Plane CRASHER Joseph Stack's note a MUST READ

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    Feb 18, 2010 7:53 PM GMT
    People have to stop acting like they don't care what someone who does what he did wrote. To be honest, he has a point in many of the things he says. Similar stuff has been written here. He could be the guy working next to you. Or the guy you screwed over through your company. Think about it.

    In one documentary they talked about how the French bring about change is through revolt. Peaceful of course, but persistent. Imagine what would happen if everyone who has Kaiser Permanente heatlh care insurance refused to pay their next month's premium unless the company cut their premiums by 50%.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/18/stack.letter.pdf
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:06 PM GMT
    OK, here is the problem right now on the news. They show a few lines from this manifesto he wrote, ones that make him seem ill, then go back to eyewitnesses who can SENSATIONALIZE what they saw when the plane crashed.

    This IS the problem. This is no more than a real person with anger and problems. They need to stop turning these types of people into demons and start working on the root cause of this. If you want to prevent it, you don't turn this unfortunate incident into a made-for-TV horror fest.
  • DCEric

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    Feb 18, 2010 8:10 PM GMT
    Why not? It's what will sell. The free market at work.

    /Did I say something wrong? Should I not have done that?
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:11 PM GMT
    DCEric saidWhy not? It's what will sell. The free market at work.

    /Did I say something wrong? Should I not have done that?


    What will sell is not good for the country, and it will only cause it to happen again.
  • DCEric

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    Feb 18, 2010 8:18 PM GMT
    (I was being sarcastic... or pessimistic)
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:19 PM GMT
    at last , he blamed Bush and his croonies
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:27 PM GMT
    wrestlervic -
    Are you kidding? You're defending this guy as a "real person with anger and problems"?
    Shall we just say that about the 9-11 terrorists who murdered thousands of innocent Americans too?
    He's a selfish, monstrous, murderer just like the 9-11 monsters.
    I don't care what his problems were, you don't fly a plane into a building with people inside.
    That's just evil, no matter who does it, or how you spin it.
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:30 PM GMT
    rickrick91 saidwrestlervic -
    Are you kidding? You're defending this guy as a "real person with anger and problems"?
    Shall we just say that about the 9-11 terrorists who murdered thousands of innocent Americans too?
    He's a selfish, monstrous, murderer just like the 9-11 monsters.
    I don't care what his problems were, you don't fly a plane into a building with people inside.
    That's just evil, no matter who does it, or how you spin it.


    He IS a real person, and demonizing someone and looking the other way does not solve the root issue. Just like the Columbine kids. Realizing they are people whose problems pushed them to the limit helps us recognize what we can do to prevent it.
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:32 PM GMT
    Wow man pushed over the edge.
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:44 PM GMT
    wrestlervic -
    making excuses for this murderer does not "solve the root issue" either.
    And if you think what he did will solve anything - NO WAY.

    We as a society must make it clear that what this guy did is unacceptable, no matter what his problems were.
    How would you like it if you, (or a loved one), were sitting at your desk doing your job, making a living, only to have your life taken away in an instant by some crazed, selfish, hate-filled murderer flying his plane into the building you were in?
    And then to have people say that what happened was justified?
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    Feb 18, 2010 8:55 PM GMT
    rickrick91 saidwrestlervic -
    making excuses for this murderer does not "solve the root issue" either.
    And if you think what he did will solve anything - NO WAY.

    We as a society must make it clear that what this guy did is unacceptable, no matter what his problems were.
    How would you like it if you, (or a loved one), were sitting at your desk doing your job, making a living, only to have your life taken away in an instant by some crazed, selfish, hate-filled murderer flying his plane into the building you were in?
    And then to have people say that what happened was justified?


    Are you that stupid to think that me saying not to demonize him means I am saying he had every right to do what he did? Good lord, get a head on that headless torso of yours.

    Here is the problem. What did the IRS do to him? How did they go about trying to get money from him? Did they talk to him in a manner of "Look, we are going to take your home, your savings, everything if you don't do what we say," or did they say "We will make a payment plan and work with you."

    If they did the former, they are only inciting the innate human response of fight or flight. And that will crack some people who are desparate. Have you ever heard how credit card collectors talk to some people? Some have been known to threaten people's lives to get money. That is why they are trying to crack down on these agencies.

    Hopelessness is a bad feeling, and when institutions make it worse, some are going to crack and take revenge. In many ways, they incited it.

    We will hopefully know more as this story unfolds.
  • jingold04

    Posts: 122

    Feb 18, 2010 9:38 PM GMT
    Collection agents are pretty miserable,when I worked for Amex in 1991,the collection's department was the only deparment allowed to smoke AT THEIR DESKS! All the agents I ever met were surly,if they (the agents themselves) even allowed you to meet them in the first place. Most just avoided contact with everyone and ate lunch with each other or by themselves.
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    Feb 18, 2010 9:39 PM GMT
    all i want to know is when do we start profiling white guys who own private planes.
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    Feb 18, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
    That is a tragic letter.

