Being in closet doesn't always equal being ashamed of who you are.

  • JFitNC

    Posts: 50

    Mar 18, 2010 5:14 PM GMT
    So recently a guy that I have been seeing casually asked me why I am still "in" the closet to the majority of the people around me. Since I have come to accept who I am (I typically refrain from a label of straight, gay, or bi and just use queer for the most part) he doesn't understand why I haven't taken the big leaf. He then went on to say that any man in the closet is either in denial or ashamed of who they are. I for one don't see this as being true. While the fact women and men both attract me is often disputed (gay men often tell me that there is no way a man can truly feel for both and women are either weirded out or try to turn me completely hetero) I have no shame in who I am. The reason why I am not "out" is because I hate shaking up my life and find that at this particular time of my life the last thing I need is to make it more complicated. I understand that that feels like a rather greedy and vain reason to stay in but it's just something I don't feel has its best timing at the moment.

    Does this come off as a practical way of thinking? Can a relationship move past casual and be successful if one of the guys is [somewhat] in the closet?

    *PS it helps at times that my own mother at least knows somewhat my approach toward sexuality but socially the change seems a bit much at the moment.
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    Mar 18, 2010 5:21 PM GMT
    Agreed, it may not equal being ashamed, but I truly believe that you aren't yourself until you've fully come out to the world and you're comfortable telling anyone that asks.

    Many of my gay friends that have recently come out have told me that they experienced a whole new them, and it makes sense to me in a way that you're still concealing a part of yourself to people...and therefore may have a different experience as a person when being fully out.

    just a thought
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    Mar 18, 2010 5:41 PM GMT
    I'm one person who feels that staying in the closet can sometimes be a good thing - as far as certain work related situations go. I'd prefer to be out totally to everyone, but I learned the hard way once that outing yourself at work can land you on your ass out on the sidewalk. Think it doesn't or can't happen in this day and age? Think again. So, my feeling is - be out to your friends and family - but keep it under wraps at the office (unless you work at one of those great places where it can't hurt you.)
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    Mar 18, 2010 6:28 PM GMT
    Everyone has to come out at their own time and if you do not feel safe in doing so then you may have to live in secrecy.
    However, I can’t help but wonder how many people around you have homophobic view because as they say; “I don’t know anyone who is gay,”
    or they only know of ones that can’t hide their sexuality by talking in a deep voice
    There will never be true acceptance till everyone knows someone who is gay.

    You don’t have to put a rainbow flag up on your house or a HRC sticker on your car, but for heaven sakes when you hear a derogatory comment made; please speak up.
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    Mar 19, 2010 6:23 AM GMT
    The closet isn't a real problem. What is a problem is to expect someone who is not in the closet to help you stay in the closet.
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    Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM GMT
    Well TigerBeat21, if you're attracted to both men and women you're definitely BI, and there's nothing wrong with that, depending on how you live it honestly with those that date you.

    Coming out is strictly your own business; others that tell you what to do don't have to live with any of your consequences.
    There are pluses and minuses: Pluses include connecting with another Bi man or woman who will automatically relate to your dual sexuality better than either a gay or straight person really can. Minuses include some gays or straights wanting no development of a deeper relationship because they want single gender orientation.
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    Mar 19, 2010 3:08 PM GMT
    jayyp saidAgreed, it may not equal being ashamed, but I truly believe that you aren't yourself until you've fully come out to the world and you're comfortable telling anyone that asks.

    Many of my gay friends that have recently come out have told me that they experienced a whole new them, and it makes sense to me in a way that you're still concealing a part of yourself to people...and therefore may have a different experience as a person when being fully out.

    just a thought


    Yeah you are right but some of us for all sorts of reason just cant 'come out', Yes, its difficult and we are hiding something of ourselves and we are not truly free - but sometimes that is just how it has to be.
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    Mar 20, 2010 12:24 AM GMT
    Dakota_gent saidThe closet isn't a real problem. What is a problem is to expect someone who is not in the closet to help you stay in the closet.


    This is sooooooooo true!! people in the closet don't know how liberating and good it feels for those of us who are totally out! I was in a relationship with a guy in the closet, and believe me it felt as if I was back in the closet all over again. I am over that and will not compromise such emotional freedom for anything!


    Leandro ♥
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    Mar 20, 2010 12:34 AM GMT
    I think in ten years you will look back at this moment and think to yourself, "What was I so damn afraid of?"

