Using insulin to enhance muscle development

  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Feb 08, 2010 11:13 PM GMT
    I just recently read about how insulin helps with muscle development and that some people have used insulin injection to enhance their muscle development/growth, which is really dangerous!
    I'm just curious with the advocacy against steroid use why the dangers of using insulin for enhancing muscle development haven't also been a part of it.

    Has anyone ever heard of this?
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    Feb 09, 2010 12:56 AM GMT
    Anto saidI just recently read about how insulin helps with muscle development and that some people have used insulin injection to enhance their muscle development/growth, which is really dangerous!
    I'm just curious with the advocacy against steroid use why the dangers of using insulin for enhancing muscle development haven't also been a part of it.

    Has anyone ever heard of this?


    Golly, with the 2.5 million that DIE, each year, from obesity, and all the countless millions that suffer from diseases of obesity, why haven't fat asses been outlawed? I just don't understand it.

    Folks that use to much insulin, get fat, to be sure, but, 1 piece of candy is enough to keep someone from going hypo. I wonder what's up with the ignorance.
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    Feb 09, 2010 12:59 AM GMT
    From www.simplyshredded.com :


    Myth 8: Sugar Is Bad

    Premise

    As with nighttime eating, this is another axiom that has been fueled in part by a general dietary consensus. Since your sweet youth–those blissful years of Skittles scarfing and M&M munching–sugar has been the bogeyman of your every meal, promising–if not kept in check–to foster rotting teeth, diabetic shock and a pregnant belly with matching man-boobs. Surely, it has no place in a bodybuilding diet.

    Science

    When you eat sugary foods, they spike your insulin levels. This causes your muscle cells to take up the sugar (glucose in your blood) and store it as glycogen. However, insulin also causes sugar to be taken into fat cells and converted into fat, and it blunts fat burning. So, yes, eating sugar is bad for most meals. One time when sugar is good, though, is immediately after workouts. Those sugary foods get into your blood stream ASAP, so your muscles can refuel. By spiking insulin at a time when you want it spiked, it won’t convert sugar into fat, but instead, it’ll drive that sugar into muscle cells along with amino acids, which build more muscle. And insulin will turn on the process of protein synthesis, which is how muscles grow.

    Verdict

    Sugar is the Jekyll and Hyde of nutrients. Most of the time, it lives up to its bad rep, but immediately after training it’s the good guy, because it spikes your insulin levels and drives protein to your muscle cells. Avoid sugar most of the time, but not after you work out–that’s when you should consume about 40 g of a protein shake and 40-100 g of sugary foods or drinks.


    Everything in moderation.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:02 AM GMT
    Did you know gay guys are using BOTOX to kill facial expression?
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    There's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    That is so dumb. If I had decided today was going to be my last day. I would inject insulin between my toes, as I know it would do the job. They would not be able to find it, and by the time they realised the problem, it would be way to late.

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    Feb 09, 2010 1:07 AM GMT
    flex89 saidThere's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.


    hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment


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    Feb 09, 2010 1:14 AM GMT
    Progress said
    flex89 saidThere's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.


    hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment


    Logan is a type 1 diabetic. He depends on insulin to stay alive.

    In Canada, his Humalog U-100 insulin is over the counter, and $28.25 for 10cc. That's about 8 to 10 days supply. Here in the U.S., it requires a prescription and is $108.25 at Wally World.

    I understand, you're ignorant, but, that's no excuse for slandering Logan.

    You "hate" on folks because they have a certain appearance, that may,or may not, indicate a particular life style. That speaks to your lack of character, doesn't it?

    Folks like you illustrate why this country has such a poor medical system that preys upon the backs of the sick and injured, and, upon your ignorance.

    Whether, or not, someone drives insulin via sugar, or takes it exegeneously, really doesn't matter.

    Because of ignorant folks, such as yourself, Logan, and folks like him, are exploited for an extra eighty dollars every 10 days. Because of folks like yourself, he's also exploited for unneeded doctor visits when he can get a HBA1C test from Wally World for $9.50 instead of $480 he's been charged in the past.

    You make me feel sick to my stomach. I know you can't help it, but, it's truly revolting. You need to learn how to think beyond the end of your nose.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:21 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidLogan is a type 1 diabetic. He depends on insulin to stay alive.

    In Canada, his Humalog U-100 insulin is over the counter, and $28.25 for 10cc. That's about 8 to 10 days supply. Here in the U.S., it requires a prescription and is $108.25 at Wally World.

    I understand, you're ignorant, but, that's no excuse for slandering Logan.

    You "hate" on folks because they have a certain appearance, that may,or may not, indicate a particular life style. That speaks to your lack of character, doesn't it?



    no, i advocate the lifestyle of lifting quite heavily. I look down on drug enhancement. A persons appearance has no effect on my judgement of them as a person many of my friends dont even go to the gym. I often find that drug enhancement is used by people who dont have the knowledge or self discipline to accomplish results otherwise.

    I may not know flex89, if thats logan, but hes advocating that in his post. while diabetes does cause a lot of suffering to many people, and i feel for that. I am against the use of steroids and insulin.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:22 AM GMT
    Texas is 49 of 53 in literacy for a reason, which is so adeptly demonstrated here. Your ignorance, and lack of insight, is very unbecoming.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:22 AM GMT
    Chucky said "Here in the U.S., it requires a prescription and is $108.25 at Wally World."

    Not true!
    Insulin is OTC. Syringes are prescription.

    Now back to the original question...
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:22 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    Progress said
    flex89 saidThere's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.


    hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment


    Logan is a type 1 diabetic. He depends on insulin to stay alive.

    In Canada, his Humalog U-100 insulin is over the counter, and $28.25 for 10cc. That's about 8 to 10 days supply. Here in the U.S., it requires a prescription and is $108.25 at Wally World.

    I understand, you're ignorant, but, that's no excuse for slandering Logan.

    You "hate" on folks because they have a certain appearance, that may,or may not, indicate a particular life style. That speaks to your lack of character, doesn't it?

    Folks like you illustrate why this country has such a poor medical system that preys upon the backs of the sick and injured, and, upon your ignorance.

    Whether, or not, someone drives insulin via sugar, or takes it exegeneously, really doesn't matter.

    Because of ignorant folks, such as yourself, Logan, and folks like him, are exploited for an extra eighty dollars every 10 days. Because of folks like yourself, he's also exploited for unneeded doctor visits when he can get a HBA1C test from Wally World for $9.50 instead of $480 he's been charged in the past.

    You make me feel sick to my stomach. I know you can't help it, but, it's truly revolting. You need to learn how to think beyond the end of your nose.


    lol you must have gone back to edit your post, you must be pretty hurt about my stance this. roid rage much? sorry to hear that
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    Progress said
    flex89 saidThere's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.


    hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment


    I'm a type 1 diabetic and I've got the stuff being pumped into me 24/7. I only look the way I do because I maintain a very clean diet, work out six days a week, and I am very proactive in the management of my disease. My hemoglobin A1c is a 5.5, my kidney function is optimal, and I still have all the feeling in my hands and toes.

    My success and your ignorance are no reasons for you to accuse me of abusing anything.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:24 AM GMT
    I look down on stupid folks with double standards. You eat Texas barbecue? You take Tylenol? You had fast food? Now, whatcha' think is more dangerous? Hint: go watch "Supersize Me."

    You drink beer? I look down on folks who trash their brains with alcohol (SIC).

    You understand how you're a hypocrite, or, is that beyond your grasp?
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:24 AM GMT
    Logan has a insulin pump...Just FYI. As usual...another stupid Texan, exemplified to the n'th degree.

    Logan has leveraged a chronic disease into an asset. You should commend him.

    His HBA1C? 5.5.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:25 AM GMT
    haha, ive seen supersize me, and i dont eat fast food. sorry bud, i think your confused, or at least your confusing me.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:27 AM GMT
    It's "you're" as in you are. I'm afraid you're still showing us your ignorance (the possessive).

    I'm not hurt, but, if I keep one viewer of RJ from being as ignorant as you, I've done a VERY GOOD THING.

    Sucks to be you.

    You owe Logan an apology. I'm a big boy, and expect stuff like you do from infantile kids who are ignorant. I understand, you don't know any better.

    Your slander at me has no basis in fact. You don't know me, nor are you going, to.

    You're a classic "hater", who "hates" on a person's looks. It's typical small-minded stuff. Yet, you'd want me to not be prejudice against you. See how you are? A hypocrite of the worst kind, representing some of the worst traits of folks.

    Before you throw mud in my back yard, or Logan's, you need to get your facts straight, and educate yourself, then, figure out what good it's going to do you to "hate" on us, because it just shows how very ignorant you are.
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    Feb 09, 2010 1:34 AM GMT
    Daytona saidChucky said "Here in the U.S., it requires a prescription and is $108.25 at Wally World."

    Not true!
    Insulin is OTC. Syringes are prescription.

    Now back to the original question...


    You're wrong.