    And yes, when people do not feel they're current modes of dialogue between themselves and their government are good enough, let alone corrupt, then they have a propensity to take matters into their own hands.

    No one will agree with what he did but everyone should understand why he did it.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 18, 2010 10:57 PM GMT
    No one will agree with what he did but everyone should understand why he did it.

    Why? because someone has a beef with the IRS they can slam a single engine plane into a building and send two people to a burn unit and kill one other person?
    Because someone has a beef with the Dept of tobacco and firearms they can send a pipe bomb in the mail

    Because someone feels left out of the census they can walk into the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and blow themselves up?

    Are you kidding me man?

    Do you not hear yourself? The man was a domestic terrorist
    Just like Timothy McVey
    and ANY attempt at listening to what he had to say makes the people he murdered and hurt die and sit in pain for nothing
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:07 PM GMT
    He will not be the last to do this. Before the man comes to blame external influences, he has internal issues that make him suicidal. Combine that with a distorted view of reality and you've got a suicide bomber. He was a suicidal man who believed he had a cause. When non-suicidal people believe they have a cause, they work toward some goal in relation to it, they don't kill themselves over it. The flood of antidepressants in the U.S. speaks to the idea that there are a lot of depressed and so probably more than just a few suicidal people here. Give them a reason to make their suicide spectacular, and they will. Not that the U.S. has a monopoly. When self preservation goes out the window, all bets are off. I'll bet we see this kind of thing once or twice more in the next decade.
  • jlly_rnchr

    Posts: 1759

    Feb 18, 2010 11:32 PM GMT
    Yikes. I only read the first page and a half, but it's not the crazy talk I was expecting. Some of his points are things I've probably said in the past (healthcare, exemptions, bailouts).
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIf there was such a thing as a moderator on RJ, that person would have consolidated the (currently 3) topics on this subject into a single thread so everyone doesn't have to go hunting in 3 different places to see what others in the dysfunctional RJ family think about this.

    I propose you all do your posting on this thread:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/837623/


    lol_cat-12926.jpg
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:49 PM GMT
    GQjock saidNo one will agree with what he did but everyone should understand why he did it.

    Why? because someone has a beef with the IRS they can slam a single engine plane into a building and send two people to a burn unit and kill one other person?
    Because someone has a beef with the Dept of tobacco and firearms they can send a pipe bomb in the mail

    Because someone feels left out of the census they can walk into the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and blow themselves up?

    Are you kidding me man?

    Do you not hear yourself? The man was a domestic terrorist
    Just like Timothy McVey
    and ANY attempt at listening to what he had to say makes the people he murdered and hurt die and sit in pain for nothing


    There was nothing wrong with what I said. No one is agreeing to what he did by just understanding his reasons.
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:52 PM GMT
    I agree that it's necessary to understand this man's reasoning. It's very necessary. It is impossible to correct someone when you don't pay attention to what he's doing wrong. You can discipline him, but you can't correct him.
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:54 PM GMT
    This Plane Crasher won't be the last.

    Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh will create new ones to follow him.

    His suicide-protest manifesto was pure Tea Party Doctrine.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:54 PM GMT
    And isn't this similar to understanding the reasons of the nineteen in New York?

    Yes: bat shit crazy. But also yes: US presence in the Middle East has tended to piss off the locals.

    No one says they were right, but looking at their reasons you can see why they felt this had to be done.

    If we do not reconcile just why these things happen then we will be forced to reckon with those consequences.
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    Feb 18, 2010 11:55 PM GMT
    You all have a valid point of view. This is a tragic event. As tragic as the world trade center because of the anger and revenge involved.

    There is a continued growth of "sensationalism" in our global community. We all thrive on it to some point and the press is not to blame because "we the people" continue to thrive on it. To one point or another we are all victims of how we are treated. Its in our response that can make a difference.

    It doesn't matter what the IRS did or did't do. What matters is how we respond to situations in our lives and how we handle them.
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    Feb 19, 2010 12:37 AM GMT
    LikeableGuy saidThis Plane Crasher won't be the last.

    Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh will create new ones to follow him.

    His suicide-protest manifesto was pure Tea Party Doctrine.

    I wonder about that myself. There are always unstable personalities out there, and inflammatory rhetoric and wild claims can serve to tip the balance with the already unstable. Not a healthy or safe political climate in which we currently live.
  • jlly_rnchr

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    Feb 19, 2010 12:40 AM GMT
    LikeableGuy saidThis Plane Crasher won't be the last.

    Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh will create new ones to follow him.

    His suicide-protest manifesto was pure Tea Party Doctrine.


    I think his rant had complaints for both sides of the political spectrum, unlike Mr. Beck or Limbaugh.