The hypocrisy is inexcusable...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 25, 2010 11:23 PM GMT
    Read this article from The New Republic (A Conservative Magazine, BTW...):

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan
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    Mar 26, 2010 12:14 AM GMT
    "Obama is signing what was, until recently, a moderate Republican health care plan by every substantive comparison or definition. The unanimity of Republican opposition says more about Republicans than it does about the plan itself."

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan

    Too bad most have no idea this was all going on; they would rather listen to pundants instead of doing any substantial research of their own—Google is just too hard.
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    Mar 26, 2010 1:13 AM GMT
    So true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 26, 2010 1:45 AM GMT
    That is now posted on my facebook page. Thanks!
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    Mar 26, 2010 2:58 AM GMT
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Mar 26, 2010 3:53 AM GMT
    calibro said
    couture said
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.


    where in the constitution does it say the government can't pass laws to make you buy something, say... like car insurance, food for your children, identification cards, or remediation for any damage you cause (which is does)? Plus, they are fining you if you don't. I'm pretty sure the federal government can fine you all it wants for not abiding by the law, which is to have insurance (technically, not the same thing as forcing you to buy it).
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Mar 26, 2010 3:55 AM GMT
    couture said
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.


    Since this is going to be brought to the courts, we'll see what they have to say about it. I was not a fan of mandatory health care, but I think I can handle the government levying the fines (that doesn't go into effect until 2014, btw) in the current Law. If found, truly, unconstitutional, that provision will be dealt with in accordance to our Constitution. In other words, Big Fucking Deal. We're paying for 2 illegal wars and a bunch of other crap that we don't need; $95 (in 2014) is the least of my concerns.

    [Edit: Calibro, he's talking about the interpretation of the 10th Amendment that Republican lawyers have, in a weak attempt to thwart this new Health Care Reform Law. It's a waste of taxpayer money and I hope they get really embarrassed. Republicans, keep your hands off our moderate republican health care.]
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    Mar 26, 2010 4:22 AM GMT
    couture said
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.


    So what you're saying is that Republican ideas are "terrible things." Glad to see you're bipartisan.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Mar 26, 2010 6:04 AM GMT
    couture said
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.




    Do you have a choice about whether or not there is a deduction from your pay check for Social Security ?
    Do you have a choice whether or not you pay income taxes ?
    Ever look at all the taxes listed on your telephone bill ?
    How about gasoline taxes, cigarette taxes, liquor taxes, sales taxes ?
    Did you have any choice about those ?

    Requiring everyone to have health insurance is no different.

    So, your Constitutional argument doesn't hold water.


    BTW, just what are all the "terrible" things in the new health care legislation ?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2010 6:22 AM GMT
    As I have said for some time, the only coherent voice in right wing politics in the USA is Obama.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Mar 27, 2010 2:54 AM GMT


  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Mar 28, 2010 3:21 AM GMT
    couture said
    Riptide42 saidSo true. Most just want to believe what they hear and not do their homework...



    Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything.


    au contraire... Justice Scalia seems it can...

    http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-constitutionality27-2010mar27,0,4134761.story?track=rss

    a highlight...

    "At issue in that case -- just like in the upcoming challenges to the healthcare overhaul -- was the reach of the federal government's power.

    Conservative Justices Antonin Scalia and Anthony M. Kennedy joined a 6-3 ruling that said Congress could regulate marijuana that was neither bought nor sold on the market but rather grown at home legally for sick patients.

    They said the Constitution gave Congress nearly unlimited power to regulate the marketplace as part of its authority "to regulate commerce."

    Even "noneconomic local activity" can come under federal regulation if it is "a necessary part of a more general regulation of interstate commerce," Scalia wrote."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2010 3:57 AM GMT
    Couture said-"Yes, many of those supporting this bill are not aware of all the terrible things in it, not to mention that it is not constitutional for the federal government to force a citizen to purchase anything."

    So many here have latched on to the alledged fact that the Healthcare Reform bill passed and signed into law, part of which will require beginning in 2014 that all persons without insurance buy it or be subject to a fine. So since I am not versed in constitutional law nor do have the ear of any supreme court justice, I decided to look for myself. So I go to the library and do some research (got the constitution) and lo and behold,if this makes it to the Supreme Court, I believe the law will stand based on:

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 1. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."

    Insurance is essentially commerce and this Constitutional Article specifies Congress's power regarding commerce. While the states have a right to sue, if the high court even hears the case, I have a firm belief this case will be denied based on the commerce clause, given the make up of the court. That is the extent to my research and knowledge thus far of the constitutionality of this law. I don't agree with the mandate (though at the moment I can't think of a better way), but I believe it will hold up under scrutiny by the Constitution.