Should gays go to churches that don't "officially" support them?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2008 4:41 AM GMT
    I'm on the fence about this one. A friend of mine attends a Catholic church. Officially the Vatican in Rome does not support gay rights, but my friend doesn't care.

    I was raised Catholic but have been going to a Unitarian church because they full out support gay people. The Catholic church is kind of softcore on the issue, you know, love the sinner. I would feel uncomfortable being considered a second class citizen in any church.

    What's your opinion/experience? Should we give our time (and money) to churches that condemn homosexuality?

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2008 4:43 AM GMT
    No.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 22, 2008 11:17 AM GMT
    I'm pretty much anti-organized religion period
    ... I just don't see the point of taking part of a group who view you as a pariah

    If I did I'd be a republican
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2008 11:55 AM GMT
    No. I don't even think we should be supporting 'churches' at all (inclusive, of course, mosques, temples, etc.)

    I don't like organized religion. If you're spiritual, then be spiritual in your own way, not by how some pope/buddha/lama/caliph/high priest etc. sees it.

    Besides... I'm atheist. icon_razz.gif On paper, I'm Catholic too, though. They've adopted a new approach on homosexuality: "love the people, hate the lifestyle". As if saying that the only way we can be accepted to paradise is by being miserable.

    I see so much abuse of the power held by heads of organized religion (Fred Phelps anyone? That s%$^#^#ch should burn in his own hell), that I've personally given up on them. Doesn't mean, I'm anti religion. I respect other people's beliefs, but if they can't respect mine...

    *shrugs*
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 22, 2008 12:43 PM GMT
    I'm probably pretty lucky when it comes to the religion question. I'm an Episcopalian and actually sit on the Board of a gay related organization that meets at the church I attended as a small child. I'm very comfortable with the whole thing.

    For me, being gay is one dimension of many that make up who I am... I think if the church you attend addresses issues you think are helpful (aside from the gay issue), then do what you feel is appropriate. I don't think I could support a church that has been an outspoken critic of gays.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2008 1:37 PM GMT
    Your support or not reflect your value, either God is more important or being gay is more important. So depend on what you think is most important to you.

    I have supported churches don't care for gay issues because I've seen how thye help out people and how they spend their money. While I have also attend gay churches and did not support them cause they don't touch anyone's life except spend more money on flower arrangement then anything else.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jan 23, 2008 12:59 AM GMT
    At the risk of being called names, and insulted again, by the one and only. I will risk posting here.

    If the gay issue is the only reason you will not go, or support a church, then you need to get over it. Do you expect every church to be 100% correct on everything icon_question.gif

    Their not, and never will be, but you could teach them a thing or two, by attending, and being seen to attend, and by living you life with your partner (or what ever) and being seen to be happy. Can you imagine the impact that would have on your church.

    Do you, or did you, go to church to be with the priest, or with God icon_question.gif If your answer is God, then I don't understand why you would stay away.

    Mike
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 1:42 AM GMT
    God is supposed to be all powerful and all knowing and yet people admit he's not? Why worship at all when we can't even agree on what the word or intent of some fantasy fable.

    Or worse, if you believe man doesn't know the true meaning of god then why bother worshiping, since none of us know the answer. It's comparable to me saying a flying monster is god and has given me divine wisdom that you can only enter heaven by following my instructions. Now tell me why I'm full of BS and any religion is not.

    Just my opinions. My family stopped asked me to attend mass with them once they knew I was gay so I'm lucky I guess icon_razz.gif
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    Jan 23, 2008 1:49 AM GMT
    To me it just isn't a matter of GLBT issues it is a matter of whether or not a church's core beliefs are in line with mine. Christianity has not nor ever will work for me even though I was raised that way.

    I don't understand how some gays make it work in a church that condemns them, but then I don't understand how my DVD player works either. So long as it works for you, that's all that counts in my book.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jan 23, 2008 2:13 AM GMT
    Gays should do whatever they want to do. What good is fighting for your rights if we are telling each other what we can and can't do?

    There are many reasons why someone would choose to belong to a church, and most of them probably have to do with the interaction they have with the other members of the congregation.

