CAN WE DO THIS... Bernanke endorsed the concept of a short-term economic stimulus package, but he cautioned that the money must be spent correctly: "You'd hope that [consumers] would spend it on things that are domestically produced so that the spending power doesn't go elsewhere."

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 5:44 PM GMT
    Can we restrict our spending to American-made (or whatever country you are in)?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:00 PM GMT
    i dont see how. and i'm not gonna use a bunch of textbook terms. except maybe economic evolution. england WAS an armpit of production. but then as wages went up it became to expensive and the country moved towards less labour intensive areas. so production gets moved to, somewhere else. until it gets too expensive there. Ukraine has been important in the production of fabrics and clothing production for europe in the last little while. but as their government stabilizes their wages iwll go up. and production will move again. even Chinese wages are going up. and theres only so long that they can keep making new production towns further and further inland to the point where it won't be competitively advantageous anymore.

    so basically. this guy says no. even arcteryx, an outdoor clothing brand which used to be all made in canada, couldnt keep all it's production locally. people arent willing to pay the price for certain things manufactured here. but production will move around the globe following lowest costs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:14 PM GMT
    Just some excerpts from Sun Tzu's Art of War. I find this illuminating.

    II. WAGING WAR

    1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.
    2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.
    3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.
    4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.
    5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
    6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
    7. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
    8. The skillful soldier does not raise a second levy, neither are his supply-wagons loaded more than twice.
    9. Bring war material with you from home, but forage on the enemy. Thus the army will have food enough for its needs.
    10. Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished.
    11. On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's substance to be drained away.
    12. When their substance is drained away, the peasantry will be afflicted by heavy exactions.
    13,14. With this loss of substance and exhaustion of strength, the homes of the people will be stripped bare, and three-tenths of their income will be dissipated; while government expenses for broken chariots, worn-out horses, breast-plates and helmets, bows and arrows, spears and shields, protective mantles, draught-oxen and heavy wagons, will amount to four-tenths of its total revenue.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:25 PM GMT
    What is with these assholes in the white house. I think most americans who would benefit from the stimulus package will probably spend the money on gas, mortgages, bills, tuition and groceries. It is not as if they are dolling out thousands of dollars to each family. It is a bit like Marie Antoinette thinking people should eat american made cake. Are they so out of touch that they don't know how nervous everyone is. Giving people an extra few hundred dollars to go shopping seems a little ridiculous.
    I own a small business selling higher end luxury goods and as much as I like to think it would increase business, I know better.

    Ps. I love the word asshole and I use it a lot. and douchebag, I love that word too. my apologies.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
    I quite agree with mnjock. I think most people are going to worry less about keeping the power on, keeping the fridge full, and being able to drive to work so they can keep their job.

    I think whatever we get back is going to be intentionally spent on locally grown produce.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:41 PM GMT
    Ok, I was also thinking along the lines of....how can we find american products to buy? Is there a website for "American Made," so that folks can avoid buying "foreign," esp. chinese?

    And can we discipline ourselves and be willing to pay the extra to buy domestic?

    Also, Canada is now the biggest supplier of oil to the US and the US's biggest trading partner. Can we increase our oil imports from Canada and likewise have Canada buy more from us?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:44 PM GMT
    We can, but I know that most people will be hesitant or not capable of doing so.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:47 PM GMT
    Do you know of a site that tracks American Made, FF?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:51 PM GMT
    icon_cool.gif

    [url]http://www.google.com/search?q=american+made+products&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USicon_surprised.giffficial&client=firefox-a[/url]

    it seems that RJ's url parser is flakey.

    google search for american made products should work better ;)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:51 PM GMT
    The problem with boycotting chinese products or products from the middle east is that they own most of our currency and financial institutions. If they sensed that we were hostile towards their imported goods, they could pull out their money and our economy would continue to spiral. We have just been complacent for too long. Like I said, a few hundred dollars is a pretty meaningless solution.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:53 PM GMT
    here's an example.

    buying a spatula. just a simple spatula. do you wanna spend 1$ or 5$? cuz those 4 dollars could be put towards either, 4 other small things, or one big ticket item. and if those spatulas are of equal quality, are you going to spend the EXTRA 4$ on a spatula?

    with the recent canadian dollar coming into a bit more power alot of people went to the US to buy cars. and there's a huge possibility that the car they bought, if a GM, was made in canada. people want to save money. canadian car dealers didnt drop their prices much to match down to the US prices. and this sint even thinking about tax differences.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 6:57 PM GMT
    Stimulus package??? How about repealing the legislations that have been allowing credit companies to rape and pillage customers, while also making discharge of credit debt more difficult through bankruptcy.

    Which would you rather have: 1) a couple hundred dollars one time or 2) a drop in what fees are allowed to be charged by credit card companies and lower rates which could save you much more and open up your willingness to utilize these tools. The higher the interest rates the more you want to paying them off rather than purchase more creature comforts.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 7:10 PM GMT
    OHhiker, to be technically accurate - with our modern financial system, I am suppressing our economy rather than improving it. How? By not spending more than I make and by refusing to use credit cards.