    It does take time and you should do it when you are ready, but you should also know that whether you come out now or come out later, the people who support you will be the same. They will love you for who you are and support you through the process.

    I remember being so afraid of losing everything and and everyone. I literally lost not one person in my life and grew closer to everyone. The added benefit was that I've been able to change a lot of opinions on gay rights. Unless people have a face to identify the movement with, they will think their old way of thinking is okay.

    Good luck. No judgement here, but in my opinion living life open is the only way to be truly comfortable in your own skin and to know who you really are.
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    Mar 22, 2010 4:03 AM GMT
    Dakota_gent saidThe closet isn't a real problem. What is a problem is to expect someone who is not in the closet to help you stay in the closet.


    Well said!
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Mar 22, 2010 4:06 AM GMT
    Watch how all the people without face pics will defend you to the bitter end.

    I think you're a pussy.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Mar 22, 2010 4:18 AM GMT
    From past experience, being in the closet isn't a deal breaker and the success of dealing with any of the issues that arise would deal with how complicated the life situations are. As an example, I know one person who is getting a divorce, has children, and does not want the homosexuality issue arising in court or in dealing with the guardianship of his children.

    Also from past experience, I would say most guys that have lived in the closet for quite sometime are very accomplished at lying and being deceitful. They also are skillfully adept at lying to themselves. This does not make them bad people, per se, but their understanding or attitude about honesty comes off to me as greatly askew.

    Although humans can compartmentalize well, living two separate lives obviously cannot be an emotionally and mentally healthy situation.
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    Mar 22, 2010 4:47 AM GMT
    TigerBeat21 saidSo recently a guy that I have been seeing casually asked me why I am still "in" the closet to the majority of the people around me. Since I have come to accept who I am (I typically refrain from a label of straight, gay, or bi and just use queer for the most part) he doesn't understand why I haven't taken the big leaf. He then went on to say that any man in the closet is either in denial or ashamed of who they are. I for one don't see this as being true. While the fact women and men both attract me is often disputed (gay men often tell me that there is no way a man can truly feel for both and women are either weirded out or try to turn me completely hetero) I have no shame in who I am. The reason why I am not "out" is because I hate shaking up my life and find that at this particular time of my life the last thing I need is to make it more complicated. I understand that that feels like a rather greedy and vain reason to stay in but it's just something I don't feel has its best timing at the moment.

    Does this come off as a practical way of thinking? Can a relationship move past casual and be successful if one of the guys is [somewhat] in the closet?

    *PS it helps at times that my own mother at least knows somewhat my approach toward sexuality but socially the change seems a bit much at the moment.


    I pre-block folks such as yourself, and don't associate with them (when I know) in Real Space. If you can't be trusted about something as very simple as sexuality, I sure don't want you in my circle of friends. Frankly, it's more baggage that I'm not willing to deal with. If I feel like going to a gay bar, or making a gay remark, I don't have to live with all the deceit, dishonesty, and lack of integrity, along with low esteem, that you guys have. Either you like yourself, and are whole, and honest, or, you don't. With 7 BILLION folks in the world, you simply aren't up to standards that I want for those I'd wish to associate with me, and I consider that there are others who do meet those standards. Your dual lives, constant worry, and constant self-centeredness wears upon me like nothing else. I simply can't imagine living in such a very dishonest way.

    You're your own worst enemy, and I, and guys like me, won't allow you to be weaker, by enabling you. Either you shape up, or, you can't hang with us. There's simply higher quality people to pick from.

    A real jock knows that if you coddle something it only grows weaker, and hold you back, but, if you train, into, through, and beyond, any discomfort, you come back stronger than ever.

    I think you know the right thing to do.
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    Mar 22, 2010 5:06 AM GMT
    Dakota_gent saidThe closet isn't a real problem. What is a problem is to expect someone who is not in the closet to help you stay in the closet.


    Yes, it's unreasonable for someone in the closet to expect someone who is "out" to change their ways just to protect the status of the closeted person. If someone wishes to remain in the closet, that's their choice, but they can't expect the "out" person to collude with them.

