The Stench of Intolerance in the Middle East

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 04, 2010 9:21 PM GMT
    I was appalled to read that two British people --- a man and a woman --- are being sentenced to jail for kissing in public in Dubai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/04/dubai-jails-kissing-britons

    Why do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?
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    Apr 04, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    A lot of the architecture/planning world is excited about Dubai and its progress as a city. To me it looks like a surreal hell hole. I can just see it being like a giant deserted theme park one day. It baffles me why so many people want to move there.

    Maybe I am missing something, though.
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 05, 2010 12:30 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
    but offshore drilling miles and miles past the coast lines of the 2 biggest consumers of oil (east and west coasts) is still prohibited... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:57 AM GMT
    rnch said
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
    but offshore drilling miles and miles past the coast lines of the 2 biggest consumers of oil (east and west coasts) is still prohibited... icon_rolleyes.gif

    So is burning coal in the furnaces of our energy plants without any emissions controls. We could lift those safeguards against environmental damage, too, and thereby use less Mideast oil, as well. I don't suppose you've heard of yet other options, like energy conservation, and developing clean energy sources? Why must our alternative to Mideast oil be an environmentally unsound one?
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    Apr 05, 2010 2:10 AM GMT
    rnch said
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
    but offshore drilling miles and miles past the coast lines of the 2 biggest consumers of oil (east and west coasts) is still prohibited... icon_rolleyes.gif

    Obama has just approved new drilling off the Virginia coast.
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    Apr 05, 2010 2:13 AM GMT
    Caslon14000 said
    rnch said
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
    but offshore drilling miles and miles past the coast lines of the 2 biggest consumers of oil (east and west coasts) is still prohibited... icon_rolleyes.gif

    Obama has just approved new drilling off the Virginia coast.

    Lol drill baby drill I guess.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 05, 2010 2:24 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    rnch said
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.
    but offshore drilling miles and miles past the coast lines of the 2 biggest consumers of oil (east and west coasts) is still prohibited... icon_rolleyes.gif

    So is burning coal in the furnaces of our energy plants without any emissions controls. We could lift those safeguards against environmental damage, too, and thereby use less Mideast oil, as well. I don't suppose you've heard of yet other options, like energy conservation, and developing clean energy sources? Why must our alternative to Mideast oil be an environmentally unsound one?


    why is it environmentally sound to contiue offshore drilling off the coast lines of texas and louisana but environmentally unsound to have the same offshore drilling off the east and west coasts of our country? the biggest consumers of oil products in our country (east & west coasters) don't want to contribute one drop on the available oil off THEIR coasts but sure do like to guzzle the product!! icon_confused.gif

    LOL @ "energy conservation"...how many HUGE, new or nearly new, gas guzzling vehicles are on the streets of southern florida?

    American citizens pay lip service to conservation; but their buying habits say otherwise.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 05, 2010 2:57 AM GMT
    rnch saidLOL @ "energy conservation"...how many HUGE, new or nearly new, gas guzzling vehicles are on the streets of southern florida?

    American citizens pay lip service to conservation; but their buying habits say otherwise.icon_rolleyes.gif

    You are comparing 2 different things: consumer choice in a free market, versus a regulated energy industry. And those SUVs went unsold when gas prices spiked, helping to bankrupt 2 US car companies, proving that Americans will indeed practice conservation, when the conservation is the money in their own pocketbooks.

    And because of the national interest in lowering oil consumption, to prevent the early depletion of reserves, reduce US dependence on foreign oil, and to lessen the chance of shortages at the pump, the government continues to impose increasingly tough vehicle mileage standards, as it has since the 1970s. SUVs will have to attain good gas mileage, or else go the way of the dinosaurs, making the point about buying habits irrelevant.
  • rnch

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    Apr 05, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
    i notice no comments made about the Conspicious Consumption of gasoline and heating oil by the heavy users on the east and west coasts of our country, the very same people who recoil in horror at any mention of offshore drilling for oil off THEIR coastlines.....icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 05, 2010 4:55 PM GMT
    Back to the topic:

    Arab women's rights
    Some say they don't want them
    The battle goes on, though men often object—and sometimes women too
    http://www.economist.com/world/middle-east/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15774358
    THE sight of hundreds of women cheering a proposed law banning child marriage, as they did on March 22nd in the Yemeni capital, Sana’a, was hardly amazing. No country has escaped the global trend towards greater equality between the sexes, not even one as poor and tradition-bound as Yemen, where half of girls are married off before the age of 18 and many even before the age of 10. Yet the day before that demonstration even more women (pictured right), nearly all wearing full face veils, gathered at the same spot to denounce the law as an imposition of unIslamic, Western values.

    In the relatively liberal and rich emirate of Kuwait, for instance, women got the right to vote five years ago and won their first seats in parliament last year. But to get there, reformists found themselves battling not only against apathy among many women but even deep-seated female hostility. By contrast Syria, long secular under the Baath party’s rule, denies political rights without sexual discrimination. But veiling and other forms of pious ostentation among women have recently returned, largely because of groups such as the Qubaysiyat, an all-female Islamist society which has schools, nurseries and mosques that now attract many of the Syrian elite.

    Egyptian women, who fought to drop their veils in the 1920s and have voted since 1956, have made very slow progress ever since. Many retain deeply traditional outlooks. A survey in 2009 of 15,000 Egyptian youths, for instance, found that 67% of female respondents believe that a husband is justified in beating his wife if she speaks to another man. By contrast, a recent initiative by Egypt’s government to appoint female judges roused little general protest. But fellow members of Egypt’s ostensibly secular judiciary have proved harder to convince. Last month some 334 out of 380 judges on the state council, a grand body that adjudicates cases between individuals and the state, voted against accepting female members. The matter is still pending. Egypt’s supreme court has now ruled in favour of women judges but deferred a final decision to yet another all-male panel.

