So who wins politically when the United States and Israel feud?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 16, 2010 7:24 PM GMT
    "So who wins politically when the United States and Israel feud?

    ....

    The conventional wisdom in Washington holds that Netanyahu orchestrated the whole thing as a show of strength toward and independence from the Obama administration, which is held in low esteem by the hawkish members of his coalition. The announcement did indeed draw praise from the nationalist-religious parties that help make up his government.

    ...

    Why is Oren [Israeli ambassador] concerned? And why should Netanyahu share that concern?

    First, it's worth keeping in mind that opinion polls often show that a majority of Israelis supports the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel. That is the Obama administration's policy, which Israeli building in the territories severely undermines.

    Moreover, secular Israelis view religious settlers as a drain on the national treasury and certainly not worth a fight with a superpower ally that provides the Jewish state with $3 billion a year in military aid."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/16/AR2010031602078.html?hpid=topnews
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    Mar 16, 2010 8:30 PM GMT
    The US always caves and loses to Israel. The Israeli lobby in the US is too strong to oppose.

    The relative merits of the Israel vs, Palestine conflict are immaterial. This is a question of US politics. The US will cave, as it always has in every administration since Johnson, to mollify a strong pro-Israel element in Congress. Only Eisenhower tried differently, and it got him into deep political trouble,

    The outcome is already ordained, this is not a serious question. The real question is the way in which the Obama Administration will cave while trying to save face. That is the actual story here.
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    Mar 16, 2010 9:03 PM GMT
    So you're saying the Jews control Washington?

    ...
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Mar 16, 2010 9:05 PM GMT
    USA and Israel will always be friends have have a great relationship, sadly there are a few feuds here and there, hopefully Israel will change its administration next election.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 16, 2010 9:07 PM GMT
    The arrogance of Netanyahu is that his military power is a direct result of its relationship with the US.
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    Mar 16, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
    I agree with GI Joe above me.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 16, 2010 10:28 PM GMT
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7063635.ece

    For the negotiations to go anywhere Isreal is going to have to eventually stop these settlements and dismantle them
    ... end of story

    So if they are going to act in good faith Obama should just sit back and wait
    because to do anything else is a complete waste of time
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    Mar 16, 2010 11:53 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Red_Vespa saidThe US always caves and loses to Israel. The Israeli lobby in the US is too strong to oppose.

    The relative merits of the Israel vs, Palestine conflict are immaterial. This is a question of US politics. The US will cave, as it always has in every administration since Johnson, to mollify a strong pro-Israel element in Congress. Only Eisenhower tried differently, and it got him into deep political trouble,

    The outcome is already ordained, this is not a serious question. The real question is the way in which the Obama Administration will cave while trying to save face. That is the actual story here.


    Well now, we do agree on something! icon_eek.gif


    Wow! Southbeach is in step with the Obama Administration. No wonder it's been raining here for three days straight.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 12:03 AM GMT
    I advocate removing all aid from both sides and letting their God sort it all out if He's real
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 12:17 AM GMT
    Joe52 saidWow! Southbeach is in step with the Obama Administration. No wonder it's been raining here for three days straight.

    I would hardly say in agreement with Obama. Rather, SB agrees with me, that the Obama Administration will cave on Israel, despite initial harsh statements, as have all previous US administrations for the last 50 years, including SB's beloved George Bush.

    I was merely stating a political reality, not arguing the merits of Israel's position. The fact is, whatever Israel wants, the US will ultimately rubber-stamp. That is one of the sources of the great hostility the US suffers in the Arab world.

    A better course might be to act as a fair broker between both sides, who each have valid grievances against the other. But the US is always pro-Israel, no matter what, and will be on this occasion, too.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 12:38 AM GMT
    china wins. no matter what. what was the question?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 1:33 AM GMT
    Its amazing that American Jews are I think less than 2% of the population but wield such amazing influence over our foreign policy decisions.Personally I think our aid to Israel should cease until they withdraw from East Jerusalem and the West Bank.The Middle East conflict is a breeding ground for terrorists all over the world.Is my idea likely to happen no way.But I stand my ground.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 1:40 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidThe US always caves and loses to Israel. The Israeli lobby in the US is too strong to oppose.

    The relative merits of the Israel vs, Palestine conflict are immaterial. This is a question of US politics. The US will cave, as it always has in every administration since Johnson, to mollify a strong pro-Israel element in Congress. Only Eisenhower tried differently, and it got him into deep political trouble,

    The outcome is already ordained, this is not a serious question. The real question is the way in which the Obama Administration will cave while trying to save face. That is the actual story here.

