Holland retreating from Uruzgan... or not?

  • Nayro

    Posts: 1825

    Feb 20, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Compared to The USA holland does not have that many troops in Afghanistan ofcourse but relatively it does have a lot there.
    The Dutch government collapsed yesterday couse the 3 parties that are in the coalition could not agree on if the Dutch troops should stay or not.
    We have 2000 people there. What is your opinion? Should the countries that are in Afghanistan atm stay there or find another solution?
  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Feb 21, 2010 2:35 AM GMT
    i was going to school in amsterdam in 2002/2003 when the government fell apart then, too... and yet, i still dont understand how that works.

    anyway if the country wants to pull out their troops, what's the big deal? probably would make things more peaceful in NL
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    Feb 21, 2010 2:55 AM GMT
    I'm sure a European member can comment better but government collapsing over there only means enough of the sitting government who vote on things decide to walk out in protest. Without enough sitting members the government can't make decisions because it lacks votes. Instead of a majority % of votes like we do in the US they need set numbers of votes.
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Feb 21, 2010 3:17 AM GMT
    ATC84 saidI'm sure a European member can comment better but government collapsing over there only means enough of the sitting government who vote on things decide to walk out in protest. Without enough sitting members the government can't make decisions because it lacks votes. Instead of a majority % of votes like we do in the US they need set numbers of votes.


    lol the set number of votes is - a majority of votes (or more)
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 21, 2010 5:00 AM GMT
    My unit is currently working alongside the dutch at Tarin Kowt.

    I don't know what the effects of Holland's government/politics are on their situation right now.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Feb 21, 2010 5:08 AM GMT
    Niceguy89 saidCompared to The USA holland does not have that many troops in Afghanistan ofcourse but relatively it does have a lot there.
    The Dutch government collapsed yesterday couse the 3 parties that are in the coalition could not agree on if the Dutch troops should stay or not.
    We have 2000 people there. What is your opinion? Should the countries that are in Afghanistan atm stay there or find another solution?



    What exactly would that "other solution" be -- the U.S. going it alone? Every NATO country should have troops there helping in the effort to win this swiftly and put it behind us.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 21, 2010 1:10 PM GMT
    I agree. NATO countries signed on to a commitment to support each other. They can't just sit back on the sidelines and only enjoy the economic benefits of being a NATO country.
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    Feb 21, 2010 1:28 PM GMT
    Hmmmm.

    Afganistan was a hopeless war (look at all the other military operations there, Britain in the C19, Russia in the 1980s), though it was a lot more justified than the Iraq invasion... I have no answers... history has shown that only western powers that are prepared to remain indefinitely can actually change non western societies (e.g. britain in India), though of course change is not always improvement. A short term commitment (measured in years, not even to mention months, rather than generations) simply will not work. Did we ever have a clear idea of what we wanted to achieve and a realistic appraisal of what it would cost?
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Feb 21, 2010 1:50 PM GMT
    I agree with Lost Boy: the goals of the invasion of Afghanistan were never clearly articulated or planned out (I mean beyond exacting a pound of flesh for harboring the terrorists responsible for 9-11). And then the (non-critical thinking) public was intentionally manipulated and deceived by the Bush Administration regarding Iraq.

    Now we are considering a policy of accommodating some segments of the Taliban... some of the very ones responsible for dragging Afghanistan back to the Middle Ages in the 1980s (also with American support, btw).

    It doesn't seem to me that any of the longer-term implications were thought out ahead of time, and anyone who dared raise a hand to question the rashness of the invasions of both countries was shouted down as a traitor.

  • Nayro

    Posts: 1825

    Feb 21, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Niceguy89 saidCompared to The USA holland does not have that many troops in Afghanistan ofcourse but relatively it does have a lot there.
    The Dutch government collapsed yesterday couse the 3 parties that are in the coalition could not agree on if the Dutch troops should stay or not.
    We have 2000 people there. What is your opinion? Should the countries that are in Afghanistan atm stay there or find another solution?



    What exactly would that "other solution" be -- the U.S. going it alone? Every NATO country should have troops there helping in the effort to win this swiftly and put it behind us.


    I dont know what the other solution would be, thats why im throwing it out there. I don't know everrything thats going on in the politics but our government collapsed because one of the 3 parties said that a couple of years ago the decision was made for holland to leave Afghanistan and now the other 2 parties dont follow up on that. They could not sort it out and collapsed.... Now lots of other things that they were working on is delayed aswell. Kinda sux... I think Holland is just the first country of many that has these big political problems in Europe over the Uruzgan topic.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Feb 22, 2010 6:01 PM GMT
    One thing is for sure, if God forbid any country should attack Holland, who do you think they are going to look to for help? If a country expects to get help when in need, they should be willing to help when needed.
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Feb 22, 2010 6:21 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidOne thing is for sure, if God forbid any country should attack Holland, who do you think they are going to look to for help? If a country expects to get help when in need, they should be willing to help when needed.


    If they needed help i would presume they would look to their neighbours the u.k and france etc.
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    Feb 22, 2010 7:25 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidOne thing is for sure, if God forbid any country should attack Holland, who do you think they are going to look to for help? If a country expects to get help when in need, they should be willing to help when needed.


    Help do what? This is just my point again: what do we really expect to achieve and what is the cost going to be in financial and human terms? Are you envisaging an occupation of a generation? Two generations? Any less and the USA really may as well just leave now.
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    Feb 22, 2010 7:28 PM GMT
    Holland has troops?!?!
  • Nayro

    Posts: 1825

    Feb 22, 2010 9:42 PM GMT
    Brit_Bloke saidHolland has troops?!?!

    Uk has troops? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 22, 2010 9:49 PM GMT
    there is no other solution,the european countries prefer to bury they heads in the sand and not see what going on, they will have to fight the talibam in their own territory in the end.
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    Feb 22, 2010 9:55 PM GMT
    Honestly...the Europeans need to deal with the threat of Radical Islam (notice usage of Radical) if they want to maintain their liberal democracies. But then again due to immigration, the transition has begun anyhow...
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Feb 23, 2010 1:37 AM GMT
    agri_sci saidHonestly...the Europeans need to deal with the threat of Radical Islam (notice usage of Radical) if they want to maintain their liberal democracies. But then again due to immigration, the transition has begun anyhow...


    very true but no-one can mention that lest they be called racist!