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    Mar 22, 2010 5:10 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    TigerBeat21 saidSo recently a guy that I have been seeing casually asked me why I am still "in" the closet to the majority of the people around me. Since I have come to accept who I am (I typically refrain from a label of straight, gay, or bi and just use queer for the most part) he doesn't understand why I haven't taken the big leaf. He then went on to say that any man in the closet is either in denial or ashamed of who they are. I for one don't see this as being true. While the fact women and men both attract me is often disputed (gay men often tell me that there is no way a man can truly feel for both and women are either weirded out or try to turn me completely hetero) I have no shame in who I am. The reason why I am not "out" is because I hate shaking up my life and find that at this particular time of my life the last thing I need is to make it more complicated. I understand that that feels like a rather greedy and vain reason to stay in but it's just something I don't feel has its best timing at the moment.

    Does this come off as a practical way of thinking? Can a relationship move past casual and be successful if one of the guys is [somewhat] in the closet?

    *PS it helps at times that my own mother at least knows somewhat my approach toward sexuality but socially the change seems a bit much at the moment.


    I pre-block folks such as yourself, and don't associate with them (when I know) in Real Space. If you can't be trusted about something as very simple as sexuality, I sure don't want you in my circle of friends. Frankly, it's more baggage that I'm not willing to deal with. If I feel like going to a gay bar, or making a gay remark, I don't have to live with all the deceit, dishonesty, and lack of integrity, along with low esteem, that you guys have. Either you like yourself, and are whole, and honest, or, you don't. With 7 BILLION folks in the world, you simply aren't up to standards that I want for those I'd wish to associate with me, and I consider that there are others who do meet those standards. Your dual lives, constant worry, and constant self-centeredness wears upon me like nothing else. I simply can't imagine living in such a very dishonest way.

    You're your own worst enemy, and I, and guys like me, won't allow you to be weaker, by enabling you. Either you shape up, or, you can't hang with us. There's simply higher quality people to pick from.

    A real jock knows that if you coddle something it only grows weaker, and hold you back, but, if you train, into, through, and beyond, any discomfort, you come back stronger than ever.

    I think you know the right thing to do.


    Your analysis is very harsh, but it has some truth to it. I wish I could be this ruthless in my selection of guys to associate with!

    You touch on a very important point, however, and that is honesty. Regardless of how one might attempt to justify the acceptability of being "in the closet", the reality is that "the closet" is ultimately a very dark place where DISHONESTY thrives.

  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    Mar 22, 2010 5:20 AM GMT
    yes, chucky comes off as a bit judgmental, but I think for me the outcomes are the same. I don't block someone who is closeted, but I am selective about who I let become close to me. I did end a relationship with a guy because of his closetedness with family. That meant that he would visit his family on holidays and leave me to fend for myself. That wasn't acceptable. If someone is not out at work, that's different for me than not out to family. It has much more of an impact on close relationships.

    I think men who are bi have a trickier path, but honesty is very important. For some reason, as a gay man, I would have a harder time if my partner left me for a woman than if my partner chose another man. I don't quite understand it, but that's how it seems for me.

    That being said, I don't think a gay man can develop fully if he remains in the closet. I think that there can be valid reasons to remain in the closet, especially as an adolescent who is not financially independent. One doesn't need to shoot oneself in the foot in order to please others or take it for the team. Readiness is important, but if someone finds that they are not ready year after year into adulthood, they will likely pay a price.

    So I find myself somewhat in the middle on this issue, closer to Chucky than many, but not interested in being dogmatic about the way others live their lives.
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    Mar 22, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    When I was a freshman in High School, I was finally able to grasp the concept that I was gay and I did not want to date women. From this realization, I obviously realized that I would be dating men down the road. I was closeted at this time, but thought about how dating would work being in the closet. I imagined I would have to lie about my whereabouts to my family and friends whenever I would see someone I was dating. Also, I did not think it would be fare to a boyfriend if I was closeted. If I loved someone, I would want to be able to shout it and say it to any person and not be ashamed of what our relationship meant. I didn't think this would be a good situation to be in. So at a young age I told myself I would not date until I was out.

    The only reason why I did come out (7 years later) was because I did not want to contribute to the oppression of the LGBTQ community. I was not even happy about being gay but knew I had to do it, especially being the only out male athlete in my school. The process of coming out was difficult but I gained so much more self respect from it and this process alone finally made me happy and proud to be a gay male. Funny how that worked.

