Bisexual guy speaks out about his observations

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    Jan 28, 2007 7:53 PM GMT
    Hello everyone. For the past several months I have been exploring my sexuality and have learned a few things and I want to see what you guys think about it.

    All of mankind wants to be loved and desired regardless of orientation and gender. Nobody truely wants to be alone.

    Attraction to any single person (male or female) is based upon not only biological factors but also environmental factors (i.e. upbringing, first experiences, etc.). However this attraction almost always stems from some inner biological drive and desire.

    For some there is a level of choice in their own sexuality even though they may be feeling sexual desires that may oppose their choice.

    For some it can be easy to say things like "I chose my sexual orientation" or "I was born that way" but I have observed (through my own experiences and others close to me) that it may not be so 'cut and dry' as we would like it to be. It appears for most people that there is a varying level of choice in the matter (some more so than others).

    I guess this is the ongoing discussion of nature vs. nurture, but these are my observations and I would like to see what you guys have to say about them.
  • ScotXY

    Posts: 117

    Jan 28, 2007 10:18 PM GMT
    Each person has the right to talk about their experinces.

    But its a gay site. I for me was virign till 21. I waitied for the first person and person i knew for little over 16 months to become my first.

    I was growing up i had questions and had to come out to myself. But, I tell ya being selfish and so arrogant to not take care of your own identity sexually before you bring people into your life and lie to them while you do not even know where you stand just screws up a lot of peoples lives. Just because one cant keep the dick in the pants.

    Not saying anyone is perfect. But If guys who are bi. Why are u really bi. I think I have meet maybe 3 -4 people who were truely bi. The rest were of convience. To protect their secrets and other lives.

    A lot of guys also get hurt by people who say they are Bi. Best thing for bi people is to date bi people. At least they know what to expect.

    I relize in the kinsey world no one is perfect gay or straight.

    But, I refuse to support someone who hides behind the veil of straightness and retains all the benefits of that veil while dabblign or having relationship with someone who is gay and living with things that come along with it.

    I personally would NEVER NEVER NEVER choose this to be gay.

    But I am. Nothing can change that.

    So I respect people who are Bi and actually are.

    But .... thats part of the romance / sexuality / being sexual with someone people treat it like its nothing. Treat it cheap. Put no real forethought into what they are doing with that person, nor into the emotional ties and what they do.

    People can debate where the orientation comes from. But in the end we all will belive on what they want. Nothing is going to change that.

    I have ranted enought.

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    Jan 28, 2007 10:54 PM GMT
    I agree with you, Adrian. Both nature and nurture play roles in defining sexuality.

    I never even considered being with a guy before college. I dated (and had sex with) girls through high school and was content with my relationships. College changed many of my perceptions about sexuality and dating.

    I still consider myself bisexual, still identify as such, mostly because, before I dated men, I was in love with a woman for several years. To me, calling myself strictly gay cancels out, nullifies, my relationship with her, like it was only an experiement before I found men. Lame.

    As for Scott's reply, I think you're mixing terms. It sounds like you're saying bisexuals and cheaters are the same. That they should only date other bisexuals so they're prepared for the worst. Cheaters are cheaters. They could be bisexual, straight, gay, whatever. Bisexuality has that annoying stigma: that you'll sleep with anything that moves, no matter what the plumbing. God I hate that. It's like when homophobic men stigmatize gay men, assuming that they'll sleep with anything with a penis. Perceptions and deeper, internal reactions dictate attraction. And bisexuality does not dictate a person's ability to cheat or his or her integrity.
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    Jan 29, 2007 1:58 AM GMT
    For me and this is after being married to woman for 10 years and having 2 wonderful kids. During high school and college i dated both. But I fell for a woman, but all thru our time together I missed something. It came to me one day while I was sitting on the beach checking out both men and women. They both have there good points. But cumming with a man it different than cumming with a woman. I top so I have been able to enjoy alot. With a man there is no guessing if they are having a good time or if it feels good. I have the same equipment I know what feels good. Some say it is the easy way out to date a man. Because it takes the guess work out of sex. I don't feel this is true.
    I think or I should say I know your heart wants what it wants. Some men find another man to be a turn on. Some find woman a turn on. For me it took some time, but I know now that I love the male form more. I can't say I am gay because then my marrage would have been me trying to hide who I am. So I am bi but I lean more towards men. When something feels right you know it with every fiber of your being.
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    Jan 29, 2007 6:41 AM GMT
    I am not absolutely sure about what I am about to write, but I think this is basically correct.

    All fetuses start out with "femininized" brains. The male fetus must stimulate and the mother must respond with the production of androgen hormone to masculinize a male's brain.

    If the fetus for some reason doesn't stimulate the mother or if the mother for some reason does not respond and produce the androgen, then the fetus' brain is not masculinized.