  • shoelessj

    Posts: 511

    Jan 23, 2008 2:16 AM GMT
    I'm a torn and conflicted Catholic, as well. There are some really great progressive catholics and priests and then there are a lot of hateful catholics and hateful [and repressed homosexual] priests. I believe more in the underlying message of jesus and faith then what the haters say. Besides, why leave what could be a great institution to the people who just would love 'our type' to go away anyway?

    That being said, the episcopalians do sound appealing at times, especially when the pope says something stupid and hateful, which happens more and more these days.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 2:16 AM GMT
    I feel like the issue is that it's your church. You should not have to leave it if you feel it is where you belong. I have many straight Catholic friends who disagree with the Church's position on many issues. They're pro-choice and they love the gays, but they're still Catholics. For them, belonging to the Church is like belonging to a family: just because you disagree with the opinions of some of its powerful members doesn't mean you have less right to be there. The Church might want people like them to go away, but they won't.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jan 23, 2008 2:38 AM GMT
    Even If you believe in the legend of god why do you need to give money to and hang out with people who say we are sinners and evil people?

    IF you want to worship some imaginary supreme being , then you should be able to do it YOURSELF without a hierarchy of paid people to tell you how to do it.
    so my answer is a resounding NO!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 3:06 AM GMT
    Gays shouldn't go to church, they should go to brunch. Get a grip.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 3:22 AM GMT
    Why live yet another lie? If your church can't accept you for what you are, why should you be there? According to Christianity, Jesus taught tolerance, not hate and discrimination. Further, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. I can go on for many pages on my interpretations and understandings with regards to Christianity and being gay. Simply put, I feel that Christianity is rather bigoted. As such, a church that is anti-gay is not very fiducial.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 3:41 AM GMT
    No.

    I'm not sure what you're on the fence about - seems to me you've already made the decision that you want to be in a church that supports gays (Unitarian).

    Now if you'd said you were Catholic like your friend and you were contemplating wether to stay or to go, you should go. Especially if you want to change the church. You don't change the church from within. As long as you are there and paying money - you are an audience and not part of the production. You don't change the church. The church hierarch does not take orders from the congregation - in Catholism. The church however does respond to diminished attendance.

    Also, financing the church means financing its message about gay lifestyle in public ways that you as an individual usually do not have the platform to counter-attack. Think of it this way, as long as you are a quiet gay listening to the sermon, you're welcome there. But, open up a gay advocacy group at the church and see if you don't get asked to leave. Be a big gay name in the community and see if you are still welcome at the Church. The louder and gayer you act, the Church will feel compelled to attack you as a voice of unethical influence in society.

    So if you're going to go to a church that doesn't support gays, remember to be very quiet. And don't sit in the front row. Shhh.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:20 AM GMT

    My tax system is against me, yet I pay.
    My country is ignoring me, yet I stay.
    The law system might be stupid, yet I obey.
    My insurance is an outrage, yet I got one anyway
    My classmate belittle me, yet I attend.
    My family is dysfunction, yet what can I say.
    My company's being unfair, but I'm still gonna be there.


    But when it comes to being gay, God for bid if He got a say. The preaching should please me, or else stay out of my way. No church can hold me, and I'll deny Him to His face. For I will not put up, and I will not stay. I got one life to live, and I'm proud to be gay.




    (It's not my believe, but i'm surprise i can make it rhyme!)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:24 AM GMT
    I'm an atheist so my perspective will have to be "hell no!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:35 AM GMT
    icon_idea.gifWhy not? If you want to go to a church or other place of worship, do it. Just watch out for those evil ex-gay orginizations they will try there hardest to suck you in. don't let them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:40 AM GMT
    - ebl333

    My tax system is against me, yet I pay.
    - Vote to end the income tax icon_wink.gif
    My country is ignoring me, yet I stay.
    - Welcome to America-post republic. Here the authoritarians only care about you for majority votes. Then they just aim to please "special interest groups" and the party
    The law system might be stupid, yet I obey.
    - It's illegal to bounce pickles twice in Hartford. I agree
    My insurance is an outrage, yet I got one anyway
    - Move to NH? No need for auto insurance
    My classmate belittle me, yet I attend.
    - Beat them up
    My family is dysfunction, yet what can I say.
    - Mine have the same disease icon_biggrin.gif
    My company's being unfair, but I'm still gonna be there.
    - That's your choice

    What was the topic again?




