Sexual Orientation not Sexual Compulsion

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:08 AM GMT
    I am so sick of so many things LGBT being tied to sex. I think sexuality should be celebrated and should not be hidden but not everything is about sex. There are so many aspects to gay life and so many areas it intersects with, politics, social life, religion, psychology, etc. I know many people have my viewpoint and call themselves "masculine" or "non-scene" or "str8 acting" or some go as far as to say they are "normal". These labels imply something greater, that the gay community is so heavily dominated by this concept of sex, drugs, promiscuity, drama, and disease. That is what most straight people think of when they think of gay people. Why did the gay community become so influenced and so caught up in this way of life?

    I honestly feel like people like myself who are regular nice guys almost get shunned. Many gays will treat us like we are closeted, and prude. Just because we don't flaunt our sexuality, or post naked pictures of ourselves does not mean we are uncomfortable with our sexuality. Why do I even have to defend myself? How ridiculous. I have a boyfriend now who I really like but when I was looking. I remember being in a gay.com chat and said I was looking for someone interested in dating/relationships. I got so much flack from the chatroom. How dare I come in there not looking for anonymous unprotected sex? Where are the other gay people who are sick of this and when can we band together and reclaim our sanity?

    I am sorry to be on my soapbox but this is just depressing and frustrating. I am not looking to condemn anyone by any means. I don't care if you do want to have sex with multiple partners, that is your choice. I just wish that your choice did not define what gay is. It seems everything gay caters to promiscuity, fetishes, and drugs. I am not interested in any of the above, and I deserve some recognition too. Even an ad I saw for the unitarian church uses sex as a marketing tool for gays "Flex your spiritual muscle" not everything is about sex and male body parts. It is so hard to find gay sites that don't have nasty porn on the side when all you wanna do is chat with friends, look for dates, read some news. I really don't need to see Sean Cody naked, thank you. If I wanted to I would google gay porn or go on XTube.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:11 AM GMT
    First of all let's talk about your gambling problem!
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jan 17, 2008 12:33 AM GMT
    Estrogen free environment.

    Marketers use the female form to sell anything and everything, because men (all of us) are genetically predisposed to think about, want, need, seek out SEX almost constantly. Marketers targeting gay men will naturally use the male form because it get our juices flowing. Mind you, this is a genetic impulse, not actually something we have to act on.

    There are some that say (and I agree about 90%) that the absence of women in gay men's relationships eliminates a major stabilizing influence on our sex drive. In purely biological terms, the male wants to have as much sex with as many partners as possible in order to spread his genes. The female, conversely, wants to choose a partner carefully based on his perceived ability to protect and care for her offspring, also thereby perserving genetic lines. Removing women from this mix has the somewhat predictable result of an entire subculture of sexual freedom, even though we gay men are not spreading any genes at all.

    Again, we don't have to succumb to this urge, but there is little in our culture that encourages us to be a little more chaste than we are.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:37 AM GMT
    It is a two sided sword. Many people who are nice guys like as you have described are also quick to condemn others because they are more open and free with nudity and intimate affairs. Why should those who are more free have to defend themselves? Why must everyone who is more sexually free be lumped in with drugs, drama, and disease and even promiscuity?

    Being more open to nudity doesn't in any way confer promiscuity. Nor should all of these things be lumped together.

    To be bluntly honest, the majority of drama that I witness comes from the "prude" crowd.

    I get annoyed by people that think I'm a slut because I have a lusty photo of my ass up. I also get annoyed because people think I'm a prude when I don't put out.

    The only thing defining "gay" are the current fashionable trends and stereotypes which are presented to the media who like lap dogs dutifully spread it around.

    You have to consider what gets attention and air time. The fiscally responsible gay couple with 2.3 kids and a white picket fence or the dramamegaphoneflamingqueenonstagewith3lbsofmascara?

    Normal isn't news. Loud and flashy is.

    Your photo is of a casino. Should we immediately think Vegas; whores by the dozen and drugs by the dime? What do you see on TV about Vegas other than shows centering around money, drugs, and sex?

    I've been to Vegas, there's a whole lot more to it but that's not news ;)
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:39 AM GMT
    jarhead5536 said
    In purely biological terms, the male wants to have as much sex with as many partners as possible in order to spread his genes.


