Why non-sexual behavior can distinguish your sexuality?

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    Jan 14, 2008 1:28 AM GMT
    I’m 18 years old have been with a couple guys and have dated one for 16 months. Kind of new to the whole gay thing but not totally naïve, I’m in the closet and I’m confused because I don’t completely understand why gay people behave differently other than in the bedroom. I’m in the closet because I don’t enjoy the fact that people will treat me differently because of my sexuality.

    Gay people before me layed down a lot of stereotypes that teenagers like me will have to fight just because the public thinks that gay people act weirdly. I’m finally starting to understand that some gay people act flamboyantly and to be honest it pisses me off.

    I don’t get why gay people act, un-manly I guess?
    Like, fine go express yourself but to the point where your weirdness is representing the whole gay community is wrong.

    Another thing that pisses me off is why you can tell some people are gay just by looking at what they are wearing. That might be what they are comfortable wearing, but why?

    Not looking for some concrete answers but I just want to hear some other people’s opinions and I wouldn’t mind hearing what the flamboyant metro sexuals have to say on the topic.
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    Jan 14, 2008 1:42 AM GMT
    for starters this situation is NOT only in relevant to gays. this is called stereotyping. there are stereotypes about EVERYONE. you can claim that lesbians who act manly are ruining it for other lesbians. this even breaks down to stereotypes in racism which i'm not gonna delve into here, we'll leave that to the creators of southpark to explain to you.

    not all gay people act effeminate. but the general public will remeber somethign that is out of the norm before they remember some random person passing them in the street not drawing attention to themselves. Hell you may have passed guys from this site and never woulda guessed it.

    you don't have to be a flamboyant gay man. just be who you want to be. people who don't comprehend that you're just like anyone else, -except as you say in the bedroom-, are uneducated on the subject and it gives you the chance to show them that not everyone in the community acts the same, the same way how in the straight community no one is the same.

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    Jan 14, 2008 1:52 AM GMT
    I just dont understand why a large number of gay people act that way and seem to represent what is ,gay, wen in reality the definition of gay should be restricted to a guy atracted to another guy and of course "the bedroom" icon_razz.gif .
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    Jan 14, 2008 2:01 AM GMT
    i have a friend who's very... VERY effeminate, but he's straight. you can't help who you are.

    and oyu say that SO MANY of gay guys are like that. only cuz they advertise they are gay. i bet alot of other gays don't walk around with a sign on their head and don't introduce themselves "hi i'm jim, and i'm gay. nice to meet you". you seem worried that your sexually will define you in other peoples minds. people will judge you based on you.
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    Jan 14, 2008 2:01 AM GMT
    I have a theory that

    gay guys don't actually act significantly different from their heterosexual counterparts.Straight guys exaggerates there manly qualities because they have been raised in a homophobic environment, where sexual attraction towards someone of the same sex is considered negative and they have no experience of such feelings as they don't allow themselves to consider it because they think considering the concept, even abstractly will make them gay.

    Perhaps also because they too feel some repressed same sex attraction the so called freudian spectrum of sexuality



    Gay guys are just more open to exploring the full range of their humanity because they are not limited by that fear

    Similarly you get gay guys who because of their homosexuality feel a declined sense of purpose and overall rejection. Society tells them they are inferior and useless so they react by super exaggerating and making the behavior associated with homosexuality the focal point of their identity
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    Jan 14, 2008 4:06 AM GMT
    abnormals tend to stand out to people more because of something called the Availability Heuristic - the belief that a statistically unusual high frequency of something indicates a prevalence of it.

    Shark attack season comes and during those times, people are classically incapable of keeping their bearings about them about the actual likelihood of being attacked by a shark. This also lends itself to views on urban life, murder rates, nonsensical views on full moons or new years day. The illusion is everywhere, just remind yourself that the world is bigger than your circle of friends and acquaintances.

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    Jan 14, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
    I think that as you mature and become more confident in who you are, you'll find it doesn't matter how other gay men dress or behave. As others have said, not all gay men are outrageous flaming queens. But, so what if some of them are? Why should all gay men conform to some heteronormative stereotype of manliness and masculinity?
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    Jan 14, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    Sure - I gesticulate. Sure - I own a pair of heels. Sure - I work in a floral shop. Sure - I love fashion. Sure - I make candy and I bake on Sundays. But that is not what makes me gay. Loving a man is what makes me gay. The rest is just what brings me joy - if only people could learn to respect what others derive happiness from...

    ...but that is just me being optimistic.


    And weird? Oh, please - Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.

