US Republicans Continue Their Concerted Efforts to Make Democrats Fail, the Country Be Damned

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    Feb 07, 2010 3:15 PM GMT
    Here's one reason why Obama and Democrats are appearing to the US public to be ineffective and dysfunctional. But then Republicans want them to fail, that's their stated game plan, and by God, they're going to make it happen.

    As the article notes, this action by Republican Senator Shelby is unprecedented in its scope. The story suggests it's all about pork money for Alabama, but I believe it's much more than that.

    If national Republican leaders didn't approve, they would tell Shelby to back off from this exceptionally selfish logjam for the benefit of just 1 state. Shelby's in a safe-for-life Senate seat, so he can take the national heat for this and not be hurt at home (actually he's being praised there), while national Repubs keep their hands clean.

    http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2010/02/05/need-more-evidence-the-senate-is-absurd-look-no-further.aspx
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Feb 07, 2010 3:40 PM GMT
    sad....but true. icon_sad.gif


    the GOP's point of view appears to be "FUCK the country! let's make the democrats look bad..AT ALL COSTS!"
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    Feb 07, 2010 3:45 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Red_Vespa saidHere's one reason why Obama and Democrats are appearing to the US public to be ineffective and dysfunctional. But then Republicans want them to fail, that's their stated game plan, and by God, they're going to make it happen.

    We can only hope... icon_biggrin.gif

    Thanks for proving my point. I had thought someone might dispute me on my post, but you rush to confirm it. That made my day. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 07, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    I don't know why this should be a surprise to anyone. The GOP have said from the beginning .. they hope obama/america fails .. even ones here have expressed that. The thing is they do not just hope for it .. they plan and scheme for it.

    Someone here said they would rather "burn it to the ground" or something like that, than give victory to "the libs"

    Oh well, it will all backfire .. it always does in history .. and generations suffer for it.
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    Feb 07, 2010 6:00 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    ActiveAndFit saidI don't know why this should be a surprise to anyone. The GOP have said from the beginning .. they hope obama/america fails .. even ones here have expressed that. The thing is they do not just hope for it .. they plan and scheme for it.

    Someone here said they would rather "burn it to the ground" or something like that, than give victory to "the libs"

    Oh well, it will all backfire .. it always does in history .. and generations suffer for it.

    I know... The latest assault on future generations.... The 1.6T budget deficit for this coming fiscal year proposed by Mr. O.


    What part of the majority of that deficit was caused by the Bush administration don't you understand? No one with even a tenuous grip on reality disputes that. The last Democratic president left us with a $200 Billion surplus, then Bush & Co passed enormously expensive legislation and fought two wars off the books while cutting taxes on the top 1% that led to the vast majority of this deficit. In other words, you have benefited from the policies that led to this deficit and now you're upset about it.

    How about you and the other affluent right wingers pay your fair share to get us out of this mess? If you're not willing to do that, keep your piehole shut.
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    Feb 07, 2010 6:01 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI know... The latest assault on future generations.... The 1.6T budget deficit for this coming fiscal year proposed by Mr. O.
    oh go on icon_rolleyes.gif we know that you are not concerned about future generations, but only your own purse-strings.

    What evil will people do for a fist full of dollars ..

    here is a nifty chart that lays it out
    http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/06/whose-deficitAbout 33 percent of the swing stems from new legislation signed by Mr. Bush. That legislation, like his tax cuts and the Medicare prescription drug benefit, not only continue to cost the government but have also increased interest payments on the national debt.

    Mr. Obama’s main contribution to the deficit is his extension of several Bush policies, like the Iraq war and tax cuts for households making less than $250,000. Such policies — together with the Wall Street bailout, which was signed by Mr. Bush and supported by Mr. Obama — account for 20 percent of the swing.

    About 7 percent comes from the stimulus bill that Mr. Obama signed in February. And only 3 percent comes from Mr. Obama’s agenda on health care, education, energy and other areas.
    But besides all that, we all know this whole massive financial failure was a gift from a Republican run government and all those "innovative" financial whiz kids (who want to sell us the same old scheme) .. a failure they blame everyone else for. They are truly the charlatans of our age.