    I disagree, I mean there are so many people I know straight and gay who seriously only want to have sex in a relationship with someone they care about. Sex with just anyone is a repulsive idea to many people. Conversely there are many males and females who wanna go out and fuck as much as possible. But these are not the only kind of males or females that exist.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:44 AM GMT
    firefighter just because someone doesn't want to see dildo ads when they check out a gay news site or go to chat and be bombarded with messages asking if you are "lookin" does not make you "not free" I personally love the nude beach, love freedom. But I also would like to not have gay being constantly linked to sex 24/7. There is a time and place for that and it should be embraced in its appropriate settings.

    also my picture at a slot machine is a poor generalization to make. if all my pictures were of me at slots and all i talked about was gambling than you'd have a better case. the fact is the majority of the gay community is dominated by sex. I understand sexual minorities main theme of difference is based on sex and gender but our lives are not solely about sex and gender.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:47 AM GMT
    men want sex men think sex yes we can think about other things but get over it men in general are sexual creatures. Not just gay men. You ever notice the scantilly clad women in beer commercials or the sports illustrated models? It's just male human nature.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:49 AM GMT
    hippie, Is it any different from a heterosexual world which is bombarded by sexual innuendo, advertising, objectifying, etc?

    I rather feel the gay world is subjected to far less since you have to go looking for it to find it. You're not likely to find a billboard with two hot guys in sexy revealing underwear very often. But it's hard to miss all the ladies in -very- thin and lacking lingerie almost everywhere from gardening magazines to home health catalogs to Macy's billboard to the taxi stand you're waiting in.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:52 AM GMT
    not everyone is drawn to everything sex sex sex. i know many people who cant stand that everything gay is regarding as being sexual. i steer clear from companies that advertise to the gay community in a sexual fashion, i feel degraded as a person when they do that. do they think a shirtless hunk will make me and a partner open a bank account? hell no. saying what u do for the community and showing a couple together, now we are talking. that shows respect and understanding of gays beyond sexual terms.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:52 AM GMT
    p.s. the whole world is dominated by sex, either the indulgence or the anti-indulgence.

    and (*hides*) I always run ad blockers so I think my online experience is probably incredibly more serene and enjoyable than yours.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:54 AM GMT
    firefighter i agree that sex sells and society at large is bombarded with sex.

    but most hetero dating sites wont ask me to check off which fetishes im into. most hetero news sites will not advertise dildos. most hetero churches will not show 2 guys making out to advertise people coming to their church. i mean come on.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:54 AM GMT
    I don't see everything gay related to sex, far from it actually. As to the shirtless hunk, again it has nothing to do specifically for "gay" - sex sells and there is NO denying -that-
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    Jan 17, 2008 12:57 AM GMT
    Most gay websites I'm on don't have any fetish things either and I honestly don't know if they have ads for dildos on either since I block them. The gay supportive churches I have seen never have two guys making out for an advertisement.

    I think you're over dramatizing things or you've picked very sexually oriented gay social sites.
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    Jan 17, 2008 1:00 AM GMT
    I really dont think so firefighter, i really try to keep myself on non-sexually oriented sites like this one. and realjock is great, its a gay site with a gay theme and fitness theme but not about sex. sure sex is discussed and thats great but its not only sex. and no gross ads.
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    Jan 17, 2008 4:08 AM GMT
    I am a little confused. Is this Thread about gay culture being more then sex, or gays who only want sex?

    I will try to answer both so you can pick and choose like Christians. Haha. Keep in mind that I am naïve.

    I guess sex is all there is to being gay. After all being gay means you have sex with men, not if you wear tight pants and pink scarves. People say that there is a “gay scene,” but that is embarrassing. Like you said hippie it is full of sex, drugs, promiscuity, drama, and disease. I think, and hope, that there are many different types of gays. I think it is just hard to find them because the only gay-dar that exists picks up fairies only. There seems to be a lot of men who say they are "masculine" or "non-scene" or "str8 acting,” but how would we know?

    So being gay is not a culture, it is a sexuality. I am gay because I like men. The guy with the lisp who wears designers and swishes when he walks, is not gay because of the cultural trends (but he most likely is gay).