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    Appreciate the comments, guys.

    I don't picture myself becoming a Catholic again.

    BUT I was surprised to learn that here in L.A., at Saint Victor's Catholic Church in West Hollywood, they on their website state they welcome everyone regardless of sexual orientation. Gay outreach is one of their goals, according to a friend. That got me thinking: For some gays, perhaps it's better to pick a welcoming church -- not necessarily a whole religion. Why should people be forced out of the religion of their choice? Maybe they can stay put, be who they are, and change opinions from a grassroots level?

    Just a thoughticon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    Yes I think we should. I was also raised a catholic and I continued to go to the Catholic Church. The reason that I continue to go is because I believe in god and the saints. Everywhere else they pray to the same god so there is no reason to go to another church. Despite the church’s position on gays, I still enjoy going to the church because in the end God is the only one that can judge me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    In the long run, it's your decision, but I'll give you the reasons that I've decided to remain a gay Catholic.

    First of all, as some other posters have pointed out, your sexuality does not have to define every aspect of your life. You're never going to agree 100% with your church, or really anything for that matter. This doesn't mean that these things evil. I find that the Catholic faith is a beautiful one filled with messages that have helped guide my life and traditions that are very meaningful.

    Are you ready to have your minds blown? A large part of the reason I am out of the closet- my God and my faith. Honestly, I don't think I would have figured things out if it wasn't for this foundation.

    I also believe that change needs to come from within. I love my faith, so I refuse to abandon it. Not to mention, there are some wonderful people in the Catholic church. My priest was the 6th person I outed myself too. Did he condemn me? No. He was incredibly supportive. Although he could never marry me, he made it clear that he was hoping that someday it would be a possibility.

    Ok, now as far as organized religion goes, here's what I think. Why would I want to turn my back on 2000+ years of tradition and religious thought. We all need a foundation on which to base what we do and do not believe. I was raised Catholic, and continue to believe it is the best fit for me (albeit not a perfect one), for various reasons. Perhaps if I had 2000 years of my own to figure things out, it might be a different story.

    In the end, we all need to make our own decisions. I don't however appreciate the posts that encourage the total denial of the existence of a God. Isn't that also forcing your views onto someone else? I for one believe that my life is what it is and I have come as far as I have because of a higher power, but I won't judge you if you don't agree.
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    Jan 23, 2008 5:37 AM GMT
    danwestla saidI'm on the fence about this one. A friend of mine attends a Catholic church. Officially the Vatican in Rome does not support gay rights, but my friend doesn't care.

    I was raised Catholic but have been going to a Unitarian church because they full out support gay people. The Catholic church is kind of softcore on the issue, you know, love the sinner. I would feel uncomfortable being considered a second class citizen in any church.

    What's your opinion/experience? Should we give our time (and money) to churches that condemn homosexuality?

    I'm one of those gay guys who still attends Mass.

    Technically, you're not a second class citizen in the Catholic Church. If you wish to bring up marriage or the priesthood, you have to realize that both these sacraments exclude vast numbers of people and have exact definitions that may seem unfair. What is actually unfair is when the rules regarding these sacraments are not followed, such as when old people or persons known to be sterile are allowed to marry. The degree to which the rules on doctrines and sacraments are followed varies from region to region. As far as necessary beliefs, there are the dogmas, which only have to do with the nature of God and Mary.

    Your sexuality should never determine which religion you practice. Being gay shouldn't make one "more right" than another, just like being straight shouldn't.

    If you feel yourself to be Christian, you're in luck having been raised Catholic. As a Catholic you enjoy the fullness of faith, the saints, God, tradition, and divine beauty. As a Catholic you'll practice the same form of Christianity the Apostles did and not one that was invented 1,500 or more years after Christ's death.

    Remember that we all have our particular cross to bear, that some people might be opposed to us is ours.

    As for gays within the Church, we have several saints to guide us: St. Sebastian, Sts. Bacchus & Sergius, Sts. Cyril & Methodius, and more.
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Jan 23, 2008 5:41 AM GMT
    I attend a non-denominational Christian church in North Hollywood. My pastor is gay.