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    Feb 07, 2010 6:28 PM GMT
    If you have a Republican Representative or Senator, call their office and express your disgust.

    If you have a Democrat representing you, tell him or her to FIGHT HARDER.

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    Feb 07, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    Well done, ActiveandFit and Christian73!
    Let's see what the "independent" ( as he claims) - yet oh so fiercely pro-Repub and anti-Dem - southbeach, has to say to try to spin the FACTS you laid out so well.
    I'm sure he'll have some lame, unsupported by facts, propaganda line he's heard on Fox or from Rush.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Feb 07, 2010 7:04 PM GMT
    Interesting how some here see things. When the Dems are trying to block legislation, they are "saving the country" so we can WIN, yet when the Republicans try to block legislation, they want to "ruin the country" so we can FAIL. Let's face it, both sides are messed up.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:05 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rickrick91 saidWell done, ActiveandFit and Christian73!
    Let's see what the "independent" ( as he claims) - yet oh so fiercely pro-Repub and anti-Dem - southbeach, has to say to try to spin the FACTS you laid out so well.
    I'm sure he'll have some lame, unsupported by facts, propaganda line he's heard on Fox or from Rush.

    Nice to meet you too, rickrick91. icon_wink.gif

    wapoobamabudget1.jpg

    Notice that once the Democrats had control of Congress with the fiscal year 2008 budget, the deficit increased substantially. And now that the Democrats have been in charge of the budget process for the past 2 years, the projected annual deficit is astronomical.

    The President proposes a budget. Congress usually ignores it in cases where the party controlling Congress is not the party of the President. In the present, the stars are in perfect alignment (or they were until Scott Brown's election a few weeks ago) - Democrats controlled both the legislative and executive branches of the Federal government, and the red ink is massive.

    SOURCE: CBO, White House Office of Management and Budget | The Washington Post - March 21, 2009


    What portion of that represents the Bush wars, tax cuts, and unpaid entitlements that were hidden and not counted in Bush's budgets?

    This is why people get irritated with you. You don't argue in good faith.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:09 PM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html?_r=1But Congressional Republicans aren’t, either. Judd Gregg recently held up a chart on the Senate floor showing that Mr. Obama would increase the deficit — but failed to mention that much of the increase stemmed from extending Bush policies. In fact, unlike Mr. Obama, Republicans favor extending all the Bush tax cuts, which will send the deficit higher.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:13 PM GMT
    As expected, southbeach, you have some dishonest right-wing spin as a rebuttal.

    The projected deficits shown in your little graph are a result of the economic policies locked in by Bush and the Repubs during the Bush years.
    The projected deficits in the years to come were just as massive in the final years of the disasterous Bush administration. Whoever won election in 2008 would've inherited those massive projected deficits.
    What Obama has done in trying to bolster the economy and pull it out of the Bush/Repub recession with economic stimulus spending has added a tiny fraction to the projected deficits.
    That's the facts, southbeach.
    Educate yourself on the facts.
    Ignore the right-wing propaganda.

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    Feb 07, 2010 7:13 PM GMT
    I don't even really look at wether there is a D, I, or R next to anyone in Congress anymore. They all seem capable of stabbing themselves in the foot regardless of political leanings.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:22 PM GMT
    anybody can find data and policy analysis to support their position... to wit:
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

    an excerpt:

    President Obama Largely Inherited Today’s Huge Deficits
    Economic Downturn, Financial Rescues, and Bush-Era Policies Drive the Numbers

    By Kathy Ruffing and James R. Horney
    December 16, 2009

    Some critics charge that the new policies pursued by President Obama and the 111th Congress generated the huge federal budget deficits that the nation now faces. In fact, the tax cuts enacted under President George W. Bush, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the economic downturn together explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years (see Figure 1 at the above link or in ActiveandFit's post on page 2).

    The deficit for fiscal 2009 was $1.4 trillion and, at an estimated 10 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), was the largest deficit relative to the size of the economy since the end of World War II. Under current policies, deficits will likely exceed $1 trillion in 2010 and 2011 and remain near that figure thereafter.