    I am fine with others staying in the closet. People can live their lives as they please... but for me to be in an intimate relationship, I need someone who is willing to shout their love. (willing being the key word. it would actually be annoying if he did this everyday. ha)
  • DrobUA

    Posts: 1331

    Mar 22, 2010 5:37 AM GMT
    I don't get why everyone thinks that once you come out you have to tattoo a rainbow flag on your forehead. I am out but most ppl (such as my boss, people I'm in class with, my teachers) don't know I'm gay because... why would they. It very rarely is something that comes up in conversation but if it did I would have no reservations about telling someone I was. The only time being gay comes up is with my friends because we joke about stuff like that on a fairly regular basis.

    To sum it up, COMING OUT DOES NOT MEAN EVERY PERSON THAT SEES YOU ON THE STREET WILL LABEL YOU AS A HOMO.
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    Mar 22, 2010 5:55 AM GMT
    True, coming out and being out doesn't mean that everyone has to know....but being out means that friends, family and some colleagues know who you are, who you are dating or in a relationship with etc...and I believe that not being out is tantamount to admitting you're ashamed of something about your orientation.
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    Mar 22, 2010 6:28 AM GMT
    PAJohn saidTigerBeat:

    First of all, coming out is a process, not a destination. You have every right to come out according to your own timetable. Never let anyone pressure you into doing something you are not comfortable with including rushing to come out according to someone else's schedule.

    Second of all, your sexuality is your business and nobody else's. You can stay in the closet, be half in, or be all the way out: it's you choice and nobody else's goddamn business.

    That's why I'm fine with celebrities like (most recently) Sean Hayes from Will and Grace coming out after 10 years in the public eye. He doesn't owe the world an explanation of who he's sleeping: that's his own private business. Same thing with all the other celebrities who've come out before him: David Hyde Pearce, Neil Patrick, Harris, and hundreds of others before them. They should be allowed to come out when they are ready, not when someone forces them to come out. Who a person sleeps with, you, me, a celebrity, anybody, is a private matter; it's simply nobody else's business.

    Also, anybody who says that a person has to choose to be either gay or straight is a complete ass. A person can certainly have feelings for both men and women. If a person is bisexual they should be free to choose who they want to love just as any straight or gay person should be able to choose who they want to love.

    You're 20 years old. You're at the beginning of what will hopefully be a long and happy adult life. Learn to live your life in a way that will make you happy.


    This is so true.
    You come out when and if you are ready and not when someone else is ready for you to come out. It doesn't mean you have to lie or decieve anyone, you just don't have to tell people your personal business. Sins of omission are not sins of commission.
    I'm totally out. I live my life as a person frist and everything else after that. I don't feel the need to tell every person I meet about my sex life. Sexuality is such a small part of who I am that I don't let it define me. If someone asks me then I tell them, but I rarely tell people otherwise. The people who need to know will know and who cares about the rest.
    When I came out I tried hard to fit into the "Tolerant Gay Community", what I found was that it was intolerant of anyone who was different than what each faction of the commubity perceived as norm. It was the most confusing and unhappy time of my life. I tryed to be someone I wasn't and gave up far too much of who I was to fit the ideal of the "Gay Community" around me. I had all of these people telling me what I should think and who I should be. When I went back to being who I was I realized that I was much happier.
    You're 20 years old and you have a lot ahead of you. You make your way the best you can. Be who you are and do what you do. Please yourself, because you can't please everyone!
  • Space_Cowboy_...

    Posts: 3738

    Mar 22, 2010 6:39 AM GMT
    Well I think people should be a bit more understanding to those who are not out because I was there with them at one point and I needed help even though I said I didn't. And coming to this website helped me a lot and still continues to help me icon_biggrin.gif But I agree with what you said.
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    Mar 22, 2010 7:22 AM GMT
    If you're comfortable staying in the closet, then stay in it. I don't see anything wrong with that as who you sleep with or date is no one's business but yours.

    I am closeted and I prefer it this way. There's more to me than my sexuality and in my line of work, it's better this way anyway.

    Am I missing out on things? Perhaps. But I don't fit into nor care much for the gay scene.

    Straight guys don't go around telling everyone they're straight, so why should I need to tell everyone that I'm gay?

    Thankfully, I've surrounded myself with totally open minded people. Even though they wouldn't care and they probably know considering I never girls (or guys), I still don't care to come out to them.

    Now if I were ever to get in a LTR, I would only come out to those close to me as a compromise to other person.
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    Mar 22, 2010 8:29 AM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    PAJohn saidTigerBeat:

    First of all, coming out is a process, not a destination. You have every right to come out according to your own timetable. Never let anyone pressure you into doing something you are not comfortable with including rushing to come out according to someone else's schedule.

