Healthcare Reform. Is anyone really reading this crap??

  • azureskyy20

    Posts: 100

    Mar 19, 2010 6:52 AM GMT
    Has anyone actually taken the time to read what's in this healthcare 'reform' bill? I mean seriously...its hundreds of pages and I'm sure 99% of the people that post opionions in the forums haven't even looked at it.

    How about the proposed changes? Has anyone seen them? The biggest problem with this whole thing is that it isn't JUST about healthcare. In the changes proposed recently, its going to affect education just as much. Section 2201-2208 suggest that the federal loan programs will be terminated. Just...wiped away. I'm one of those who benefitted from a government loan. Without federal assistance (that I'm STILL paying back from 10 years ago) I would NOT have been able to continue my education past high school. And the changes would occur as soon as June 1, 2010.

    You can view these amendments here...

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_hr4872_amndsub.pdf

    It just seems that everyone wants to have an opinion based on what they hear or think and could care less about what's actually going on.

    I'm tired of hearing about it too.. whether its unconstitutional or not isn't as big an issue as what exactly is in the bill...that should be the bigger concern.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2010 1:58 PM GMT
    The link is to the reconciliation part of the bill, it denotes the changes in the original legislation.
    Yes, it is confusing; however, it ends the current student loan programs and provides for direct lending—cutting out the middle man (the banks).
    The saving is going to help bring down the deficit, lower the interest rate on the loans, and provide more money to lower income students (pell-grants).
    The down side is a lot of people in the banking industries are going to lose their job.
    The banks have been lobbying hard against this.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 4:07 PM GMT
    "The Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act would cut out the middle man from federal student loan programs and give students the chance to borrow directly from the federal government instead of from banks. The bill, which passed the House in September, would also greatly expand the Pell grant program for low-income students.

    When the bill passed the House it had an estimated savings of $87 billion over ten years. Since then that number has dropped to $67 billion as colleges have joined the “Direct Lending” program and reduced the amount of revenue that would be available for new spending.

    Not surprisingly, banks have lobbied aggressively against the bill. "

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/03/pelosi-house-will-attach-student-loan-reform-to-health-care-bill.html
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 4:11 PM GMT
    azureskyy20,

    With all due respect, you should do your own research instead of listening to half-truths and deceptions. If dustin and I can do a quick google search and come with the same answer, then you wouldn't be posting in here making a complaint that doesn't exist. It's what the Republican obstructionism front has been doing all along since Obama took office and this connection hurts your own credibility.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 19, 2010 4:15 PM GMT
    This is the American political process at work - make everything as complicated and obtuse as possible in an effort to get people to either toe the party line or get so fed up they don't bother.
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    Mar 19, 2010 5:56 PM GMT
    You're right in saying that they're lowering student loan costs by taking the banks out of the picture, and all their exorbitant costs.

    Most bills have all sorts of amendments. That's nothing new.

    Truth be said, the bill protects Big Pharm, Big Med, and Big Insurance, as much as anything, with provisions for extending patents on biological drugs (to 12 years), some tort reform, and so on. While it does help lots of folks with extensions of coverage for adult children, removal of pre-existing exclusions, and various other regulations; some coops...it does not much of anything towards a single payer, and universal coverage. One thing is does, that's not enforcable, it require folks to buy insurance. It's basically corporate welfare for Big Insurance, and really doesn't give us a lot more purchasing power like a single payer / Walmart buyer of health insurance would. It cleans up some Medicare fraud. It fixes some Medicaid stuff.

    Basically, it's the best health care bill that the 100's of millions from Big Pharm, Big Insurance, and Big Med, could buy, with some bones for real reform stuck in. Is it what perfect? Not even. Does it do more than what the GOP has done in decades? Yes. Does it help folks starting as soon as 6 months (It does Logan, because he can go back on his dad's policy when it passes, and he won't be denied coverage for being a type 1 diabetic.) Is it better than anything the GOP has put forth in 80 years? Absolutely. Does it have some more stuff that needs done? Oh, yeah, bunches.

    Something is better than nothing..more of the same greed, and hurt...is not what we should have.

    None of the process being invoked is new. In fact, the GOP has used it more often than The Dems, and have made far more backroom deals, but, they are the masters of spin, scare tactics, and misinformation.

    All bills have riders where stuff gets snuck through. How do you think they criminalized pot? Uh huh.
  • Mikeylikesit

    Posts: 1021

    Mar 19, 2010 6:02 PM GMT
    That has been my point exactly....Everyone is so caught up in the" Moment" that they are not even reading what is IN the bill!!
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    Mar 19, 2010 6:07 PM GMT
    And if you just read the bill, you are only getting a portion of the picture. You also have to read all of the relevant health care standards and regulations, insurance laws, tax laws as well as a massive body of court cases.

    Go ahead and read the whole thing. But I doubt there are many people on here who have the background or the time to completely understand it. If you did, you should be working for the CBO.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2010 6:14 PM GMT
    The legislative process has all sorts of procedures and concessions. It's not a pure thing like some of of us might envision it.

    It's too bad that's not a stipulation that says a bill can only deal with one issue, but, that's not the way it is.

    Lots of controversial law, e.g. drug law, gets tucked onto another bill at the very end and snuck through.
  • Mikeylikesit

    Posts: 1021

    Mar 19, 2010 6:16 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidAnd if you just read the bill, you are only getting a portion of the picture. You also have to read all of the relevant health care standards and regulations, insurance laws, tax laws as well as a massive body of court cases.

