war for liberal institutions, which, as a war, permits illiberal instincts to continue. And war educates for freedom. For what is freedom? That one has the will to self-responsibility. That one maintains the distance which separates us. That one becomes more indifferent to difficulties, hardships, privation, even to life itself. That one is prepared to sacrifice human beings for one's cause, not excluding oneself"

    Herr Nietzsche


    Underneath the reality in which we live and have our being, another and altogether different reality lies concealed.
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    Jan 31, 2010 12:04 AM GMT
    Ugh free_spirit09, that quote made as much sense on this topic as a bunny with a pancake on its head. Unless you'd care to explain how it relates to the loss of Hawaii's same sex civil union rights?

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    Jan 31, 2010 12:10 AM GMT
    Pattison saidblack fella can never hide his colour. There is a big fundamental difference there mate.


    Only people who can't hide deserve equal rights?
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    Jan 31, 2010 12:11 AM GMT
    Grrrrr. icon_evil.gif

    All it takes is for good people to watch and do nothing..
  • ScotXY

    Posts: 117

    Jan 31, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    Anto saidBut......... a black fella can never hide his colour. There is a big fundamental difference there mate.

    It's the same for the reason that it has to be hidden to begin with, being gay or black. The treatment is the same and that's the whole problem and why it's treated as such.


    You know your right.. fuck everyone who is gay and lesbian.

    In fact talk about hiding... and profiles lol ....

    So lets put your analogy. out there.

    Only visable differences are something that you can get rights on.

    Being gay since its not a color or gender.

    We do not deserve any rights. So the only orientation is heterosexual.

    As the time we live in. 99% of movies education media show heterosexual couples and married, pda's, love, homes, cars, life's together are the only thing that is right. They are the only thing that has rights and allowed rights and thats ok......

    really. could you please have something more then your statement. Further how about get a profile and stop hiding... oh ya sorry we should then start discriminating since you dont have a profile pic and hidden..

    There for by your analogy you deserve rights over some one who is gay or lesbian since we can SEE you dont have pic and are hiding.
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    Jan 31, 2010 12:33 AM GMT

    How come many gay and bisexual men use the black civil rights fight, to compare the gay rights fight. Red you of all people who is a breeding bisexual, who has had a number of wives, well know the diffrence, as you are a fine example of how easy it is to hid your sexuality behind a woman. But......... a black fella can never hide his colour...

    Pattinson


    Ummm, so because some of us can hide, this means that we automatically should hide?? I don't quite follow your reasoning.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Jan 31, 2010 2:15 AM GMT
    ScotXY,
    I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying!