DO YOU BELIEVE IN GHOSTS? A Haunted Church?

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 11, 2010 3:35 PM GMT
    I serve on the board for a gay men's singing organization here in Wichita and
    on my plate for the year is heading our annual garage sale events.

    It was suggested we hold the April event in a large church, built in the mid 20's that isn't used anymore, hasn't for 20 years. I was told it has a large dining hall in the lower level of the facility with close proximity to the parking lot. So several of us did a site visit last night.

    Its a huge place. The couple that nows owns the facility is starting renovation processes to restore it to its glory from the 20's.. but its still beginning and as we toured the church, the woman who now owns it told us about some of the experiences she and her husband (who she emphasized has a PHD in Physics) have had with the work. She proclaimed that the church is haunted and talked about some of what they (and others in their presence have witnessed). Some is now caught on tape and recordings.

    From the santuary (which seats 750), including the balconies, she told of
    seeing "shadows" of walking people and sounds, shrieks from the old childcare rooms (which could be heard throughout the church), doors moving, etc. We were barred from one small room because of the "feeling you receive when you go in there" and the worry that the door would shut behind you.. and its very heavy.

    It was like some kind of story you'd read or watch on TV. The caretaker
    that resides in an apartment on one of the 4 stories, staircases everywhere (literally, they were all over the place), organs, pianos sitting around, dust,
    and lighting that didn't work in parts of the church.

    Let me say that I am an open minded person. There are many things we don't see (with the naked eye), but know exist. I tend to approach ghost stories with some doubt, but as she explained what has happened, in the presence of others (and what they plan to do about it), it did make me wonder. Nothing happened as we moved about the church, btw.

    So whats your take on this sort of thing? Are you a believer in ghosts?
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    Feb 11, 2010 3:46 PM GMT
    casper.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 11, 2010 4:06 PM GMT
    They'd better be friendly!

    icon_evil.gif

    LOL
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    Feb 11, 2010 5:11 PM GMT
    Ghosts almost certainly do not exist. It's amazing how otherwise very intelligent people can so easily tricked by their own mind. More yet, they are all too willing to believe it without hard scientific evidence.

    Due to the lack of objective evidence, one of the most convincing arguments is that borne out of personal experience. After all, how can you disagree with somebody who has seen the phenomenon first hand? Given a moment of thought, anybody will quickly realize the absurdity of the question. Many serial killers thought they heard voices commanding them to kill. Asylums are full of individuals that think the world is conspiring against them. Now, I’m not claiming that believers in ghosts are delusional and belong in a mental institution – I am demonstrating that the brain is indeed capable of constructing reality as we perceive it. While it is true that your eyes and ears objectively pick up information, your brain subjectively interprets this raw data into what you perceive as hearing and seeing. Humans sense with their brain, and do not receive a faithful reproduction of what is really there. Optical illusions are a prime example of the power the brain has to influence our senses.

    It’s human nature to seek answers to complex questions; however, a person cannot simply fill a gap in knowledge with an alternative conclusion without relevant evidence. Such hasty generalizations are never objectively valid.
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    Feb 11, 2010 5:16 PM GMT
    woooooooooo
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    Feb 11, 2010 5:24 PM GMT
    Pianist said

    It’s human nature to seek answers to complex questions; however, a person cannot simply fill a gap in knowledge with an alternative conclusion without relevant evidence. Such hasty generalizations are never objectively valid.



    And yet, how many millions of people on the planet believe that a carpenter from Nazareth was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven, and is likely to return to Earth sometime in the future?

    By definition, aren't ALL churches haunted -- technically speaking -- by the holy spirit?

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    Feb 11, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    Pianist said

    It’s human nature to seek answers to complex questions; however, a person cannot simply fill a gap in knowledge with an alternative conclusion without relevant evidence. Such hasty generalizations are never objectively valid.



    And yet, how many millions of people on the planet believe that a carpenter from Nazareth was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven, and is likely to return to Earth sometime in the future?

    By definition, aren't ALL churches haunted -- technically speaking -- by the holy spirit?


    I wasn't going to go there, but yes. Ghosts are almost as silly as religion. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
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    Feb 11, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
    Go into the room and let the door shut behind you.
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    Feb 11, 2010 5:30 PM GMT
    Sorry, didn't mean to do this.

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    Feb 11, 2010 6:02 PM GMT
    I wonder if ghosts believe in people icon_eek.gif
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:14 PM GMT
    You know, here's my dilemma on ghosts and the paranormal, and on science in general:

    I tend to be a logical, rational person. I believe facts, and use concrete evidence to make decisions based on objective thinking and logical reasoning. I think that science is a blessing, enabling us to be a more productive, advanced society.

    BUT, the romantic part of me secretly detests science and my own objectivity. Science is really ruining any imagination people may have. There's no proof for Atlantis, there's no proof for the Loch Ness Monster, there's no proof on the existence of ghosts blah blah blah blah blah. I hate living in the grey and bland world of scientific reasoning, this sterile field where methodical research is the mode of choice, where imagination is shunned and where there can be no truth without proof.

    So I rebel, quietly, against the scientific world. I find joy in knowing that science will never be able to explain what inspires my art; why I take pleasure in the smell of sawdust and fresh grass. I defy science to rationalize the thrill I feel every time I begin a journey, dissect my heartbreaks, and objectify beauty.

    By day, I am rational. I am impartial, I am skeptical. But, in the secret recesses of my mind, and in the dark corners of my soul, my last haven against the continual assault of science, I let myself believe that ghosts could be real, that God is in the rain, that nature speaks to me, because if I don't have that outlet of rebellion against the onslaught of stale reason and boring objectivity, the world would cease to be a beautiful place, and I would probably go utterly insane.
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:19 PM GMT
    HotToddy saidYou know, here's my dilemma on ghosts and the paranormal, and on science in general:

    I tend to be a logical, rational person. I believe facts, and use concrete evidence to make decisions based on objective thinking and logical reasoning. I think that science is a blessing, enabling us to be a more productive, advanced society.

    BUT, the romantic part of me secretly detests science and my own objectivity. Science is really ruining any imagination people may have. There's no proof for Atlantis, there's no proof for the Loch Ness Monster, there's no proof on the existence of ghosts blah blah blah blah blah. I hate living in the grey and bland world of scientific reasoning, this sterile field where methodical research is the mode of choice, where imagination is shunned and where there can be no truth without proof.

    So I rebel, quietly, against the scientific world. I find joy in knowing that science will never be able to explain what inspires my art; why I take pleasure in the smell of sawdust and fresh grass. I defy science to rationalize the thrill I feel every time I begin a journey, dissect my heartbreaks, and objectify beauty.

    By day, I am rational. I am impartial, I am skeptical. But, in the secret recesses of my mind, and in the dark corners of my soul, my last haven against the continual assault of science, I let myself believe that ghosts could be real, that God is in the rain, that nature speaks to me, because if I don't have that outlet of rebellion against the onslaught of stale reason and boring objectivity, the world would cease to be a beautiful place, and I would probably go utterly insane.


    This is why the world will always need both types of people. We would all be much less fortunate without eachother.
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:22 PM GMT
    I cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:25 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:27 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif

    oh believe, djdorkchester
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Feb 11, 2010 6:41 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    By definition, aren't ALL churches haunted -- technically speaking -- by the holy spirit?


    No. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a different phenomenon.
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:41 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif

    oh believe, djdorkchester



    Name calling is the best you've got? You're waaaaaaaaaay too old for kindergarten!



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    Feb 11, 2010 6:42 PM GMT
    Anto said
    djdorchester said
    By definition, aren't ALL churches haunted -- technically speaking -- by the holy spirit?


    No. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a different phenomenon.



    I was being sarcastic.

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    Feb 11, 2010 6:49 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif

    oh believe, djdorkchester



    Name calling is the best you've got? You're waaaaaaaaaay too old for kindergarten!

    No, djdorkchester really fits you to a tee.

    And as far as being waaaaay too old, at least I made it to this age. There is no guarantee that you will. ... icon_wink.gif

    BTW, glad to see you took my advice and changed your pic when I mentioned it. ... icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:55 PM GMT
    I want to see this church! I say we have a RJ sleep over in this church.
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    Feb 11, 2010 6:56 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif

    oh believe, djdorkchester



    Name calling is the best you've got? You're waaaaaaaaaay too old for kindergarten!

    No, djdorkchester really fits you to a tee.

    And as far as being waaaaay too old, at least I made it to this age. There is no guarantee that you will. ... icon_wink.gif

    BTW, glad to see you took my advice and changed your pic when I mentioned it. ... icon_lol.gif



    You're one silly old man. Luckily, I try to be kind to the elderly so I'll leave the insulting to you. Have fun.
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    Feb 11, 2010 7:19 PM GMT
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 said
    djdorchester said
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    I can't believe people post in threads they think are stupid, saying nothing except "this thread is stupid." icon_rolleyes.gif

    oh believe, djdorkchester



    Name calling is the best you've got? You're waaaaaaaaaay too old for kindergarten!

    No, djdorkchester really fits you to a tee.

    And as far as being waaaaay too old, at least I made it to this age. There is no guarantee that you will. ... icon_wink.gif

    BTW, glad to see you took my advice and changed your pic when I mentioned it. ... icon_lol.gif



    You're one silly old man. Luckily, I try to be kind to the elderly so I'll leave the insulting to you. Have fun.

    ummm.... you are the one who retorted to me. If you wanted to leave things alone, that would have been the time to STFU, not try to play the chaste maiden now. ... icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Feb 11, 2010 8:24 PM GMT
    I was being sarcastic.

    I know! icon_razz.gif

    HndsmKansan,

    The problem I have with ghosts is that it seems more like things people want or hope to see.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 11, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 saidI cant believe members start such stupid threads....ghosts, werewolves...really! ... icon_rolleyes.gif



    Perhaps your right... cat..toons make far more sense

    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 11, 2010 9:46 PM GMT
    Anto said
    djdorchester said
    By definition, aren't ALL churches haunted -- technically speaking -- by the holy spirit?


    No. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a different phenomenon.


    Right- it's called fiction.