New poll from Gallup show that passage of the historic HCR bill has already had an impact - that could push some out-of-control right-wingers over the edge.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 24, 2010 6:16 AM GMT
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx

    If you check out the link, you'll find that the margin isn't really slim at all.
    Approve passage is 49%
    Disapprove passage is 40%

    That's an UH-OH for you Repubs and "Independents"
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    Mar 24, 2010 6:21 AM GMT
    rickrick91 saidhttp://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx
    If you check out the link, you'll find that the margin isn't really slim at all.
    Approve passage is 49%
    Disapprove passage is 40%

    That's an UH-OH for you Repubs and "Independents"
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    Mar 24, 2010 6:24 AM GMT
    Wait until the 32 million start getting insurance coverage. The enthusiasm will go up.

    For me, it says I can be sure of getting insurance even tho I have a preƫxisting condition.
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    Mar 24, 2010 3:10 PM GMT
    This doesn't surprise me. Now that the news is actually talking about the content of the bill and less about the political theater that surrounded the debate and lead up to the vote.
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    Mar 25, 2010 2:12 AM GMT
    Wow, NO responses from the right-wing trolls of RJ?
    Now why would that be?.
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    Mar 25, 2010 6:24 AM GMT
    Thank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....
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    Mar 25, 2010 3:33 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidThank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....


    I am sorry public education failed you.
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    Mar 25, 2010 3:36 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidThank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....


    Haven't you been 46 for a few years now? You've been telling us for a few years that you're 46. Maybe as an "independent" you use independent math.
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    Mar 25, 2010 3:52 PM GMT
    I dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.
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    Mar 25, 2010 3:53 PM GMT
    Of all the things to be conservative about, this is the most dick-ish.

    The neo-conservative line, that often has infiltrated the ranks of those like the Tea Baggers, is never to look at foreign policy. And the scapegoat becomes what everyone in their moral minds would consider, the right thing.
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:03 PM GMT
    YoungJock4 saidI dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.


    No one is arguing that HCR will be free. So, his whole argument is a strawman. In addition to being a strawman it is a rambling incoherent mess.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Mar 25, 2010 4:06 PM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/opinion/25collins.html?ref=opinion
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:10 PM GMT
    MonkeyPuck said
    YoungJock4 saidI dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.


    No one is arguing that HCR will be free. So, his whole argument is a strawman. In addition to being a strawman it is a rambling incoherent mess.


    I don't see how his opinion is a straw argument at all... he has a valid point to make. I think it's kind of immature for you to yell its incoherent and bash the guy's education just because you don't agree.
  • Timbales

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    Mar 25, 2010 4:18 PM GMT
    Can anyone explain the reasoning behind capping flexible spending accounts?
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:20 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidThank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....


    Sadly very few people understand the fact that there is no such thing as a "free lunch" (which is why I think a basic economics education should be part of our educational system). Or maybe they do understand and just don't care where the money comes from because they think it comes from an evil corporation or rich person who probably is justified in being rich in the first place.

    I think it is great that we are moving toward getting children and those who are struggling access to medical care...and I agree 100% that no family should go BK becasue of a sick child. The problem I see with the current bill is that it did nothing to increase the supply of medical care, only increased demand for it. Limited supply of medical care + expanding and increasingly inelastic demand = higher prices. With demand becoming more inelastic as more and more people are removed from the actual purchase of medical treatment i.e. when they get "free" treatment or simply due to the structure of the insurance system, they don't care how much it costs. This all points to growing costs of medical care and thus higher insurance premiums, which is what I thought one of the problems was all along...
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:23 PM GMT
    YoungJock4 said
    MonkeyPuck said
    YoungJock4 saidI dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.


    No one is arguing that HCR will be free. So, his whole argument is a strawman. In addition to being a strawman it is a rambling incoherent mess.


    I don't see how his opinion is a straw argument at all... he has a valid point to make. I think it's kind of immature for you to yell its incoherent and bash the guy's education just because you don't agree.


    Welcome to the RJ forums.
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:44 PM GMT
    YoungJock4 said
    MonkeyPuck said
    YoungJock4 saidI dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.


    No one is arguing that HCR will be free. So, his whole argument is a strawman. In addition to being a strawman it is a rambling incoherent mess.


    I don't see how his opinion is a straw argument at all... he has a valid point to make. I think it's kind of immature for you to yell its incoherent and bash the guy's education just because you don't agree.


    I don't disagree with him. The bill is going to cost money.

    It is a strawman because he arguing against the idea that the bill will not have a cost. No one is arguing that the bill would have no cost. He created an argument to argue against. That is a strawman.

    You are more than welcome to think I am immature, but given comments were written I am going to have to say that I didn't yell anything.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Mar 25, 2010 4:47 PM GMT
    MonkeyPuck said
    Triggerman saidThank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....


    I am sorry public education failed you.


