What is America's true form of government?

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    Mar 03, 2010 10:12 AM GMT


  • HotCoach

    Posts: 247

    Mar 03, 2010 1:49 PM GMT
    Excellent question!

    But without much thought I'd say it's a "majoritocracy".

    Explaination to follow.
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    Mar 03, 2010 2:14 PM GMT
    It's a "Good Ol' Boys Club."
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Mar 03, 2010 2:32 PM GMT
    there is government and there is governmentality ...

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    Mar 03, 2010 2:40 PM GMT
    An oligarchy, that disguises itself as a republic to appease the people.
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    Mar 03, 2010 4:12 PM GMT
    Government is apparently what a video says it is icon_lol.gif

    But really what you should learn from that video is that it doesn't matter what you call a government .. they can all go bad .. the distinction between republic and democracy is pretty useless because we have truly neither.

    Like it or not, we use majorities all the time in legislation and supreme court decisions. I think the best thing we have going for us is the balance of power and the three branches of government.

    Ultimately the best thing for a country/government is that the people are rational and educated. Also what creates stability is that the MAJORITY of people have the essential needs met. I.E. the general welfare of the people. If there are too many poor and wealth is concentrated for example .. there will be revolution .. if there are too many controlling laws ... the people will feel oppressed.

    It doesn't matter what you call it, what is needed is balance and moderation that takes care of the needs of it's people.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 03, 2010 4:26 PM GMT
    In response to the video, the US is a democratic republic, not just a republic. It takes a simple majority of elected officials (as elected by a simple majority or plurality of the electorate) to pass laws that comprise the republic.

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.
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    Mar 03, 2010 4:34 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidAn oligarchy, that disguises itself as a republic to appease the people.


    most definetely. This follows from that in our sort of capitalist democracy money literally buys votes. Whether that be in advertisements, contributions to politicians, or promoting certain ideas in the news.
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    Mar 03, 2010 5:25 PM GMT
    rug12ds said
    Red_Vespa saidAn oligarchy, that disguises itself as a republic to appease the people.


    most definetely. This follows from that in our sort of capitalist democracy money literally buys votes. Whether that be in advertisements, contributions to politicians, or promoting certain ideas in the news.


    I agree... the oligarchical rule of this nation is a big part of our current economic crisis. We need to reign it in and break the influence corporations can have on the government. We don't elect CEOs to represent us, and yet indirectly they are... and they're doing so poorly with few of the people's best interests in mind.

    To corporations, we are only useful as consumers, so they push for legislation that facilitates us continuing this downward spiral of consuming more than we produce and wracking up more and more debt.
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    Mar 03, 2010 5:32 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said.....

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.


    only as of Jan. 20th? I thought it had been like that for at least 30 years....
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    Mar 03, 2010 5:48 PM GMT
    judoguy said
    coolarmydude said.....

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.


    only as of Jan. 20th? I thought it had been like that for at least 30 years....


    Since the implementation of Reaganomics?
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    Mar 03, 2010 5:54 PM GMT
    abm1985 said...We need to reign it in and break the influence corporations can have on the government.

    Well, the conservatives on the US Supreme Court just broke SCOTUS precedent to give the corporations, both foreign & domestic, the keys to the US Congress, and every other elective body in this country worth owning. Supposedly the labor unions can do the same thing, as if that will balance the buying power of the corporations. Even as conservatives are simultaneously trying to crush and outlaw the unions.

    Yep, an oligarchy is what we have. Reminds me a little of the view of Communism we were presented with as children in the 1950s: Communists claimed to have elections, but those were shams, since there was only one political party, and only a single candidate presented for each office. So their people could do nothing but rubber-stamp with their vote, what was a foregone conclusion.

    Ah, but the US has 2 parties from which to choose, sometimes more we were taught. Here the voters truly decide. Do they really?

    In today's America you buy the election through campaign money. The people choose not the best candidate, but the best campaign ads, and the best campaign coverage. He who is seen most & best gets elected.

    In a busy & complex world, with information overload, you settle for sound bites, rather than sound research. I remember when Americans once studied the positions a candidate held, and any prior voting record. Today you make up your mind in a matter of minutes, then turn your attention to more important things, like American Idol.

    Once an electorate no longer needs to be persuaded, but orchestrated, its support going to the highest and most creative bidder, then individual voters lose their value, and can be taken for granted. Just like in the 1-party Communist elections, except instead of candidates needing the Party's endorsement, they need to pledge corporate allegiance. Elections become a foregone conclusion, the voters merely needed as a formality to rubber-stamp them. And that is how oligarchies come to exist in the modern world.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 03, 2010 6:01 PM GMT
    abm1985 said
    judoguy said
    coolarmydude said.....

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.


    only as of Jan. 20th? I thought it had been like that for at least 30 years....


    Since the implementation of Reaganomics?