    "Normal" is the submission to the fact that you/others are "abnormal". "Normal" is the denial of the I, and the desire to be a part of the we - it's jumping into the washing machine on "normal" when you need cold and you'll wind up shrinking yourself in the process. "Normal" is a reduction of the identity that is the self and then what is left? A shrunken shirt that nobody wants or wears.

    You hate weirdness? Well I hate normalcy.
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    Jan 14, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    Jrdnstatz saidSure - I gesticulate. Sure - I own a pair of heels. Sure - I work in a floral shop. Sure - I love fashion. Sure - I make candy and I bake on Sundays. But that is not what makes me gay. Loving a man is what makes me gay. The rest is just what brings me joy - if only people could learn to respect what others derive happiness from...

    ...but that is just me being optimistic.


    And weird? Oh, please - Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.


    Yes! Another guy into fashion!
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    Jan 14, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    To be honest this seems to be something of a phenomenon amongst the gay american late teens in my experience --- although it's by no means all of them! --- and indeed I think it stems from the insecurities of early adulthood.

    There are in fact a great many of us (being the group of all gay males) who manage to just be ourselves, wherever on the spectrum of masculinity and femininity as society construes it that may be. You need to ask yourself that, when you meet these little bonfires, whether it is their effeminacy you object to (in which case I think you should remember that such things are a social construct and that it is deeply ironic for a gay person to be intolerant) or more of a sense that they are *acting* in a manner that is somehow untrue to themselves.

    At some point perhaps you will decide that to be true to yourself you will need to be open about your sexuality with your friends and even your family. You needn't be in a hurry to do so.... but remember that the best thing for society at large --- and not just gay society --- is for the true diversity within the gay community to be accepted and visible: from mountaineers to hairdressers; from Hadrian to Wilde to Turing. Therein lies the paradox: for society to accept and understand us, we need to be visible and when we are visible we are more likely to be categorized. Don't let that stop you from being out, proud and yourself.

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    Jan 14, 2008 5:12 AM GMT
    Jrdnstatz saidSure - I gesticulate. Sure - I own a pair of heels. Sure - I work in a floral shop. Sure - I love fashion. Sure - I make candy and I bake on Sundays. But that is not what makes me gay. Loving a man is what makes me gay. The rest is just what brings me joy - if only people could learn to respect what others derive happiness from...

    ...but that is just me being optimistic.


    Well said. People construe things that make people happy as things that make them gay. Does it make me gay if I don't enjoy drinking beer and watching football? Does it make me gay because I don't sit around and fart with my buddies and scratch my nuts? Does it make me gay because I don't want to go outside and toss the pigskin around?

    These are all stereotypes of straight men. Am I repulsed by any of them? No, not at all. I enjoy football and I like beer. I also enjoy a good wine, and don't mind watching Oprah. I enjoy Project Run-way, but also am crunk about the Superbowl.
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    Jan 14, 2008 5:23 AM GMT
    ball junkie i was worried for a second.
    BalljunkieDoes it make me gay because I don't sit around and fart with my buddies and scratch my nuts?


    who scratches your nuts when their itchy if you don't?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2008 5:36 AM GMT
    If he has a penis he's a man.

    Everything else is just the dressing. Clothing and behavior is there so we can be judgmental and avoid people we won't like. That sounds horrible but it's the truth.
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    Jan 14, 2008 6:44 AM GMT
    Track_boi,

    From my experience effeminate gay guys make up the minority of the homosexual community. I'm sure if it were documented, most guys with homosexual tendancies would be men like the plumber who comes to fix your sink, the captain of the local rugby team or basically the boy next door and not the village florist or the local tarot card reader.

    It's a lot less discomforting for society as a whole to make that realization and given that very association with conventional femininity, many guys who may be conventionally masculine, stay in the closet due to this stigmatization.

    I still grapple with the concept of "looking gay". "Oh you don't look gay" or "You do". Who looks or acts gay? Judging by the gay men and women I have met I could apply the theory that Russel Crowe looks gay, or Daniel Craig looks gay or Beyonce looks gay.

    Society pigeon holes to make concepts more digestable for them. So, by that token you shouldn't resent the likes of "the flamboyant gays" as that represents intolerance also I guess, and I find that's quite rampant even within the gay community. Rather take issue with society for marginalizing the definition of a whole sexuality and, one way you can mould that for the better would be to be confident and proud about your sexuality. That can be easier said than done though.

