The Dalai Lama is Not Gay-Friendly But Is Open To Change

  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    Apr 05, 2010 4:57 AM GMT
    The Dalai Lama is Not Gay-Friendly

    http://nihilobstat.info/2009/08/10/the-dalai-lama-is-not-gay-friendly/


    a better article:
    "According to Buddhist Tradition": Gays, Lesbians and the Definition of Sexual Misconduct

    http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1977


    [quote]
    The Dalai Lama encouraged the seven of us and others to hold conferences on Buddhism and sexuality and other pressing concerns, including Tibetan Buddhist full-ordination of women as nuns. Although the Dalai Lama opposed violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation, he did not commit himself to helping correct harmful Buddhist teachings still on the books-including the conduct codes which can fuel homophobic behavior among Buddhist teachers and students. Famous for saying, "When science points to or proves a truth contrary to Buddhist teaching, then Buddhist teaching must change," he said as we were leaving his suite, "Changing Buddhist traditions will be much harder than advocating for your human rights."

    [/quote]
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    Apr 05, 2010 11:48 AM GMT
    metta8 saidThe Dalai Lama is Not Gay-Friendly

    http://nihilobstat.info/2009/08/10/the-dalai-lama-is-not-gay-friendly/

    Well at least the religious intolerance is spreading to the Eastern Sphere. At least you guys are consistent.
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:00 PM GMT
    i wouldn't read too much into that article. just because he doesn't support anal sex doesn't mean much. buddhists don't kill bugs either.

    buddhism is more of a way of thinking than a religion. one thing that struck me in that article is this:

    the Dalai Lama nevertheless persists in considering the natural expressions of gay and lesbian physical love as “wrong,” “unwholesome,” a “bad action,” and as “vices.”


    buddhists don't typically use the word "wrong." "bad action" is more like it. i'm guessing there was something lost in the translation. i'd bet lots of money he didn't use the word "wrong." it is much different in meaning from the other words cited there.

    even the buddha was against homosexuality. but the buddha likely would have recognized the love between two people of the same sex and seen that ultimately the sexual expression between the two was secondary to the larger picture. gays have historically been associated with the sex act more than anything else. gay = anal sex. but we all know it is a lot more than that...and buddha would understand. so would jesus.

    and i would agree that anyone who attaches to sex as the be all and end all of their happiness is cruisin' for a bruisin'. sex is transient, relationships are eternal. i think that is what the dalai lama was saying.

    i also take issue with your title to this thread: the lama is not "anal-sex" friendly, but he does appear to be very gay friendly. don't make the same mistake our gay-hating friends make...being gay does not equate to anal sex, any more than it equates to track lighting or having the complete "i love lucy" on DVD.
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:02 PM GMT
    Kind of old news, but, the day I hear of a concerted effort by Buddhists to deny gay people their due, I'll feel concerned. There is no equivalency between the Dopey Lama's personal view and the institutional demonization of gays in other religions/lifestyles. Dopey pretty much acknowledges with his "I don't know", that Buddha didn't pontificate on the morality of homosexual sex (unless the Buddha did and the top monk just doesn't know it).
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:04 PM GMT
    What do the words Dalai Lama mean (besides being a title)?
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:10 PM GMT
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama

    "Ocean Leader"
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:13 PM GMT
    rangard saidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama

    "Ocean Leader"

    Huh? ... they live in the fucking mountains! ... icon_eek.gif ... icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 05, 2010 12:31 PM GMT
    Caslon14000 said
    rangard saidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama

    "Ocean Leader"

    Huh? ... they live in the fucking mountains! ... icon_eek.gif ... icon_lol.gif


    if you read further down in the article, the translation of dalai lama can also be translated "ocean teacher," meaning his teaching is as great as the ocean.

    btw, it is also interesting to note that westerners call him "his holiness," but that isn't exactly what he considers himself. again, his gay-friendliness and his teachings about sexuality lose a little bit in the translation AND if you aren't really schooled in buddhism, you may unintentionally read into his words christian ideas and western thinking.

    there is a saying in buddhism: "if you meet the buddha on the road, kill him." what it means is that no man, even the incarnate buddha, can tell you how to live your life. if you meet the buddha on the road and are tempted to have him tell you how to live your life, you are better off killing him than having him lead you off your own path...THAT is a sure ticket back to the cycle of suffering.