    I know. I was referring to the Supreme Court decision that gave corporations equal free speech rights with humans.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:09 PM GMT
    I think that we're learning in America that while a Republic also sounds nice, it too has a major inherent flaw. It only really works when the people care enough about the politics and are active enough in the government to actually make their voices heard. The law is what rules, but the law is not complete. We constantly find cases and issues where the law is not clear or not yet founded. When the people do not then interact to determine the just rule of law in those instances, then things start to go bad and justice begins to become corrupt.

    Also, as others have said, this video isn't really a faithful representation of what goes on in the US. Our electoral process and the initiative process can certainly create the opportunity for the majority to infringe upon the rights of the minority. When the government doesn't have a stance on the issue or the law doesn't know enough to determine if it is justifiable or not, then the majority is given an open gate for rule of their will.

    Also, I gotta say, this video is a bit fear-mongering, no? Everything but a republic end up in an oligarchy? Accompanied by screams of pain and terror and children crying? A little extreme, to tell the truth.

    Anyway, the OP's actual question: Imma go with faith-determined democracy. For all our supposed separation of church and state, we sure as hell suck at it.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:10 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidIn response to the video, the US is a democratic republic, not just a republic. It takes a simple majority of elected officials (as elected by a simple majority or plurality of the electorate) to pass laws that comprise the republic.

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.


    You forgot to add; Run by too many bible toating republicans.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    Under Bush, we were an oligarchy run by the business and financial elite, with Cheney as the underminer of our government institutions and Constitution. Bush was just a ruse.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 03, 2010 6:14 PM GMT
    representation by apathy
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 03, 2010 6:22 PM GMT
    Supposedly we are a Representative Democracy or a Republic
    But during our history we have transformed ourselves into what many have already stated and that is an Oligarchy
    But even that is not totally true
    Because in a true Oligarchy the power rests with the few
    Kingdoms and Theocracies are real Oligarchies
    What we truly have become is a Corpratocracy where we have become ruled by the power of Business
    and this last recession and its aftermath absolutely proves it
    We had banking and the financial institutions basically telling Government what they can and cannot do
    AND ....... after the Billions upon Billions of dollars lost
    people ruined and the near obliteration of economies around the world
    we HAVE YET to see and reform bills passed to prevent this from happening all over again tomorrow
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Mar 03, 2010 6:25 PM GMT
    GQjock saidSupposedly we are a Representative Democracy or a Republic
    But during our history we have transformed ourselves into what many have already stated and that is an Oligarchy
    But even that is not totally true
    Because in a true Oligarchy the power rests with the few
    Kingdoms and Theocracies are real Oligarchies
    What we truly have become is a Corpratocracy where we have become ruled by the power of Business
    and this last recession and its aftermath absolutely proves it
    We had banking and the financial institutions basically telling Government what they can and cannot do
    AND ....... after the Billions upon Billions of dollars lost
    people ruined and the near obliteration of economies around the world
    we HAVE YET to see and reform bills passed to prevent this from happening all over again tomorrow


    That sounds about right.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:31 PM GMT
    ucimae saidI think that we're learning in America that while a Republic also sounds nice, it too has a major inherent flaw. It only really works when the people care enough about the politics and are active enough in the government to actually make their voices heard.

    Of course you echo the famous apocryphal words ascribed to Benjamin Franklin, as he was exiting the Constitutional Convention in 1787:

    "What kind of government have you given us, Doctor Franklin?" called out a bystander.

    "A republic, if you can keep it," he replied.

    I fear we are doing a worse job of keeping it all the time.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:40 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    abm1985 said
    judoguy said
    coolarmydude said.....

    But in all cynicism, as of Jan 20th, the United States became a corporatocracy.


    only as of Jan. 20th? I thought it had been like that for at least 30 years....


    Since the implementation of Reaganomics?



    I know. I was referring to the Supreme Court decision that gave corporations equal free speech rights with humans.


    I had always been under the impression that happened during the 1886 Supreme Court case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:44 PM GMT
    Government in the U.S. is mostly by, and for, large corporations to maximize profit to the shareholders.

    Examples:
    The criminal justice system
    Health care providers.
    Drug companies.
    Big fast food.
    Insurance.
    Wall Street.
    The military industrial complex.
    The war on "drugs".

    The corporations employ leagues of lobbyists to put forth their agenda and are highly successful.

    Unregulated capitalism ends up being a huge failure.

    Unfortunately, this country was sold years ago to special interests.
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    Mar 03, 2010 6:52 PM GMT
    abm1985 saidI had always been under the impression that happened during the 1886 Supreme Court case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company.

    You are correct, a corporation was determined to be legally a person for certain purposes in that case. But not all purposes. And because of the disproportionate effect a corporation can have in making political contributions, Congress passed laws, which SCOTUS previously upheld, that kept the playing field more level, between the individual people and corporations. Now the corporations can trump everyone (pun there?) and buy Congress as if making another merger. And because profit is involved, don't think they won't.
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    Mar 03, 2010 7:29 PM GMT
    Plutarchy.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 03, 2010 7:41 PM GMT
    abm1985 said
    I had always been under the impression that happened during the 1886 Supreme Court case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company.



    Until Jan, they had limits on how much money they could donate towards political media. Now it's unlimited.