    I personally feel the word gay instantly evokes feminine associations. The pink triangle and the rainbow flag also can be interpreted to be camp which is why "bears" changed the colours of their flag to oranges and browns. Perhaps people might have suggestions for an alternative word to "gay" although it's only a question of semantics at the end of the day.

    Good luck to you anyway. The fact that you are in tune with things at eighteen is awesome. Just try to enjoy the ride, turbulence and all. All the best,

    T





  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2008 8:35 AM GMT
    track_boiGay people before me layed down a lot of stereotypes that teenagers like me will have to fight just because the public thinks that gay people act weirdly. I’m finally starting to understand that some gay people act flamboyantly and to be honest it pisses me off.

    Some gay people are flamboyant, but not all. No, we didn't "lay down" the stereotypes... they've been there forever and most of them were laid down by non-gay people who thought we all fit a certain stereotype. Truth of the matter is that I've met quite a few "effeminate" men who were straight, and quite a few "butch" men who were gayer than I am. The fact that this pisses you off says to me that you're not yet comfortable with who you are. We all go through that to a degree, but as you become more comfortable with yourself, you'll find things like that affect you less and less.

    What gay people before you did do is fight a lot of hard-won battles to make being an openly gay man much easier for you than it was for us when we were your age, starting with the pissed off drag queens and other bar patrons that rioted at Stonewall in 1969. I'm not even going to go into the AIDS crisis in the 80s or the myriad other things we fought for back then. This is one reason I think gay history should be taught in high school... or at least college...
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    Jan 14, 2008 8:51 AM GMT
    Bravo! ::: flings NativeDude a big bunch of long-stem roses ::: Very eloquently put, my dear.
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    Jan 14, 2008 10:23 AM GMT
    Sup Track, I understand what you are expressing. However, its all just stereotypes and prejudging/prejudice. Anytime something is "not the norm" or a minority, its like you're under a microscope. ie.... do all Hispanics speak Spanish, Whites live in trailers, Blacks listen to rap, Asians drive rice-burners or own convience stores, Indians on a reservation? I mean come on now, yeah these are all stereotypes, and if you or I prejudge these peeps on such ideas, then we are just as guilty as those that say that all gays are flames, feminine and are into fashion.

    I did think such as you are, but once I sort of came out and started to get into the "community" I grew up so to speak. My eyes opened up and I learned that its not all what I was expecting. I've come across, polticians, doctors, professors, directors, students, fathers, mothers, granddads, NFL players that are more "st8" acting then actual "st8" peeps. Its what you what to see/hear from others that will either open or close your experiences about them.

    Being metro, is just being aware of yourself. Knowledge of fashion, clothes, hair, health, mind and spirit. What guy wouldn't want this? Taking care of oneself doesn't make you gay, it makes you aware that we all want to attract someone else. I've always gone that extra step to "look good" and I was considered metro or a pretty boy. But in the end I stood out and got noticed for a good thing.

    Trust me, we can break down stereotypes as long as we ourselves don't put them up. Embrace it or remove yourself from it, start small bro. If you don't fit these stereotypes then think bout it, are we all fems, flames, and queens?
  • GQjock

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    Jan 14, 2008 11:33 AM GMT
    Track...
    I know that you're young and new to this whole gay experience
    but be careful
    you talk about gay people acting this way and that way
    but those "stereotypes" are all in your head
    gay men act everyway that you can imagine
    just take a look at some of the guys here on this site
    if you don't like effeminate men...then don't go out with them
    there are gay construction workers...cops... firemen
    lawyers
    teachers
    don't get into the train of thought that gay men are any different from anybody else
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    Jan 14, 2008 2:18 PM GMT
    Jrdnstatz said Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.

    There is a future for you in country music.icon_biggrin.gif

    I share your sentiment, JRD. Normality is not nearly what it's cracked up to be.

    Track_boi, as long as you subscribe to the stereotypes that the culture has created to describe gay men, you won't be comfortable with your sexuality.

    Who risks more and has more courage -- someone in the closet or a drag queen? I thought courage was the manly thing.
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    Jan 14, 2008 2:35 PM GMT
    track_boi, the people society & the media notices are those that stand out. that's where the stereotype of "gay" gets applied.

    there are three things that the public might notice about me.