    As such, I personally would rather have the refund. For the whole, I would have lower limits to rates. But we all know that it'll be a pig in a poke. Lowering interest rates will just be proportionately made up elsewhere. Greed begets greed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 7:18 PM GMT
    Here are a few sites from a google search:

    StillMadeinUSA.com

    Buyamerican.com

    American Made Products Directory
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 7:54 PM GMT
    Unfortunately, it's not all that simple. Some of the Chinese goods that get listed as "foreign made" are made from raw materials and components manufactured or mined here in the US.

    We're truly part of a global economy - and to think that we can restrict our purchases to US produced goods is laughable.

    Not only that, but in the case where foreign goods are superior, there's an argument that we should not be subsidizing inferior design & construction. (That one's going to get me in trouble with a few of you, I'm sure.)

    It's not just a question of cheap labor that put Japanese car manufacturers at the top of the heap compared to, say, the American Motors/Jeep/Eagle/AMC/Dodge/Chrysler/Daimler-Chrysler mess. Not to mention the mindset in Detroit that has "steered" us to SUV's and Vans when the rest of the world has been headed to micro-mini's.

    - J.
  • Squarejaw

    Posts: 1035

    Jan 23, 2008 8:04 PM GMT
    I'm going to dig back into my graduate work in economics and remind Bernanke that the trade deficit is closely linked to the budget deficit, and we can't fix the first until we fix the second.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 23, 2008 8:14 PM GMT
    I think the whole concept is a little.. too little too late. Probably anything could be positive, but this should have been the discussion in October or November.
    Squarejaw is also correct. So much for the fiscally convervative Republicans..

    ...oh yeah, thats right, there has been a war....
    thats also the result of a Republican...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
    HK, actually there are numerous charts around which you can google for. As far as dem/rep presidents go, the trend is that the repugnicans increase our debt and deficit, and the demokitties slow, halt, or reverse that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:39 PM GMT
    Squarejaw saidI'm going to dig back into my graduate work in economics and remind Bernanke that the trade deficit is closely linked to the budget deficit, and we can't fix the first until we fix the second.


    Imagine that! Ya think running up the biggest debt in history could POSSIBLY have something to do with it?

    Not to mention allowing the banking industry to essentially self-regulate, creating and marketing fairly dangerous loans. Remember the margin mess that lead to the stock market crash and the Great Depression? Sounds like the same thing all over again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:39 PM GMT
    Bernanke is generally regarded by financial pundits as a hack who investors have little confidence in. Surprise...another schmuck Bush appointee.

    Now back to y'all's thoughtful replies.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:45 PM GMT
    PSBigJoey said
    Not to mention allowing the banking industry to essentially self-regulate, creating and marketing fairly dangerous loans. Remember the margin mess that lead to the stock market crash and the Great Depression? Sounds like the same thing all over again.


    Margin calls were only a part of the problem. Crude conflicts of interest were at the heart of the 1929 crisis, and they are at the heart of it today. Remember Enron? The auditors were also the consultants? The Glass-Steagall act was the cure for that, and that was repealed in 1998, under, um...................................................................................................
    .........................................................................Bill Clinton, the DINO (Democrat In Name Only).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:47 PM GMT
    This is laughable. It's CRAP with a capital C.

    They're all going to Wal-Mart to buy that TV they've always wanted.

    Let's get real.

    Typical ignorance of the RR and the GOP.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jan 23, 2008 8:47 PM GMT
    The important thing about any stimulus package is that the cash go to folks that will turn right around and spend it, thus boosting the economy. All this "giving us back more of our own money" crap is just that - crap. Giving a tax cut or rebate to those who will use it to pay down debt or put it in savings does nothing for the economy, but it does plenty for the Republican party with its own contsituency.

    These sort of targeted rebates need to go to the poorest of the poor. It is my hope that the negotiations going on right now in DC are to ensure that those folks on public assistance of some sort don't get their benefits cut because of receiving this check...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:53 PM GMT
    Fix the national debt... how hard can that be.... well when your invoking 9/11 every other minute and the need for a strong military then you can't. Reduce the military, war is our biggest expense.

    And as for buying american, well sorry, I'm going to buy what works. There's a reason Zenith went kaput. Foreign products are in many cases not only cheaper but better quality then what we produce.

    You can't even tell much today. A Honda Civic is more american than a Ford Edge, Fusion, or a Chevy Impala. Hell the Camry is more american than the Fusion.... Buy American lol icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2008 8:54 PM GMT
    It'd be tough to buy American even if you tried. Like PSBigJoey said, there aren't too many products anymore that are 100% made in any given country. Go to the StillMadeinUSA website. One company there is SubZero/Wolf refrigerators. The factory may be in the US, but what are the chances that every bit of plastic, every bit of metal, every electronic component was 100% made in the US? Pretty close to zero, I'd say. Want to buy an American car? So you go to your GM dealer. Depending on the model you choose, it may very well have been assembled in Canada out of parts sourced all over the world (Canada and the US have had free trade in autos since the 1960s). Maybe you should go to your local Toyota dealer and buy a car "made" in one of their plants in Texas or Kentucky instead.
    The Fed Chairman is a politcal appointment and sometimes politicians say things that sound good, rather than things that are true and useful from a practical point of view.