NO plus alcohol and low body fat.

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    Mar 12, 2010 4:33 PM GMT
    holy holy holy shit!

    I wasn't aware of this until last weekend. Wondered if anyone else was aware of it.

    I went out with some friends on Saturday night. Two of the guys are bodybuilder types, getting in shape for a show in a couple weeks. They're natural, but also in their 20's with stupid crazy perfect genetics,

    Anyway, they have pretty low body fat.

    So we were drinking and as happens a lot the party ended up back at my place. Several people had a lot to drink and ended up staying the night. The two bodybuilder guys were staying over.

    In the middle of the night I hear this loud crash from the bedroom across the hall. I jump out of bed and go over there and one of them had passed out on the floor, taking a lamp with him...he was semi-conscious and was FREAKING out, saying "I can't see! I can't see!" He was totally pale and couldn't really control his body.

    I thought he was having some kind of stroke! All this noise was waking people up, including the other bodybuilder guy. He got up and HE FELL OVER TOO! Which is unfortunate because he's a paramedic/fire fighter type and I was hoping he could help.

    Now I'm thinking...FUCK!! Maybe they were poisoned!

    So luckily one of the girls called 911 and they got taken to the emergency room. One of the doctors who got them hooked up to IV's was asking me questions about what happened.

    It turns out they were taking NO xplode, which the doctor asked me about, and that combined with really low body fat and alcohol causes this reaction sometimes.

    I was really too freaked out to pay attention to most of what he said...vasal vagal, blah blah blah, hypertension or hypotension...blah blah blah.

    So I looked it up later...mixing NO supps and alcohol can cause hypotension and hypoglycemia...I guess if you have really low body fat that compounds the problem and you pass out/freak everyone out.

    Anyway, I wanted to get this up here...sorry it's so long. Seeing them flopping around like that still freaks me out, so I wanted you all to be aware.

    btw, they're both fine, one has a gash on his head from a nightstand, which will be a sexy scar someday...the IVs fixed em up.



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    Mar 12, 2010 8:16 PM GMT
    Damn...never heard of this.
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:23 PM GMT
    Sounds like hypoglycemia. Alcohol causes that. In folks who are on restrictive diets, and active, mixed with alcohol, hypoglycemia is a real possibility. I get it from time to time if I don't keep my carbs up. The symptoms wouldn't be so much related to low body fat as much as to being carb depleted (no carbs in the muscle and liver).

    Ever drink and end up starving? That's the alcohol driving your blood sugar down. Folks who drink too much often don't exercise enough, get too many calories from the alcohol and don't eat enough protein so they end up with that classic "beer gut."

    At very low blood sugar levels seizure occurs. Likely, that's exactly what happened when he lost motor control.

    Next time you have someone like this feed them some orange juice, or a piece of candy. In about five minutes, they'll be fine.

    This likely doesn't have much to do with the NO Explode other than that it might have some caffeine in it. More, it's related to restrictive diet, and alcohol. The stuff in the NO would cause some vaso-dilation, as would the alochol, but, any seizure is mostly related to blood sugar.

    When you faint, it's your brain's way of putting your head lower so that it can get blood to it. Likely, that's not what happened, if the guy was moving around. Likely: low blood sugar.
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Mar 12, 2010 8:27 PM GMT
    well, isn't that frightening? yikes.
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:29 PM GMT
    Sure, it's frightening, but, like seeing someone choke and doing the Heimlich maneuver, giving someone with low blood sugar a fast carb can save their life. Juice or soft candy, or an injector (glucagon). They may spit it out, but, you gotta' get it in them.

    I live with a diabetic, and have been witness to seizure, and I've saved his life on a couple of occasions.

    It's all about having a plan; knowing what to do.
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:30 PM GMT
    Oh My Gawd
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:37 PM GMT
    You can't buy NO-explode it's classified as a prescription drug, even still I ordered a tub online from States figuring I'd give it a try.

    Anyone know what exactly happens biochemically/physiologically, what's in it that causes such a thing?
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:40 PM GMT
    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=nitric+oxide

    Niacin LOL. nicotinic acid

    and

    Nitric Oxide / nitrogen monoxide

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_oxide

    "N.O."

    Vasodilators. They lower vascular resistance / blood pressure.
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:47 PM GMT
    Yes...that I know, I've taken more than one class in NO cell-signaling and cellular biology icon_neutral.gif

    But how does that make you have a seizure/go blind ?

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    Mar 12, 2010 8:49 PM GMT
    If they were getting ready for a show what they hell were they doing out drinking anyway!!!!!
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    Mar 12, 2010 8:50 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidYes...that I know, I've taken more than one class in NO cell-signaling and cellular biology icon_neutral.gif

    But how does that make you have a seizure/go blind ?


    Low blood sugar causes seizure, Punkin.

    Low blood pressure causes fainting.

    Your brain, when it goes into this state, fires in a certain way

    Ever hear about folks seeing the white light? Well, that's what happens when your brains starts shutting down systems. The Air Force does it all the times with pilots (no, it's NOT "God").

    When your blood sugar goes low, your optic nerve goes all on, or all off. The white light is when it goes all on. They've (military) have studied it extensively.

    You lose motor control because your brain is on the verge of shut down. There's just not enough fuel to fire, either. You can study up on that, too.

    If you've ever witnessed a seizure, it's interesting. It's like watching the human machine reboot.

    Death is not a sudden thing. It happens for a long as several hours and goes through a number of steps. Researchers now know that they can prolong death considerably by cooling the body way down. It's completely changing emergency medicine.