    Go ahead and read the whole thing. But I doubt there are many people on here who have the background or the time to completely understand it. If you did, you should be working for the CBO.


    I am not talking about us....LOL....WE are not the ones voting on it....It has to be the congress men....whom I doubt very highly read the bill nor know everything in it....LOL
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2010 6:22 PM GMT
    It's a little rich for Nancy Pelosi to get shot down for her (admittedly stupid) "you can read it when it passes" comment, but since the bill is available, what percentage of those complaining about Obama's transparency actually READ it!?!? I think low.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 6:43 PM GMT
    Mikeylikesit saidThat has been my point exactly....Everyone is so caught up in the" Moment" that they are not even reading what is IN the bill!!
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    Yeah, perhaps if Boehner and the Republicans read it, he wouldn't be criticizing it so falsely.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2010 7:14 PM GMT
    The bill does far more good than bad. Many of the items in the bills were concessions made to the GOP.

    I think it's awesome that they took on some major interests of the very rich in the bill: Big Pharm, Big Med, Big Insurance, and Big Banks.

    For years, banks have lined up at the trough for federally insured student loans. It makes ZERO sense for them to be in the middle, other than lining their coffers, and it's about time they were taken out of the picture. They simple threw all the toxic paper back at The Fed, and kept the good stuff for themselves. Corporate welfare at its finest. Now, with the new bill, the banks are out of the picture. The student loan business for FISL is DONE with regard to banks. About fucking time. Like insurance, those banks haven't added value, have passed along the risk to others, or not provided insurance, and have kept the goods ones for themselves, while adding 20% to 30% to the costs and only lowering value of the program. Direct Lending keeps all the paper, the good, and the bad, with The Fed, and drops that profit taking out of the program that the banks should never have been in the middle of to begin with. The added no value. They banks loved it, of course, because there was no risk for them, and pure profit.....don't we all wish we had such a gig?
  • ep83

    Posts: 144

    Mar 19, 2010 7:36 PM GMT
    Obviously people aren't reading it...

  • Mikeylikesit

    Posts: 1021

    Mar 19, 2010 7:50 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    Mikeylikesit saidThat has been my point exactly....Everyone is so caught up in the" Moment" that they are not even reading what is IN the bill!!
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    Yeah, perhaps if Boehner and the Republicans read it, he wouldn't be criticizing it so falsely.


    Maybe Pelosi should read it so she knows what the fuck shes talking about...LOL
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  • mascguymia

    Posts: 30

    Mar 19, 2010 7:52 PM GMT
    More should be done to lower healthcare costs rather than a huge government takeover...
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    Mar 19, 2010 8:01 PM GMT
    Mikeylikesit said
    coolarmydude said
    Mikeylikesit saidThat has been my point exactly....Everyone is so caught up in the" Moment" that they are not even reading what is IN the bill!!
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    Yeah, perhaps if Boehner and the Republicans read it, he wouldn't be criticizing it so falsely.


    Maybe Pelosi should read it so she knows what the fuck shes talking about...LOL
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    What makes you say Pelosi hasn't read it? What makes you think that no one has read the bill? You keep saying it, but you are so "caught up in the moment" you aren't actually paying attention to what is going on.
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    Mar 19, 2010 8:22 PM GMT
    mascguymia saidMore should be done to lower healthcare costs rather than a huge government takeover...


    There is no government takeover of health care in any way, shape or form in this bill. If you want to bash the bill, please stick to the facts.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 8:41 PM GMT
    Mikeylikesit said
    coolarmydude said
    Mikeylikesit saidThat has been my point exactly....Everyone is so caught up in the" Moment" that they are not even reading what is IN the bill!!
    icon_question.gificon_evil.gif



    Yeah, perhaps if Boehner and the Republicans read it, he wouldn't be criticizing it so falsely.


    Maybe Pelosi should read it so she knows what the fuck shes talking about...LOL
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    Didn't you Republicans complain that she wrote it?!! You're the first one that needs healthcare for Alzheimer's!
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 8:42 PM GMT
    Remember COSTA RICA!!

    I want to see some conservative coronaries!!


    DEEM & PASS THE BILL!! REEM THE REPUBLICAN ASS!!

    Elephant-vs-Donkey.jpg
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Mar 19, 2010 9:06 PM GMT
    I am so sick and damned tired about hearing about this health care reform that I am ready to vomit. Just pass the damn thing and get it done and over with. Then lets move onto other important issues facing our great country.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidI am so sick and damned tired about hearing about this health care reform that I am ready to vomit. Just pass the damn thing and get it done and over with. Then lets move onto other important issues facing our great country.


    I completely agree. But the truth is that more will need to be done at some point and the Republicans are going to try to remove it. This chapter will close, but the war on healthcare reform is far from over. It has turned into a drag, but that's what happens when substantive policy proposals meet disinformation and fear mongering.
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    Mar 19, 2010 11:24 PM GMT


    "Fact: The government will compel citizens to purchase health insurance.

    Fact: This is unconstitutional."



    How's that Kool-aid taste southbeach?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2010 11:42 PM GMT
    Count me in the 1% that has read it and still sees more on the plus side than the minus side.
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    Mar 19, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    ep83 saidObviously people aren't reading it...



    You mean people actually go out and protest with little to no information backing their beliefs? I was raised if you don't know what you are talking about to keep your mouth shut and it seems like there are a lot of people out there who need to do just that...