    Second of all, your sexuality is your business and nobody else's. You can stay in the closet, be half in, or be all the way out: it's you choice and nobody else's goddamn business.

    That's why I'm fine with celebrities like (most recently) Sean Hayes from Will and Grace coming out after 10 years in the public eye. He doesn't owe the world an explanation of who he's sleeping: that's his own private business. Same thing with all the other celebrities who've come out before him: David Hyde Pearce, Neil Patrick, Harris, and hundreds of others before them. They should be allowed to come out when they are ready, not when someone forces them to come out. Who a person sleeps with, you, me, a celebrity, anybody, is a private matter; it's simply nobody else's business.

    Also, anybody who says that a person has to choose to be either gay or straight is a complete ass. A person can certainly have feelings for both men and women. If a person is bisexual they should be free to choose who they want to love just as any straight or gay person should be able to choose who they want to love.

    You're 20 years old. You're at the beginning of what will hopefully be a long and happy adult life. Learn to live your life in a way that will make you happy.


    This is so true.
    You come out when and if you are ready and not when someone else is ready for you to come out. It doesn't mean you have to lie or decieve anyone, you just don't have to tell people your personal business. Sins of omission are not sins of commission.
    I'm totally out. I live my life as a person frist and everything else after that. I don't feel the need to tell every person I meet about my sex life. Sexuality is such a small part of who I am that I don't let it define me. If someone asks me then I tell them, but I rarely tell people otherwise. The people who need to know will know and who cares about the rest.
    When I came out I tried hard to fit into the "Tolerant Gay Community", what I found was that it was intolerant of anyone who was different than what each faction of the commubity perceived as norm. It was the most confusing and unhappy time of my life. I tryed to be someone I wasn't and gave up far too much of who I was to fit the ideal of the "Gay Community" around me. I had all of these people telling me what I should think and who I should be. When I went back to being who I was I realized that I was much happier.
    You're 20 years old and you have a lot ahead of you. You make your way the best you can. Be who you are and do what you do. Please yourself, because you can't please everyone!


    Yep here, here!
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    Mar 22, 2010 9:21 AM GMT
    xy001 saidIf you're comfortable staying in the closet, then stay in it. I don't see anything wrong with that as who you sleep with or date is no one's business but yours.

    I am closeted and I prefer it this way. There's more to me than my sexuality and in my line of work, it's better this way anyway.

    Am I missing out on things? Perhaps. But I don't fit into nor care much for the gay scene.

    Straight guys don't go around telling everyone they're straight, so why should I need to tell everyone that I'm gay?

    Thankfully, I've surrounded myself with totally open minded people. Even though they wouldn't care and they probably know considering I never girls (or guys), I still don't care to come out to them.

    Now if I were ever to get in a LTR, I would only come out to those close to me as a compromise to other person.



    You ar wrong. Straight people speak out about their sexual orientation. All the time actually. They talk about their wifes and girlfriends, the chics they have dated, the ones they saw on the beach last week end, that they are going to spend the hollidays at their mother in laws... Straight people keep telling me they are straight. All the time. Though they keep doing it without thinking they are.
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    Mar 22, 2010 9:37 AM GMT
    jprswim saidWhen I was a freshman in High School, I was finally able to grasp the concept that I was gay and I did not want to date women. From this realization, I obviously realized that I would be dating men down the road. I was closeted at this time, but thought about how dating would work being in the closet. I imagined I would have to lie about my whereabouts to my family and friends whenever I would see someone I was dating. Also, I did not think it would be fare to a boyfriend if I was closeted. If I loved someone, I would want to be able to shout it and say it to any person and not be ashamed of what our relationship meant. I didn't think this would be a good situation to be in. So at a young age I told myself I would not date until I was out.

    The only reason why I did come out (7 years later) was because I did not want to contribute to the oppression of the LGBTQ community. I was not even happy about being gay but knew I had to do it, especially being the only out male athlete in my school. The process of coming out was difficult but I gained so much more self respect from it and this process alone finally made me happy and proud to be a gay male. Funny how that worked.

    I am fine with others staying in the closet. People can live their lives as they please... but for me to be in an intimate relationship, I need someone who is willing to shout their love. (willing being the key word. it would actually be annoying if he did this everyday. ha)



    for this i might have to fuck you.....very tenderly icon_twisted.gif