    1. i wear a small choker with the gay rainbow on it
    2. i check out hotties
    3. i cook really good stuff, keep the house cleaned, and have the best appearing yard on the block

    otherwise, you're gonna have a hard time making me out as gay. i'm a grease monkey under the hood of my car & truck, i make lots of sawdust building things and do the jock stuff. but since that's "normal" i don't stick out as gay. so there isn't anything to rear it's head as the other end of "gay."

    i quite suspect that most of the gay population is far from the flaming end.

    as far as staying in the closet because people will treat you different - fuck 'em. it is your life, live it how you want to. frankly, that is rather spineless if that is your sole reason. i apologize for being blunt about it.

    be true to yourself.
  • Nudista

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    Jan 14, 2008 3:20 PM GMT
    Hey Track_boi....I can relate to everything you are asking/questioning. Not now...but back when I was your age...and older. You seem like the typical high school jock who just happens to like dudes. No sweat man....just realize there are lots of guys out there like you...but they are mostly "under the radar"...undetectable, which explains why your perception of gay men is of feminine/flamboyant behavior, because being a guy and acting feminine catches most people's attention time and time again...so this becomes the stereotype of all gay men to mainstream society. In the meantime...guys like you are going unnoticed and so the gay stereotype becomes lopsided towards the "feminine man."

    I actually think its normal for you to have these questions and self/doubts....its a process buddy. Just realize there are TONS of guys like you out there. Gay men come from all walks of life and are as different as night and day. Some are feminine, some are not, some are passive, some are dominant, some like sports, some like theatre....its all over the board.

    At the end of the day....throw all that out and realize you are who you are...and as time goes by this topic will not shake your ground anymore. Your character will grow and all the gay/straight issues just drop off.

    Above all...just stay focused on yourself. Give yourself time to go through this process...and in the meantime (very important) always be respectful of others even if you don't understand why they are the way they are. Trust me, this will only help you.
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    Jan 14, 2008 10:29 PM GMT
    I really do appreciate ur guys' input.

    thank you.

    Not gunna lie that post was like reading a book lol. an interesting one tho. And yeah I know I'm not done maturing but were working on it icon_razz.gif

    It's just disappointing realizing that the people I want to meet are probably hiding in the closet with me.

    It's just that the only people that I can be close with are the two gay guys I know. One i met on a site similar to this one and we dated for 16 months, the other is one that i spent hours playing footsies (sweating and scared) with before i finally made the move. My two only good friends that i can share everything with kinda.

    My life will be like this until I find the courage inside myself to do something about it. I just find myself tempted to move away (far away) and get a solid dose'age of something different; a gay culture shock.

    Like some of you said i need to look beyond my perspective of my sexuality and i feel i need to get away to experience this.

    Did you guys ever find yourselves having BIG life decisions based on your sexuality.

    Thanks again for your comments and your time,
    i do realize I’m kinda ranting here but i enjoy learning about the topic.

    I enjoy seing how others interpret what i write as well, Its funny seing how some people think of my character.
  • GQjock

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    Jan 14, 2008 10:37 PM GMT
    I don't think this has anything to do with your character
    at all
    It has everything to do with experience and what you've been told about gay men as you were growing up

    You need to find some gay men who you can be friends with...not fuckbuddies...but friends who you can hangout with
    this way you'll be able to see that gay men are mostly the same as you are
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    Jan 14, 2008 11:05 PM GMT
    I am very aware that there are many guys just like me.

    and i can relate this to the fact that some guys like pretty girls or blondes and some prefer the type that like to get thier hands dirty. I was just looking for a variety of answers to the question why gays are persived as queers etc. and why what i have seen or experianced as a young kid from canada is that gay people are generally much more "flamy" than straight people.
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    Jan 15, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    Boy from Canada? Darling, I grew up in Wisconsin - it may as well be Canada, but I'll stop being a bitch...

    More flame - this divides into two categories.

    1. Posers
    2. True Nature

    Group one is made of those who don't know who they are. So they tailor themselves into a stereotypical identity because they lack the confidence to form their own "style." They might walk the walk and talk the talk, but do they know where on earth they are going or what they are saying?

    Group two is made of those who realize that everyone else's opinion doesn't matter. They will do what makes them happiest and nothing less. They will surround themselves with people who do the same. They just do it. They wear their stilettos, watch that football game, and have a kick-ass time too!


    Judgments/assumptions slip off like cheap mascara.

    You don't need to worry or get all upset about what other people do. That is them - this is you. You are not the same person, sure you might feel "offended" by them being who they are, but you can't do a damn thing about what makes them happy. And really - if someone thinks you are just another "flaming fag" (as I've been called along with the "epitome of homosexuality") then really should you be wasting any of your time with that person? Hell no!


    The next time anyone says a derogatory term about sexuality (or if one jumps into your head - as they tend to) - just remember what Jordan told you - It's just some cheap mascara and it's going to wipe right off.