    I don’t under stand when you say “I think sexuality should be celebrated and should not be hidden but not everything is about sex. There are so many aspects to gay life and so many areas it intersects with, politics, social life, religion, psychology, etc.”

    Gays are all over the place when it comes to politics, social life, religion, psychology and everything else. We are humans and we have different ideas and thoughts. To classify every gay as liberal is not correct. There are plenty of gays that are republican (I don’t understand why though).

    I never understood the whole “gay community” or “gay scene.” There are a few gays that are into of sex, drugs, promiscuity, drama, and disease, but that is what the media focuses on. As much as we would like to think that the majority has the say so, really it is the loudest. The scene is an ugly concept, but it is like one of those ugly people in Wal Mart, you can’t help but stare. You don’t notice all the average Wal Mart ulgies walking by because you are focusing on the biggest and most ugly creature you have ever seen. Gays will never be known as hikers or sport players to the general world. They will always be the fairy queens. I wish it was not true, but it seems to be.

    Now if the thread was about guys who just want sex as much as possible without safety or and consideration of the other persons name, then this is my response and forget about the junk above.

    I hate them. That is dirty. Teacher told me to never talk to stranger let alone play with willies in the bathroom.

    Seriously, I hate that too.
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    Jan 17, 2008 4:13 AM GMT
    Most often you are raised as your own gender, blue walls and footballs and its cute to chase the girls and its weird to chase the boys...when you realize your orientation, chemically you are being wired for sex. This is usually or what I assume to be the reason why sex is the focus of our new lives that we have to reassociate our whole selves to.
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    Jan 17, 2008 4:14 AM GMT
    Indeed, never play with strange willies. Always make friends and introductions first. Bobs are sometimes better than willies.
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    Jan 17, 2008 4:28 AM GMT
    hippie4lyfe saidI honestly feel like people like myself who are regular nice guys almost get shunned. Many gays will treat us like we are closeted, and prude. Just because we don't flaunt our sexuality, or post naked pictures of ourselves does not mean we are uncomfortable with our sexuality. Why do I even have to defend myself? How ridiculous. I have a boyfriend now who I really like but when I was looking. I remember being in a gay.com chat and said I was looking for someone interested in dating/relationships. I got so much flack from the chatroom. How dare I come in there not looking for anonymous unprotected sex? Where are the other gay people who are sick of this and when can we band together and reclaim our sanity?

    Naturally, if you go into a chatroom known for cruising, you're going to get hit on. (There are gay.com chatrooms based on interests that are less sexual, by the way. And in all my years on gay.com, nobody has ever suggested I was deviant for only having protected sex.) If you go into a cruising room with a judgmental attitude about people's sexualization of one another, you're gonna get slapped.

    So, apart from that experience, I'd seriously like to hear an example of how you are shunned for not "flaunting your sexuality."
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    Jan 17, 2008 4:31 AM GMT
    When were you ever sorry to be on a soapbox hippie?
  • imperator

    Posts: 626

    Jan 17, 2008 6:39 AM GMT
    I'd say the quick, short, generalised answer (which plenty of people will disagree with even if they can't offer a good counterpoint) is "everyone-- even the 'deviants'-- want everyone else to be 'normal like them.'" So if you're all 'nice' and proper then you want others to be like you, and those who aren't cause you distress because they're oppressive with their demands that you 'demean' or 'degrade' yourself to fit in. Meanwhile if you prefer to indulge every hormonal impulse, you also want others to be like you, and those who don't are repressive prudes with 'problems' who are trying to spoil your party. Either way, anyone who claims that "the other way" is better (or sometimes even if they only claim it's equally valid) causes offense because the fact that they can claim to be happy any other way than yours might make your choices seem less legitimate in the court of public opinion. We all want to be normal/right.

    That said, I find it conspicuous that the OP says (essentially) "yay for sexual liberation, I'm cool with that" followed by "just stop sexualising everything." While it's true that there IS more to life, it's naive to suggest that sex isn't huge. You wouldn't even exist if it weren't for sex. Our species will dissappear without sex. Sexual arousal is so intrinsic to us (and to every other higher-order animal so far as we know) that it's wired into the side of our nervous system that we can't fully consciously control. Sex is in our instincts. That means it's never going to go away, as hard as some might effort to the contrary (which itself is another sign of how big a deal it is-- how hard the powers-that-be try to control it).