    I am not so sure this time. After 9/11, Americans have learned a lot more about the Middle East and they have been inconvenience a lot by all the security precautions we have had to take. Eventually, Americans may ask why we are burdening ourselves with the enmity of the ME for an "ally" who refuses to behave in a manner that might lead to peace....but rather is behaving in such an insulting behavior even toward our own VP.
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    Mar 17, 2010 2:02 AM GMT
    America is Israels bitch just as Britain is America's bitch.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 2:21 AM GMT
    You know why the right wing here wants the Jews to be in Israel right? It's to facilitate the return of Jesus, who will promptly kill most Jews because they don't believe in Him.

    Places! Places! Where are my Jews!?
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Mar 17, 2010 2:22 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidYou know why the right wing here wants the Jews to be in Israel right? It's to facilitate the return of Jesus, who will promptly kill most Jews because they don't believe in Him.

    Places! Places! Where are my Jews!?


    Right here.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 2:24 AM GMT
    DCEric said
    TheIStrat saidYou know why the right wing here wants the Jews to be in Israel right? It's to facilitate the return of Jesus, who will promptly kill most Jews because they don't believe in Him.

    Places! Places! Where are my Jews!?


    Right here.


    Oh good. I'm craving Matza balls
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    Mar 17, 2010 2:26 AM GMT
    dancerjack saidchina wins. no matter what. what was the question?


    Agreed. I don't think Iran's too torn up about the US-Israeli catfight either.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Mar 17, 2010 2:29 AM GMT
    TheIStrat said
    DCEric said
    TheIStrat saidYou know why the right wing here wants the Jews to be in Israel right? It's to facilitate the return of Jesus, who will promptly kill most Jews because they don't believe in Him.

    Places! Places! Where are my Jews!?


    Right here.


    Oh good. I'm craving Matza balls


    You stay away from those! That's inside my personal bubble!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2010 2:30 AM GMT
    DCEric said
    TheIStrat said
    DCEric said
    TheIStrat saidYou know why the right wing here wants the Jews to be in Israel right? It's to facilitate the return of Jesus, who will promptly kill most Jews because they don't believe in Him.

    Places! Places! Where are my Jews!?


    Right here.


    Oh good. I'm craving Matza balls


    You stay away from those! That's inside my personal bubble!


    I'll lick your Matza balls
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    Mar 17, 2010 12:22 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 saidI am not so sure this time. After 9/11, Americans have learned a lot more about the Middle East and they have been inconvenience a lot by all the security precautions we have had to take. Eventually, Americans may ask why we are burdening ourselves with the enmity of the ME for an "ally" who refuses to behave in a manner that might lead to peace....but rather is behaving in such an insulting behavior even toward our own VP.

    That may be true among some US voters, but not the opinion that will prevail in Washington. The dominant DC view is one of "regional security" meaning having some power there to balance against the Arabs and the Islamic fundamentalists. Without Israel, US presence and influence will suffer, though the counter-argument is that our support of Israel likewise hurts the US.

    But I would rather stay out of a debate of the merits of either position, merely noting that the US has no choice but to support Israel, for good or for bad. The Israelis know this, and why they could insult VP Biden to his face during his official visit there last week. That speaks volumes about how much they fear the US, and the possibility of losing US support. The US will do what's it's told by Israel in the Middle-East, just like it always has for the last 50 years.
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    Mar 17, 2010 12:32 PM GMT
    I've always found it odd that the United States has supported Israel so strongly in the first place.... and odder that I cannot explain why.
  • HotCoach

    Posts: 247

    Mar 17, 2010 1:08 PM GMT
    Israel would not and cannot exist without the US.

    Time to go back to the original UN Charter for the State of Israel.

    And the idea of a two state solution is unrealistic. Let the people who live on the land NOW decide democratically what their government should look like.

    Israel is not now nor has it ever been a democracy.
  • Mepark

    Posts: 806

    Mar 17, 2010 3:36 PM GMT
    A two state solution would not make the situation any better. Israel would be crazy to agree to it. Obama is out of his mind even bothering pushing for it. Move all Palestinians to Jordan while annexing some West Bank cities into that country. Case solved. Everyone lives happily ever after.

    Will it happen? probably not without a war. But I'll take one big war, than the endless ones that are to come.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Mar 17, 2010 3:54 PM GMT
    Caslon13000 said"So who wins politically when the United States and Israel feud?


    Nobody -- it's a lose-lose