    So the bigger share of blame for Arab women’s slow progress still lies with the usual suspects, namely men. Saudi Arabia recently ruled that female lawyers may actually appear in court. But the concession was heavily qualified. Women will be able only to represent women—and only in family cases.

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    Apr 05, 2010 5:02 PM GMT
    Things will never change until people start using religious laws to govern themselves instead of other people OR until the filth that is religion is banished from the planet.
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    Apr 05, 2010 11:06 PM GMT
    This is where I point and laugh when the headlines read...

    Dubai's $18 billion investment in a diamond shaped, gold encrusted motel 6 attracts $1 million of guests in 2009 icon_twisted.gif
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    Apr 05, 2010 11:41 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidI was appalled to read that two British people --- a man and a woman --- are being sentenced to jail for kissing in public in Dubai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/04/dubai-jails-kissing-britons

    Why do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?


    Making money tops human rights EVERY time.

    If we could prove to the GOP that "gay marriage" is good business, we would have been allowed to marry 30 years ago.
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    Apr 05, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidI was appalled to read that two British people --- a man and a woman --- are being sentenced to jail for kissing in public in Dubai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/04/dubai-jails-kissing-britons

    Why do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?


    Capitalism = Greed = Selective Ethics / Selective Values
    Religion = Intolerance / Hate / False Beliefs
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    Apr 05, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    rnch saidi notice no comments made about the Conspicious Consumption of gasoline and heating oil by the heavy users on the east and west coasts of our country, the very same people who recoil in horror at any mention of offshore drilling for oil off THEIR coastlines.....icon_rolleyes.gif

    The coastal elites have a holier-than-thou mentality that loves to condescend to us environmental barbarians in Texas and Louisiana. Massachusetts won't even allow wind farms, much less oil rigs, to spoil the view from Hyannisport.
    But they've got no problem driving or powering their appliances with our oil.
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    Apr 06, 2010 12:00 AM GMT
    having lived in Dubai, let me tell you that's just unfortunate politics for that couple, everyone holds hands and sneaks kisses its not a big deal really. no1 seems to say anything about gays who roam around holding Prada bags and working in the management or frontlines for state owned firms.
  • Tritimium

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    Apr 06, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    Tiger (OP), I'm gonna be controversial for once! You can argue with me over coffee, lol.

    Yes, it would seem mighty crazy to us (and me) that a couple - a STRAIGHT couple at that - were jailed for kissing in public. However, they were told which areas of Dubai they could and could not do this, and chose to ignore the rules - and so face the consequences. That's the secondary point to my post.

    My main point is that, whilst it does seem a crazy thing to have a rule about, we really have no right to comment on what is a completely different culture to ours. Would it not seem mighty crazy to the residents of Dubai that British girls are having babies at 16 and younger, and that a major preoccupation of the British public is to effectively poison ourselves with too much alcohol every Friday (with the attendant problems that entails), given the Islamic viewpoint that the body is not ours to abuse?
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    Apr 06, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.


    Not Dubai!
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    Apr 06, 2010 12:25 AM GMT
    rnch saidi notice no comments made about the Conspicious Consumption of gasoline and heating oil by the heavy users on the east and west coasts of our country, the very same people who recoil in horror at any mention of offshore drilling for oil off THEIR coastlines.....icon_rolleyes.gif


    The solution is to change the consumption habits, not to drill.
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    Apr 06, 2010 1:24 AM GMT
    viveutvivas said The solution is to change the consumption habits, not to drill.

    The solution is not some masochistic penitentialism. The solution is investment in alternate energy technologies. Just as the Luddites didn't have constructive answers to the problems of the Industrial Revolution, freezing in the dark isn't a viable option for climate change.
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    Apr 06, 2010 5:07 AM GMT
    viveutvivas said
    Red_Vespa said
    TigerTim saidWhy do we continue to do business with these intolerant, misogynistic and rotten regimes?

    They have us over a barrel -- an oil barrel.


    Not Dubai!


    True, Dubai wasn't built on oil but on its strategic importance as a trade port.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 06, 2010 5:29 AM GMT
    viveutvivas said
    rnch saidi notice no comments made about the Conspicious Consumption of gasoline and heating oil by the heavy users on the east and west coasts of our country, the very same people who recoil in horror at any mention of offshore drilling for oil off THEIR coastlines.....icon_rolleyes.gif


    The solution is to change the consumption habits, not to drill.
    " yeh, i see a LOT of consumption habits being done in your home town of boston. (NOT!!)///but gawd forbid, any drilling off THAT coastline.....icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Iluros

    Posts: 559

    Apr 06, 2010 5:29 AM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    viveutvivas said The solution is to change the consumption habits, not to drill.

    The solution is not some masochistic penitentialism. The solution is investment in alternate energy technologies. Just as the Luddites didn't have constructive answers to the problems of the Industrial Revolution, freezing in the dark isn't a viable option for climate change.


    I think it's reasonable to conclude that solution is both, not one or the other. Consumption as it is will be unsustainable, and it's increasing. Americans on average have a way more elaborate lifestyle than any society in history, and this lifestyle is spreading to other cultures. Investing in new energy technology alone will eventually not be enough to combat exponential increases in consumption. It's the same Malthusian problem.
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    Apr 06, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    And this is why I most probably not visit Dubai anytime soon if ever.

    And some friends (who I am out to) wonder why I refuse to even listen about that "westernized" university in Saudi Arabia... now, that's the stuff nightmares are made of.