    But rather than being distressed about it all-- feeling 'defensive' because the nasty sex-fanatics/the anti-sex prudes are out to get you-- take a stoic approach to it. Change the things you can, namely (and only) yourself-- your own actions and reactions-- and accept those things that you can't change, namely everything else that's external to you. You can't possibly overturn the way of the whole world and make all of "them" go away, but if you don't feel you fit in with them you simply carve out a niche for yourself. With deliberation and patience you find others who feel as you do, and then you find some uncontested real estate (start a book club, or a website, or a pot-luck circuit, or whatever) and you make that space into the world you want to live in, then you keep it for yourselves by outlasting the seige and waiting for the world outside to change. Or maybe with time your sensibilities change.

    Either way, the World is too big for you to make war with all of it. The only sane option, therefore, is to spend your energy wisely and choose the 'battles' you can win. In the case of being 'up against' a sex-obsessed world (and it is the majority of the world, not just the 'gay 10%' of it) the wise thing to do would seem to be to withdraw to a defensible space and conserve, instead of trying to change an instinctual expression in the culture at large.
  • hotversguy

    Posts: 155

    Jan 17, 2008 7:02 AM GMT
    hippie4lyfe said[quote][cite]jarhead5536 said[/cite]
    In purely biological terms, the male wants to have as much sex with as many partners as possible in order to spread his genes.


    I disagree, I mean there are so many people I know straight and gay who seriously only want to have sex in a relationship with someone they care about. Sex with just anyone is a repulsive idea to many people. Conversely there are many males and females who wanna go out and fuck as much as possible. But these are not the only kind of males or females that exist.[/quote]

    Despite their perks or pitfalls, relationships are among the social constructs that we impose upon ourselves for society to run.

    Millenia back in the days of 20 year life-spans, spreading seed was an imperative (think sex feels good just because?). It was breed or die. Or rather, breed and die.

    Hard-wiring like that is very hard to change, if possible at all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2008 7:58 AM GMT
    hippie... I'm one of those guys that you mentioned that isn't all about sex, doesn't sleep around, and is very much into monogamy. However, I've never felt degraded, repulsed or offended by ads for sex sites or sex toys or whatever. I know they are going to be there when I go to certain sites and I tend to not even notice them.

    I fail to see how a picture of a fit, shirtless man can be offensive, degrading or repulsive. To each his own... but it did what they wanted it to do... it got your attention, whether you liked it or not. Sex has been used extensively in the hetero world to sell any number of goods or services since the beginning of commerce. Whether that's right or wrong, it works, and it only follows logically that the same tactics would be used in the gay market.

    I respect your right to your opinions and I in no way mean to discount them. However, it boils down to this... if I go to a site and I don't like what I see, I don't go back. If I go to a site and don't like the ads, I turn on my ad blocker. If I turn on a TV station and don't like what's there, I change the channel. If a company markets a product and their advertising offends me, I don't purchase that brand. You have ultimate control, you just have to exercise it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2008 2:23 PM GMT
    you have a sexuality, hippie?
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    Jan 17, 2008 2:27 PM GMT
    native i agree that one can choose where to visit, etc. i try to support websites, companies that celebrate being gay and not just sexually, sure ones that embrace sexuality as well but look at it as only part of the broader concept of homosexuality. it just seems like finding these businesses or websites can be a task at times, much like finding vegetables at a meat market. sure maybe they will have something but it is unlikely. i think things are changing and i gladly support the sites that are going with the change.

    my main thought is the reason for the oversexualization of the gay community is because it was considered fringe and deviant. society forced gays underground, and so naturally all aspects of gay life could not be embraced and only sex was done secretly. The thought pattern became how do i get away with having sex and where can I do it? Which led to lots of drugs, alcohol, cruising, bars, porn shops, and the like. I think as homosexuality is more accepted people realize their lives need not be like that. They can have sex with their partner, go out to dinner, and hold hands on the street.
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    Jan 17, 2008 2:29 PM GMT
    "The thought pattern became how do i get away with having sex and where can I do it? Which led to lots of drugs, alcohol, cruising, bars, porn shops, and the like"

    Right, because none of these things existed until we came along.

    I hope you're not a sociologist.