    The events and policies that have pushed deficits to astronomical levels in the near term, however, were largely outside the new Administration’s control. If not for the tax cuts enacted during the Presidency of George W. Bush that Congress did not pay for, the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that began during that period, and the effects of the worst economic slump since the Great Depression (including the cost of steps necessary to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term.

    blah, blah....

    and Republicans DO have a history of contributing more to the deficit than Democrats:

    http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

    but nothing changes the fact that deficits are not in this country's best interests. if we each ran our own lives this way, we'd be in big trouble.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:25 PM GMT
    rnch saidsad....but true. icon_sad.gif


    the GOP's point of view appears to be "FUCK the country! let's make the democrats look bad..AT ALL COSTS!"



    I couldn't agree more! sadly it seems that is the only thing on the Republicans mind these days! unfortunately there is another truth that most of you don't seem to see! the wealthy even thou only make a minuscule percentage of the population they have a lot of power to steer the nation's best interest to their own benefit. Sadly money and power still go hand in hand behind close curtains of American politics! We the People is nothing but fictitious phrase in the Constitution!


    ♥ Leandro
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:34 PM GMT
    southbeach, not only are you brainwashed by right-wing propaganda - you're just plain stupid.

    Don't you even know the difference between PROJECTED deficits and ACTUAL deficits?

    The ACTUAL deficits - as shown in your little graph - were getting smaller, yes, of course - the Democrats had taken control of Congress.
    The PROJECTED deficits (in the years to come) were "projected " to skyrocket. That was predicted in the final years of the Bush presidency.
    BEFORE, Obama was even elected.

    As I said, the deficits in the years to come were PROJECTED to explode BEFORE Obama got elected.
    The huge explosion in budget deficits in the years to come IS NOT a new development that's occured since Obama was elected.
    The huge explosion in budget deficits was PROJECTED before Obama was elected.

    Got it?
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:39 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rightasrain saidbut nothing changes the fact that deficits are not in this country's best interests. if we each ran our own lives this way, we'd be in big trouble.

    I agree. But a very high percentage of people on here disagree.


    That's a load of hooey. I guarantee that you can't find a person here who will tell you that long-term deficits far into the foreseeable future are good for the country. But I bet you will find people who know that Keynesian economics works, and that short term deficits made in order to stave off depressions are very good for the country, because otherwise what you get is longer-term slumps and just as bad deficits in the future (loss of tax revenue will do that for you).

    Say it with me: governments are not individuals and they shouldn't act in the same ways.
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:44 PM GMT
    If we hadn't passed the stimulus, which of course increased our deficit, things would be far worse than they are now. It wouldn't just be a recession, it would be a depression.

    I don't get what the big deal is about taxes. Even if you made 1 million dollars a year and had it taxed at 50% (which is obviously far higher than reality), you would still have $500,000 and would be better off than almost every single person in this country. And don't give me this, "I worked soooo hard to earn my money," bullshit. A lot of it is industry related rather than being based on hard work.

    I work as a creative, and I'll be insanely lucky to break the $250,000 income level at some point in my life-- working long hours and busting my butt. Yet, some guy who works in finance and only has to work 9-5 about 40-50 hours a week will likely double my maximum income in but a few years.

    This happens all the time. My father is the perfect example. Guy is pretty freaking wealthy, but he only worked 40 hours a week and was lucky enough to be good at something that pays a ridiculous amount of money.

    We're both good at what we do, but I end up working a lot more and getting paid a lot less. Do you see how this can make people completely unsympathetic to the whining of taxation?
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    Feb 07, 2010 7:51 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rightasrain saidbut nothing changes the fact that deficits are not in this country's best interests. if we each ran our own lives this way, we'd be in big trouble.

    I agree. But a very high percentage of people on here disagree.


    i agree with chewey_delt... i don't think that being a Democrat is synonymous with believing it's OK to run big deficits. but as a Democrat (largely because of 'social' priorities), i have to accept the fiscal decisions/priorities of my president and i definitely prefer him in office over a conservative despite the fact that he hasn't done as much for 'us' as he claimed he would.
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    Feb 07, 2010 8:02 PM GMT
    rightasrain said
    southbeach1500 said
    rightasrain saidbut nothing changes the fact that deficits are not in this country's best interests. if we each ran our own lives this way, we'd be in big trouble.