    That's fine, you're right. But how much will health care cost in the years to come? How does health care costs keep inflating year after year in constant annual double digit percentages over the last twenty years while the economy and dollar does not? It's like a legal mafia, pay or die. If not for some kind of government interjection how would any of us be able to afford it in twenty or thirty years?
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    Mar 25, 2010 4:55 PM GMT
    MonkeyPuck said
    YoungJock4 said
    MonkeyPuck said
    YoungJock4 saidI dont think that's very fair to attack the guy like that... I agree that insuring people who don't have insurance is a good thing, but the man's point isn't any less valid... somebody will have to pick up the slack, money just doesnt appear out of nowhere.


    No one is arguing that HCR will be free. So, his whole argument is a strawman. In addition to being a strawman it is a rambling incoherent mess.


    I don't see how his opinion is a straw argument at all... he has a valid point to make. I think it's kind of immature for you to yell its incoherent and bash the guy's education just because you don't agree.


    I don't disagree with him. The bill is going to cost money.

    It is a strawman because he arguing against the idea that the bill will not have a cost. No one is arguing that the bill would have no cost. He created an argument to argue against. That is a strawman.

    You are more than welcome to think I am immature, but given comments were written I am going to have to say that I didn't yell anything.


    Well i know you didn't "yell" anything poor word choice on my part... but with your logic I could seemingly take any opinion or point and declare it "straw". I also think the more important aspect of a straw argument is the logical fallacie portion of it. which his opinion didn't attempt to make any.
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    Celticmusl said
    MonkeyPuck said
    Triggerman saidThank god I am 46. And I am self-insured. I am old enough to know nothing is free. When this kicks in, I will be 50 and retired. Nothing is free. Someone is paying more for the people who will get benefits and pay nothing. You who are young and just now starting to work? haha What can I say? This is on you. If it works, awesome. If not, someone is paying for it. Not us old guys. You wanted it? Well, you got it. It is simple math. Someone is going to pay. 2= 1+1. Medical care costs money. Those that do not have it will now get it and it is not free. So, who is paying for it? The government? The government is just the group that taxes you. So, you young kids can say the government will pay. Which, in reality, means you will pay. Someone pays. Doctors do not work for free.

    Not a Republican or Democrat point of view. Just a business man's point of view. Someone pays....


    I am sorry public education failed you.


    That's fine, you're right. But how much will health care cost in the years to come? How does health care costs keep inflating year after year in constant annual double digit percentages over the last twenty years while the economy and dollar does not? It's like a legal mafia, pay or die. If not for some kind of government interjection how would any of us be able to afford it in twenty or thirty years?


    I 100% agree with this. I really hope that they will end up passing some more legislation that not only grants people healthcare, but addresses its inflated cost.
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
    YoungJock4 said
    Well i know you didn't "yell" anything poor word choice on my part... but with your logic I could seemingly take any opinion or point and declare it "straw". I also think the more important aspect of a straw argument is the logical fallacie portion of it. which his opinion didn't attempt to make any.


    No, it isn't like you would apply it to a movie review or some other opinion piece. The poster was venturing into a debate about healthcare and the argument the poster was making was making was that HCR was going to cost money. He was saying that as if there was an argument that it wasn't. This is a logical fallacy in debate plain and simple.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:05 PM GMT
    well then aren't you just making a logical fallacie that all people are aware of its cost? which means by you calling it a straw argument. you are making your own straw argument? : P
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:07 PM GMT
    MonkeyPuck saidI don't disagree with him. The bill is going to cost money.

    It is a strawman because he arguing against the idea that the bill will not have a cost. No one is arguing that the bill would have no cost. He created an argument to argue against. That is a strawman.

    You are more than welcome to think I am immature, but given comments were written I am going to have to say that I didn't yell anything.

    I do not find you immature, but rather sophisticated. The health care bill comes with costs, along with economic benefits, as well as societal ones. I believe the benefits will outweigh the costs for most Americans. At times you spend money to ultimately save money.

    The ones who will not make more money are certain corporations, primarily in the insurance industry. Those interests are the real concerns of Republican lawmakers, not the welfare of the American people. Once you understand the actual motivation of Republicans in public office, then you can sort out this debate very easily. The stumbling block is all the disinformation the Republicans throw out, which conceals and camouflages their true objectives.

    Business first, citizens second. Citizens are the fodder for business, in the Republican model. Any good to citizens must derive from corporate success, and the interests of individual people must always be a second priority. If you analyze Republican legislation and policy, this pattern is obvious & undeniable.

    No wonder that Thomas Jefferson, who championed the concept that all authority is derived from the people in a democracy, was purged from Texas school books not 2 weeks ago. Along with all mention of the very word democracy itself. Is that not more than a bit suggestive about where these people are coming from?
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:12 PM GMT
    oh texas... what the hell?!... haha
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    Mar 25, 2010 5:17 PM GMT
    YoungJock4 saidoh texas... what the hell?!... haha

    Yeah, I know, I lived there 4 years, compliments of the US Army. But because of the economics of school text book publishing, what the Texas state school board has decided, will appear in text books all over the US. Publishers can't afford to print multiple versions of books, so the Texas model will prevail across the US. Isn't it interesting, and quite clever, that US conservatives targeted the Texas state board with tons of money, to get their adherents elected?