    In the U.S., slower insulin, Humilin-R (regular) is OTC. It takes 30 minutes until action; peaks in 90 minutes. In Canada, the newer, better, faster, insulin, Humalog, and Novalog, among a couple, is over the counter. In the U.S., however, Humalog is being milked, and DOES VERY MUCH, IN FACT, require a prescription. Humalog works in 10 minutes; peaks in 30 minutes. For a type 1 diabetic, that's the difference between a good day, with managed blood sugar, versus a roller coaster. Humalog is a neccessity for a type 1 diabetic who wants good control over his disease. Humilin-R / Novilin R is the older, harder to manage insulin. Feel free to call a drugstore near you to confirm that I'm correct.

    I hope you are now more fully informed.

    You should have done your research prior to running off at the mouth.

    I live with a diabetic all day, every day.

    You're also wrong about syringes being prescription. In most states, that's not true. It's usually at the discretion of the pharmacist. Of course, there's NO VALUE in anyone having dirty needles...NONE.

    I hope you'll be better informed moving forward. Do your homework, FIRST. You do a huge disservice to others when your spread misinformation.

    One thing I might add: Humalog, because it's faster, is much easier to manage, making it safer. If you take too much, it's easier to gobble down a piece of candy, or two. Humilin, though, is much more of a roller coaster, making it harder on anyone using it. Technology evolves. Keep folks from having clean syringes, or keeping them from having the better insulin, is typical exploitation of folks in this country. It only makes the problem worse.

    Finally, at 49 years old, and, as of my full cardiac workup in October, I'm considered at zero risk of a heart attack, and zero risk of a stroke. My cholesterol runs 130 to 160. My PSA is a .6. I routinely bring my heart rate to 190. My maximal rate for my age is 171. Can you say the same?

    Maybe you boys should clean up your own back yards before casting stones at a kid who battles every day with a chronic disease he did nothing to get?

    I have a name for you: assholes.
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    Feb 09, 2010 2:26 AM GMT
    Chucky - I've bought Humilin for my dog for years with out a prescription. So how am I wrong?

    Actually don't bother answering I have no interest in your reply.
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    Feb 09, 2010 2:46 AM GMT

    Under no circumstances should you inject insulin unless your pancreas is severely limited in it's ability to produce insulin. How do I know? I have been insulin dependent for 50 years. If you inject insulin, you may very well die before someone has brains enough to determine what you have done.
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    Feb 09, 2010 2:56 AM GMT
    Let me just say, as a type one diabetic myself, like flex89, its a lifestyle you're forced to lead. Insulin is the only treatment for this disease, and its not the easiest thing to manage.

    I'm kind of envious of the tight control that flex89 keeps - my HbA1C is currently at 6.3 - not the great 5.5 previously listed; and I too, use an insulin pump. Like flex89, I too, workout between 5-6 days a week and do my best to keep a balanced diet on a crazy work schedule.

    And to clarify the insulin OTC - Humulin and Novo are both available OTC. Humalog and Novalog are as well, but much more expensive. I'm on a managed prescription plan through my insurance company where, with the premium prescription rates, I'm still paying $30 a vial for 10cc. And syringes, are too, OTC - and again, based on the state, sold at the discretion of the pharmacist. When I was in school in Boston, the only way I would be able to purchase syringes without a prescription is when I purchased insulin at the same time. That's just how MA is. In RI, its not required to have a prescription.

    In the case of being a diabetic, using insulin isn't a choice, or a managed way to increase muscle development; its what we have to do to stay alive.
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    Feb 09, 2010 3:04 AM GMT
    Progress said
    flex89 saidThere's zero ways to keep insulin from being abused (if you can even call it abuse). You can't test for it, you can't prevent someone from getting their hands on it, and making the stuff a controlled substance only makes it much harder for diabetics to obtain it should they have a problem.

    I've already gotta fork out $108 for a ten day supply of the good insulin as it is: I don't need the goddamn cops breathing down my neck if I don't have a prescription for it.


    hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment




    Let me get this straight...you looked at Logan's pics and assumed that he is a steroid user? And that his physique is unbalanced? Oh, and he has a lack of knowledge about lifting? Really? icon_eek.gif That's what you bloody see?
    There is nothing about his physique that would even suggest that. He is very muscular, but certainly not an out of proportion guy. He has the muscular proportions that most people can even hope to attain.
    Yet you, who are what again?.....Oh yes.....
    Height: 6' 0''
    Weight: 173 lbs
    Waist: 32 inches
    Chest: 41 inches
    Arms: 14 inches

    Your chest is only 41" and you have 14" arms? I had those stats in when I wrestled in Secondary school at age 16! (And I was embarrassed then by them.)
    Why would you, with such a lack luster/small physique, criticise someone whom obviously knows what they are doing, and has a really brilliantly shaped physique?
    -Keith
    icon_evil.gif
    NB- I am in no way implying that I have a great physique by any means. I know my bloody physical short comings.
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    Feb 09, 2010 4:32 AM GMT
    MDCK99 saidLet me just say, as a type one diabetic myself, like flex89, its a lifestyle you're forced to lead. Insulin is the only treatment for this disease, and its not the easiest thing to manage.