    I agree. But a very high percentage of people on here disagree.


    i agree with chewey_delt... i don't think that being a Democrat is synonymous with believing it's OK to run big deficits. but as a Democrat (largely because of 'social' priorities), i have to accept the fiscal decisions/priorities of my president and i definitely prefer him in office over a conservative despite the fact that he hasn't done as much for 'us' as he claimed he would.


    Yes. That Democrats are pro-long term deficits is a straw man argument. No one wants that. What we want is stimulative measures that will get the economy back on track, sane financial reform that will prevent another implosion caused by over-leveraging and casino gambling with people's retirement funds, and a fair safety net for that takes care of those harmed by the crisis through mostly no fault of their own.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Feb 07, 2010 8:07 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidInteresting how some here see things. When the Dems are trying to block legislation, they are "saving the country" so we can WIN, yet when the Republicans try to block legislation, they want to "ruin the country" so we can FAIL. Let's face it, both sides are messed up.


    Thank you icon_biggrin.gif

    Glad someone sees how these recent political posts are completely ridiculous

    It seems like the Democrats these days can't keep their mouth shut and they complain and complain just like they did during Bush's presidency. Whenever someone else does something they don't like, those ppl are the enemies. I hope you guys keep opening ur big mouths and let ppl see what ur party is really about
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    Feb 07, 2010 8:21 PM GMT
    Jmuscle33 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidInteresting how some here see things. When the Dems are trying to block legislation, they are "saving the country" so we can WIN, yet when the Republicans try to block legislation, they want to "ruin the country" so we can FAIL. Let's face it, both sides are messed up.


    Thank you icon_biggrin.gif

    Glad someone sees how these recent political posts are completely ridiculous

    It seems like the Democrats these days can't keep their mouth shut and they complain and complain just like they did during Bush's presidency. Whenever someone else does something they don't like, those ppl are the enemies. I hope you guys keep opening ur big mouths and let ppl see what ur party is really about


    the Democrats should grow some balls and get over the hand-wringing and obsessing they always engage in...

    and with all due respect, as long as we continue to isolate American priorities into those of 'your' party and 'your' leaders, the car that is our country will never get the wheel that's currently in the ditch back on the road.
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    Feb 07, 2010 8:29 PM GMT
    Gilbercrat saidIf we hadn't passed the stimulus, which of course increased our deficit, things would be far worse than they are now. It wouldn't just be a recession, it would be a depression.

    I don't get what the big deal is about taxes. Even if you made 1 million dollars a year and had it taxed at 50% (which is obviously far higher than reality), you would still have $500,000 and would be better off than almost every single person in this country. And don't give me this, "I worked soooo hard to earn my money," bullshit. A lot of it is industry related rather than being based on hard work.

    I work as a creative, and I'll be insanely lucky to break the $250,000 income level at some point in my life-- working long hours and busting my butt. Yet, some guy who works in finance and only has to work 9-5 about 40-50 hours a week will likely double my maximum income in but a few years.

    This happens all the time. My father is the perfect example. Guy is pretty freaking wealthy, but he only worked 40 hours a week and was lucky enough to be good at something that pays a ridiculous amount of money.

    We're both good at what we do, but I end up working a lot more and getting paid a lot less. Do you see how this can make people completely unsympathetic to the whining of taxation?


    Pay is determined largely by societal values. If we valued teachers as much as we did football players and movie stars they would receive similar pay. Unfortunately we don't. If you don't like the pay in your industry change idustries...or change societal values....

    And with all due respect, who are you to judge what is “enough” for someone to make? Confiscatory tax law is detrimental to the entire country not just the person that is taxed. The more you take from people, the less they spend in the economy, which drags the entire economy down and often leads to lower tax revenue for the government.
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    Feb 07, 2010 8:41 PM GMT
    I sure wish RJ would make a forum for politics so all you wing nuts of both sides can vent your frustration or insecurities somewhere besides the 'common' area of the forum.
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    Feb 07, 2010 8:45 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    And also nice to meet you, Chewey_Delt. icon_rolleyes.gif


    A pleasure, I'm sure. Now get off your high horse/cross (you seem to like to be perched on one or the other at any one point in time) and either admit that what you're saying is hooey or make an actual counterpoint.