    In the case of a lesbian, the fetus for some reason stimulated the mother to produce androgen or the mother's body did it for some other reason, and the fetus' brain was masculinized.

    Now to the aspect of bisexuality, I think it is conceivable that the process of masculinizing a fetus' brain may be a continuum based on the amount of androgen produced.

    With a full response of androgen, the fetus' brain is fully masculinized and you get a heterosexual male or lesbian. With a total or near total lack of androgen, you get a gay or heterosexual woman.

    With intermediate levels of androgen, you may get fetal brains set to varying degrees of response to sexual stimuli.

    An interesting aspect of all this that I haven't read anything about is concerning the level of masculinization of the fetus' brain in context of the sex hormone that that brain functions in. That is, a non-masculinized gay brain (or still feminized brain) is still awash with testosterone in the man's body. This is has got to cause the brain to function and react differently than a feminized brain in a female body without the level of testosterone.

    And since the brain is actually the body's biggest sex organ, I think we actually have at least 4 sexes: straigth male, gay male, straight female, and gay female....with a continuum between each extreme.

    QED. :-)
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    Jan 29, 2007 1:24 PM GMT
    Just let everyone do what they want to do and be who they want to be!!We'll never get to the bottom of this EVER!!! Why waste time on it!!!! I never wanted to be gay, till I was 24.It was not until I TOTALLY accepted the fact,I was into guys.If I could pick my sexuality,I'd pick straight.I'm glad I can't because the thought of having sex with another woman...yuck haha.
  • imaxim

    Posts: 94

    Jan 29, 2007 6:34 PM GMT
    I don't think Scott was equating bisexuals to cheaters. True bisexuals just aren't on a level playing field with gays--they have more options.

    The overall point was that gay life and dating faces so many more obstacles than heterosexual dating, a gay man may wonder why any bisexual man would bother dating a guy (as opposed to the much easier life he could have with a woman). The more likely scenario is a man who has a relationship with a woman in public, but chooses men for sex in private. It would be difficult for a relationship-oriented gay man to see a future there.

    Another side of this is that there are a lot of gay men who choose the "bisexual" label only because they feel it sets them apart from less masculine gays. It's very similar to bisexual men who consider themselves "straight", or the issues we see with top-bottom-versatile sheepishness... but that's another topic.
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    Jan 30, 2007 3:04 AM GMT
    Hey this is great. Thanks for replying to my post everyone.

    I was wanting to wait for a new digital camera but I guess my camera phone will have to do for the pic, for now.

    I am being honest and open here. I, like horsepower, consider myself bisexual because I have had good relationships with women before. I cannot outright deny that I had good times with them and felt strong feelings for them. If I were to deny that then I would be denying ten years of my life. I also have good women friends who I feel a level of attraction to as well as good guy friends who I feel similar feelings.

    In response to Scots post; I believe in outright monogamy with any relationship of any orientation. Right now I am in a relationship with a guy and it is one that I will cherish. If we do break up I will reach out again to hook up with someone and will stick with that person (male or female depending upon what happens) for as long as the relationship lasts.

    I actually fell victim to some of the stigmas regarding homosexuality earlier in my life. One of which was I thought that homosexuality was a way to be promiscuous wihtout the threat of conception, etc. but in my recent explorations I have found that the GLBT communities are not as promiscuous as societal stigmas paint them to be, but rather their relationships are based upon real feelings for real people.

  • steak2000

    Posts: 19

    Jan 30, 2007 5:05 PM GMT
    the operate trem you sem to all be using is "before". If you dated /had sex with women in the past its just that... your past. If you are and will again date and have sex with a woman then you are bisexual . On the other hand if you are dating men ,have sex with men and fantasize about men now .YOU ARE NOW GAY!. If for some reason the stigma of the term bothers you ..tough. Its now your new life, deal. Sorry to be so rough ...but over all the men who for some reason think that because one time they loved a woman that that makes them not gay now. We were all there once. You were bi when you were doing both at the same time ..but gay if you are only doing men now.
  • steak2000

    Posts: 19

    Jan 31, 2007 12:35 AM GMT
    forgive my typing!
    (operative term it seems...)
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    Feb 02, 2007 10:13 AM GMT
    Late to the thread but a stock response in a way from me. Labels are for Christmas and birthday presents not people. Kinsey was right with his scale. We only use lables so that society recognises where we sit on a scale.

    I dont consider myself bi or gay Im am me and me is a sexual being. Now similar to footbal player I was married for 10 years 7 of which were very happy. I was experimenting happiily with both sexes before I settle with my then partner. But I didnt get no light flashing in my head just screwed up in the end by an opposing person ie sex just wasnt important to them. So when I left I decided to explore more of my gay side and in doing so I happily found the perfect guy for me. What irks me is so many guys I know assume I was in denial and the marriage was a scam and to be honest I just give up trying to get their narrow minded little heads around it. But fact is some people cant, much the same as some straight people just cant accept gay people as its outside of the parameters of their comprehension, it doesnt necessary make them a bad person just a product of their environment.