    I'm kind of envious of the tight control that flex89 keeps - my HbA1C is currently at 6.3 - not the great 5.5 previously listed; and I too, use an insulin pump. Like flex89, I too, workout between 5-6 days a week and do my best to keep a balanced diet on a crazy work schedule.

    And to clarify the insulin OTC - Humulin and Novo are both available OTC. Humalog and Novalog are as well, but much more expensive. I'm on a managed prescription plan through my insurance company where, with the premium prescription rates, I'm still paying $30 a vial for 10cc. And syringes, are too, OTC - and again, based on the state, sold at the discretion of the pharmacist. When I was in school in Boston, the only way I would be able to purchase syringes without a prescription is when I purchased insulin at the same time. That's just how MA is. In RI, its not required to have a prescription.

    In the case of being a diabetic, using insulin isn't a choice, or a managed way to increase muscle development; its what we have to do to stay alive.


    Unless the law got changed in the last few weeks, Humalog requires a script in The States.

    Quoting a number of places I checked just now: "“Prescription required for orders placed from the USA”."

    Logan's HBA1C comes from exercise, food portions, and monitoring. Weight lifting has an amazing effect (as does HIIT) on blood sugar.

    Off topic: Type 2 diabetes, or insulin insensitivity, is nearly 100% preventable with as little as two HIIT sessions a week. Exercise changes SO MANY things.

    With regard to flex89: his dad was an Army Ranger. Logan swam in competitive swimming for four years, and has a well developed back (typically in a swimmer), and has been lifting since he was 14 (6 years). I think it's terrible that some ignorant guy in Houston, TX can be a hater to folks like he was. Logan is a trooper, and much more of a man than many here will ever be. One day, I asked "Do you ever get sick of having diabetes?" Without missing a beat, and with a smile, Logan said, "Beats chemotherapy." Personally, I find that very inspirational.

    "Progress" is anything but. He represents some of the worst things about Texans: ignorance, intolerance, and hate. Saying "hmm yeah, see this is a good example of a roider/insulin pumper. imbalanced muscle formation... probably due to a lack of lifting knowledge prior to turning to drug enhancment" Obviously, Logan knows much better than "Progess" how to get it done. He would do well to learn a few things from Logan.
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    Feb 09, 2010 4:52 AM GMT
    Daytona saidChucky - I've bought Humilin for my dog for years with out a prescription. So how am I wrong?

    Actually don't bother answering I have no interest in your reply.


    Humilin is OTC in the U.S. Humalog is OTC in Canada. Humalog is script required in the U.S. Same thing with Novolog. They're just made by different vendors. Canada has the faster acting Humalog / Novalog as OTC. In the U.S. Humalog is still being milked for vast amounts of money. Canada put a stop to that.

    It's that you're not informed about the various synthetic insulin compounds, and don't know any better.

    Had you studied this, you'd realize there are bunches of different compounds. Some that are mixtures of fast acting and slower acting compounds. Some, like Humalog, that work in as little as ten minutes. You failed to study it. You took a crappy attitude. It's very unbecoming.

    Humalog, because of its fast action (10 minutes to work, and peaking in 30 minutes) is preferred by many diabetics, and is safer, and easier to manage. Humilin-R (what you've been buying) takes 30 minutes to work and peaks in 90 minutes, which makes it much more difficult to manage, and not the medication of first choice.

    Walgreens online carries 14 different insulin compounds, of which only "regular" (the R version) of insulin is over the counter. Sorry that you're still having trouble. You've been lacking attention to detail. Humalog, and Humilin-R are completely different in their time to action, and time to peak.
  • denverdev

    Posts: 82

    Feb 09, 2010 5:06 AM GMT
    Question to the insulin injectors on this thread who think that {everyone here who is afraid that doing such things can be dangerous to a naturally healthy body} is a complete moron who shouldn't be breathing and how dare they even ask such a thing on a nutrition discussion board: why isn't the insulin that your pancreas naturally produces enough? Also, does the hostility come with the huge body or with years of practice?