    The low blood sugar would be a symptom of strict diet, exercise, and alcohol.

    Hypotension would come from alcohol and NO along with a good fitness level.

    Make sense now?
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    Mar 12, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    I have both epilepsy (from neurological causes), and was borderline hypoglycemic when I was younger. All of this is therefore very familiar to me, why I always wear a MedicAlert bracelet. The OP certainly has my sympathies, a very traumatic thing to have to experience, and he seems to have done a good job under difficult circumstances.

    The oddest thing for me is that BOTH of these guys had the same thing happen to them, within the same time frame. But if they both train together, and take the same amount of NO, and drank the same volume of alcohol that night, it could have produced similar results.

    Very low body fat can look good, but going too low can remove some of the natural benefits that a healthy fat reserve provides, and that threshold of danger can vary by individual. I had a BF who was very proud of his measured 9% body fat (which I also once had, too).

    Well, we attended an outdoor Renaissance Faire near Minneapolis together, and walked the extensive grounds all day. But I noticed a sudden change in him, as he started to stumble, and wasn't answering me. All at once he lurched away from me, faster than I could keep up & catch him, and he crashed into a vendor's display, ending up flat on his back.

    The owner was furious, and started yelling that my damn BF was a drunk, which he very much looked like. But I quickly saw his eyes were dilated, unable to see anything, his body twitching, unresponsive to my words. I told the owner my friend was having a seizure (though I'd only known him 2 months, and was just guessing, but I wanted help there quickly with no arguments). Within a few minutes an ambulance-type golf cart arrived and took him away to a medical station, where he recovered on his own in about 30 minutes.

    Later back home his doctor told him his low body fat was to blame, and supplements he was taking (I don't know what). He just couldn't tolerate 9% in his early 50s, and with other personal health factors he had. I tried to get him to eat better, but he was obsessed with losing weight for the sake of his appearance. He continued to have these episodes over the next 2 years that I knew him, though none ever as bad as this one, to my knowledge.

    It's great to look great, but we should be guided first by what our own bodies require to be healthy, not what our vanity requires in a mirror. I hope the OP's friends learn that, along with a little moderation.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 12, 2010 9:25 PM GMT
    note to self - stay fat so I can drink lots
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    Mar 12, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidnote to self - stay fat so I can drink lots

    Hey, that's what I do! icon_wink.gif

    (Seriously, heavy drinking can contribute to weight problems)
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    Mar 12, 2010 9:36 PM GMT
    Phew, good thing I stopped taking No-Xplode.... Anybody know any potential side effects of Myo-Shock? I was actually taken to the ER w/ Supraventricular Tachycardia a while back, but I brought the container of myo-shock to the cardiologist at a follow up and he said it most likely wasn't the cause (but he would recommend not taking any supplements). I continue to take it, but have stopped all other caffeine intake like my Dr. said and things have seemed to improve. Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask about this, I've just been meaning to ask if anyone had any input on the situation and this thread reminded me.
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    Mar 12, 2010 9:47 PM GMT
    Same stuff.
    Actually, it's arginine that releases NO during metabolism, not niacin. (And related AA's such as citrulline and to a lesser extent, glutamine, that feed into the same pathway.) Anything with arginine as a major ingredient on the label will be a vasodilator.

    When I used that stuff, I preferred to use myo-shock or nitrix during bike rides, because it seemed to be more of a slow, sustained release. NOxplode would sometimes make my knees feel "tight" and sore during climbs.
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    Mar 12, 2010 10:03 PM GMT
    I dunno..the ER doc specifically asked me about NO supps and if they were taking them. It seemed like he's seen this before..
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    Mar 12, 2010 10:17 PM GMT
    thanks for the freak out icon_sad.gif I have noticed when taking NO that if I drink the same day/night (which is not often) I get a helluva lot drunker on a lot less drinks, most of the time nearly blacking out or actually doing it. I have been using NO for so long and I'm just waiting for that dreaded day when I see some commercial asking " have you taken NO, did you experience such and such... well call blah blah and blah blah you may have a case " I think I have experienced the near blindness I was really blurry and I do recall my brother falling over once and blacking out OH ! I remember he said he couldn't see! hmm good find Tommy
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    Mar 12, 2010 10:26 PM GMT
    haha, now that I know what happening I'm going to use the NO/alcohol combo as a cheaper alternative to roofies and score me some bodybuilders!!

    THANK GOD IT'S FRIDAY!!
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    Mar 12, 2010 10:47 PM GMT
    tommysguns2000 saidhaha, now that I know what happening I'm going to use the NO/alcohol combo as a cheaper alternative to roofies and score me some bodybuilders!!

    THANK GOD IT'S FRIDAY!!


    OMG!! That's priceless!! That is the best laugh I've had all day!! I love your sense of humor...still laughing!!
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    Mar 13, 2010 5:21 AM GMT
    Well fuck. I just took myo-shock earlier and now I'm heading out drinking w/ some co-workers. I'll update you on my hospital visit when I get home tomorrow icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 13, 2010 5:24 AM GMT
    shoulda taped it all n post it on youtube.....
  • FredMG

    Posts: 988

    Mar 13, 2010 5:50 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidnote to self - stay fat so I can drink lots


    Not exactly my plan, but I have a long way to go before I have to worry about not having enough fat to soak up a few beers.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 13, 2010 5:53 PM GMT
    FredPDX said
    Timberoo saidnote to self - stay fat so I can drink lots


    Not exactly my plan, but I have a long way to go before I have to worry about not having enough fat to soak up a few beers.


    me too, but I am a lightweight. I drink one beer too fast and I have a buzz.