    Does it mean I will be gay forever? Well I hope so cos I love him very much, Im an endless flirt though with a sexual drive greater than Northwest air's flight roster!, but if I did finish with him where would I go next?

    Well it all depends who comes along at that point, I'd be a liar if I siad I didnt find the easthetics of a body pleasing but I connect far more with the mind than the vessel that carries it.

    I think of it like this, if Angelina Jolie walked in the room and I was there alon and said hey BFG do you fancy a BJ Id be like yeh what the hell go for it. If she walked in tho with Bradd Pitt hmmm he'd get more attention :-)

    Ive always admired a good male physique probably part out of jealousy as I strive to get it but never actualy achieve what I want aint genetics a bitch!

    So be happy with whatever path you chose Im not saying its a phase as I think that is crap but life is all about experiences, some of which you run with all your life and some you dont. Just think of your bestest friend when you started school you thought they would always be that. Some are some are not still. people change, life changes and destiny has a funny hand to deal sometme that takes you on a different path.
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    Feb 02, 2007 1:12 PM GMT
    I seem to be a minority here..unlike alot of you, I understood my attraction to the same sex by the age of 8.Ive have never questioned it nor have I ever regretted or resented how I was created.I realized early on that the lifestyle wasnt an overly accepted one in the universal scope of things, so, like the chameleon, I did what I had to to integrate myself into any sort of lifestyle situation. consequently i have been successful in both home and work because I accepted myself early on and have never apologized for who or what i am- since i had no deliberate part in my creation personally I believed my makeup to be more divine than environmental. I never had to come out- I was never "in". But I never flaunted it in front of the general population- I just never denied it when asked.consequently I have no demons or neuroses to dealwith... well,at least not in relation to my sexual makeup..:-)
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    Feb 02, 2007 2:14 PM GMT
    Its funny, you know, hearing some guys in here comparing themselves and their experiences with others and forming judgements. Its those that speak from the heart about themselves alone that are adding the most to the discussion. Whether you believe Kinsey or any other observation, study, "belief", the fact of the matter stands: You alone are you alone, unique and a precious creation.

    No matter how any of us turned out we each bring our own amazing observation of life as seen from behind our own eyes. No one else can truly understand or experience how I came to be the person I am today. One of the most powerful things I've heard someone say was Oprah (I know... bear with me) on a Barbara Walter's special, speaking about the incest and abuse she endured as a child. Babs asked "Aren't you ashamed of what happened to you?" And Oprah turned, looking Babs in the eye and said "How can I EVER be ashamed of anything that went on in my life. Everything that I experienced made me the person I am today, and I love who I am."

    As for being straight then or bi now, gay now bit bi then, can't say I am gay or I'll call my marriage a sham... listen. We are not static bodies and brains. We change, we adapt, we grow. Brain neurons that aren't used much fade and finally detach. Brain neurons that are used are reinforced. What turned you on before might not now and vice verse. (Watch "What the Bleep Are We Made Of?" and "The Secret", very cool discussions on this)

    I grew up dating women, never married, always felt there was something else going on. But I "couldn't be gay! they walk around carrying purses!" I once said to my brother. But I slowly gathered the clue and when I kissed a man the first time and didn't turn into a turnip I realized that my stereotype didn't have to fit me and I could be gay in my own way. So my brain went through a change and I accepted who I was without a problem. I found men so much more exhilarating than women and being intimate with a man blows away all of the, what I thought were, amazing times with women.

    So does that make me technically "BI"? Or have I "decided" I'm now gay? Can I ever go back to being intimate with women? Hell no. But my appreciation for how beautiful and sexy a woman is hasn't changed. What changed was my preference, not my plumbing. I'm the same person just with new knowledge about what I like and learned practices about making love with men.

    Blah blah blah, I'll end it here with just one more thing. Have respect for yourself no matter where you are in the straight-bi-gay continuum, and no matter where you are in your sexual maturation. And likewise, have respect for others in their search for themselves. Embrace the fact that we are all unique and each of us brings an amazing story to the table. What really matters most is how we love ourselves which allows us to love someone else.
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    Feb 02, 2007 11:39 PM GMT
    I tend to agree with Adrian.

    To offer my own remarks, there have been many studies on sexual orientation and attempts to categorize people (including the well known Kinsey scale). Many suggest it is a spectrum, not a cut and dry, black and white situation.

    Of course there are various states of in-between, confusion, and some legitimate bisexuals who I believe truly are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum of male-female attraction.

    I try not to force people into some binary "gay OR straight" situation. Sure, some people simply declare themselves "bi" as an intermediate step in the coming out process, but I have a few close friends who I believe honestly can go either way. Dating for them becomes more about the person than the gender. It's all a pretty interesting topic.