    that idea is so different than the christian one, where christians mourn every year about this time that they "killed" jesus and feel terrible about it. (even though, according to them, he HAD to die...but never mind that). evangelicals, in fact, are all about having someone else tell them how to live. they relish in it...because, according to them, if left to their own devices, they'd fuck everything in sight and be drunk doing it. icon_eek.gif

    icon_biggrin.gif
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Apr 05, 2010 2:58 PM GMT
    Dalai lama is a Buddist monk. As it is , he is a religionous figure. No religion in the world (as far as I know), permitted and accepted gay people.
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    Apr 05, 2010 3:11 PM GMT
    Never liked that guy.
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    Apr 05, 2010 3:19 PM GMT
    zakariahzol saidDalai lama is a Buddist monk. As it is , he is a religionous figure. No religion in the world (as far as I know), permitted and accepted gay people.


    Actually that`s not true.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality
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    Apr 05, 2010 3:20 PM GMT
    terryf saidNever liked that guy.


    same here.. well, indifferent would be more exact.
    He's just a rather old man breaking into silly laughter over stupid details whenever he's interviewed.
    He just wants his castle and privileges back icon_rolleyes.gif

    for the rest, him or the pope or some ayatollah ,
    as we say in french : bonnet blanc, blanc bonnet.- tis all the same.
  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    Apr 05, 2010 5:20 PM GMT
    a better article:
    "According to Buddhist Tradition": Gays, Lesbians and the Definition of Sexual Misconduct

    http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1977


    [quote]
    The Dalai Lama encouraged the seven of us and others to hold conferences on Buddhism and sexuality and other pressing concerns, including Tibetan Buddhist full-ordination of women as nuns. Although the Dalai Lama opposed violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation, he did not commit himself to helping correct harmful Buddhist teachings still on the books-including the conduct codes which can fuel homophobic behavior among Buddhist teachers and students. Famous for saying, "When science points to or proves a truth contrary to Buddhist teaching, then Buddhist teaching must change," he said as we were leaving his suite, "Changing Buddhist traditions will be much harder than advocating for your human rights."

    [/quote]
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    Apr 05, 2010 5:24 PM GMT
    the dalai lama
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    Apr 05, 2010 5:34 PM GMT
    pope benedict xvi
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    Apr 05, 2010 6:06 PM GMT
    Tell me!  Iz btm or top???
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Apr 05, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    Never liked the guy for oh so many reasons.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Apr 05, 2010 7:37 PM GMT
    maybe he'll be reincarnated as a drag queen
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    Apr 05, 2010 7:58 PM GMT
    I'm sure you're able to find a lot of gay friendly buddhists. times and views will change, and the Dalai Lama isn't representative of Buddhism as a whole. Buddhist sects can be just as diverse and different as christian sects.
    As far as I know Lamaism is quite different from the main lines in buddhism.

    on a side note, there's now a majority of priests in the Danish Peoples Church who support a gay marriage, go figure.

    even religious views will change in time.
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    Apr 05, 2010 8:17 PM GMT
    and in other news the Pope is a Catholic.

    I was not aware, however, that buddhists have spent large amounts of money trying to stop marriage equality, or that they form right wing organisations which use the word Family in a sinister way.
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    Apr 05, 2010 8:36 PM GMT
    If all is illusion here on the material plane of existence, what difference does it make?
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    Apr 05, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    I care not of what he thinks :i
  • carew28

    Posts: 658

    Apr 05, 2010 9:45 PM GMT
    Several of the Popes were themselves gay. Pope Julius III appointed his teenage boyfriend (Innocenzo DelMonte) a Cardinal.
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    Apr 05, 2010 9:54 PM GMT
    this just bummed me out....
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    Apr 05, 2010 10:16 PM GMT
    The Dalai Lama is not analogous to the pope. He is head of one sect of Buddhism, the Gelug sect of Tibetan Buddhism. He does not stand for every Buddhist. He is also, of course, regarded as exiled head of the Tibetan government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama)

    I have rarely encountered homophobia in the American Buddhist community. It's also important to understand that there is almost a cognitive dissonance among many eastern spiritual teachers who come to the west.

    A friend used to visit a teacher in Germany frequently with his boyfriend. The teacher, female, used to serve them breakfast in bed. Then, one day, she was asked to participate in another couple's same-sex marriage ritual and announced that she could not condone it.

    To me, this is only a problem if you buy the whole "enlightened being" BS. These are often very gifted people but not immune from their own cultural conditioning, so they undergo a learning process. The teacher recanted her position eventually, just as my understanding is that the Dalai Lama has given the subject more compassionate thought instead of reducing it to use of the "wrong holes."