    What's not interesting is an unfortunate phenomenon faced by some bisexual people: the gay world can be vastly LESS accepting of them than the straight world. I've seen this several times, and it drives me nuts.

    You'd think that people who have dealt with their own sexual orientation would be more open minded, but in my experience, and the experience of a few bisexual friends, there seems to actually be more heterophobia in the gay world, than there is homophobia in the straight world. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for people who have had to defend themselves in both "communities."
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    Jun 09, 2007 5:08 AM GMT
    Well, for ME, I NOW identify as Gay, BECAUSE, I KNOW that I only want to CONNECT with Another Loving Positive Soul Masculine Gay Man. I was Married for 15 years, the second time, the first was a very short year or so. I "felt" in private to myself that I was always Bi, but because of where I grew up, Arkansas, I kept it all to myself, and after Junior High when I had a Knife put to my neck underneath the stairs in the gym and was about to be forced to probably give a blow job - fortunately someone went and got the Coach, who then comes out and looks at me like such a terrible look of judgement -- anyway, that Experience I Feel Really drove me, in part, into the closet and I shut down for the most part that side of my Self, though I still fantasized about a really hot Hairy Bear Teacher I had who was a very nice guy too.
    The Point is, is that I had a great relationship with a woman for 15 years, still friends, had great tantric sex(she once had 13 orgasms in a row, which I did intentionally with my tongue) -- I don't see much difference in actual sex, difference in Technique and different places and parts Require a bit different of type of Attention and working, but, really at the Core its much the same. F---ing is F---ing and I Believe All men have the Bilt in Need to Fuck. All of our Muscles are Designed for it, and they all engage when we do, that's when you get that Unique kind of sweat you only get when you have Hot Heavy Sex, or Love~Making.
    But Once I CAME OUT, and we decided to end the marriage, I KNEW that I only wanted to be with a guy now and not pursue women at all.
    I still see a woman now and again and think she's very attractive - like Selma Hiack (?spelling) --- but I have no desire to even attempt to hook up, connect with them in any way.
    I do find quite often that I'm Energetically drawn to and attracted to straight married men, who fall somewhere near the Zone of the type of guy that turns me on. That said, I would never try and seduce him. It would have to be an open-relationship kind of thing.
    StuMan
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    Jan 29, 2008 4:49 PM GMT
    Looking back on this thread after a year of self exploration I find that my observations still stand and that the labels out there are just too defined to represent the true spectrum of human sexuality. I openly identify as gay because I prefer men sexually and I am seeking a gay relationship. However, I personally view myself as Sexual instead of purly gay or bi.

    I say this now because I struggled with conflicting feelings; I am attracted to all of these men but every now and again I feel an attraction for a woman. To me this was very confusing "Am I Gay? Am I Straight?". I chose to identify as bi a year ago to help calm my confusion and ease my coming out process.

    I now identify as "Sexual with a preference for guys" like what italmusclebtm had to say. He and bfg1 seem to understand what I was trying to say and wrap my mind around when I first started this thread.
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    Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM GMT
    NNJfitandbi saidHey, to all of you above, nobody has it easy, remember that. Get yourselves in a room with a random assortment of people, and you will be glad you're you, no matter how hard you have had it.

    So my advice is not to judge anyone too harshly, eat your veggies, stay outa trouble, save and spend your money wisely, and be the best guys you can be. And stay fit, of course, cause that's the other reason you're on this site.


    I could not have said better than this! Thanks NNJfitandbi!

    I lost my virginity to a female when I was 12. Lost my virginity to a male MUCH later in life. I came out when I was 26. I had girlfriends until I was 24. I find both males and females attractive enough to wanna sleep with both of them; I don't freak out or get grossed out by a woman's anatomy; hell I came out of one!! Anyways, at the end of the day though I prefer to be with a man. So to Adrain as NNJfitandbi stated "eat your veggies, stay outa trouble, save and spend your money wisely, and be the best guys you can be."
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    Apr 15, 2008 7:54 PM GMT
    imaxim saidI don't think Scott was equating bisexuals to cheaters. True bisexuals just aren't on a level playing field with gays--they have more options.

    The overall point was that gay life and dating faces so many more obstacles than heterosexual dating, a gay man may wonder why any bisexual man would bother dating a guy (as opposed to the much easier life he could have with a woman). The more likely scenario is a man who has a relationship with a woman in public, but chooses men for sex in private. It would be difficult for a relationship-oriented gay man to see a future there.

    Another side of this is that there are a lot of gay men who choose the "bisexual" label only because they feel it sets them apart from less masculine gays. It's very similar to bisexual men who consider themselves "straight", or the issues we see with top-bottom-versatile sheepishness... but that's another topic.
    the things you said cant be more correct.i so agree with you.